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Ilaiyaraja before and after 1987.

Topic started by Viswanath S. (@ webgate6.mot.com) on Thu Mar 26 23:55:06 EST 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

I have this feeling that there was a marked change (drop ?) in Ilaiyaraja's music sometime in early 1987. And it has not attained that magic ever since. Comments ...

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Viswanath S. (@ 129.188.33.200) on: Mon Mar 30 08:05:56 EST 1998
  
  The question of whether there has been a drop, I agree, is a matter of opinion. But the main point here is : Has anyone ever felt a change in the music style (it probably is VERY subtle, but I feel it is extremely significant all the same) ? My personal experience is that the change seemed to be rather abrupt and seemed to strike to me as very prominent.
  The details of the orchestration patterns before and after the period have been given only to make it as clear as I can in words about what I felt is the change...
  
  
• From: Sankaran C.B. (@ webgate6.mot.com) on: Tue Mar 31 03:02:11 EST 1998
  
  Hello everyone,
  Let me introduce myself as a rather discerning observer of indian film music.Thamizh being my mother tongue,thamizh film music is what I have spent the maximum amount of time listening to.I first happened to hear Raja's music with a serious ear sometime in 80.Ever since,he has never failed to stun me with his compositions.Let me come to Viswa's query.All along Raja has given us a very distinctive kind of music.A brand of music which was not just different,but superior and more wholesome
  than the others.I admit that the terms I have used are not very descriptive,but music is all intuitive to the listener who is not formally trained,but thrives on kelvi-gnyanam.One of these distinctive features that Raja had was his percussion.Be it the thabala,mrudangam or drums,he was very different from MSV,Shankar-Ganesh etc., of the pre-1987 era.Of particular interest are the thabala and drums.The thabala(&dholak combination) he used had an ethereal quality.It had an all-too-metallic tone and the bass component was noticably on a high.This second attribute,I could never find in other MDs all over india including LP,RDB,Chakravarthy,Devarajan(malayalam) etc.,This high bass component made it a pleasure to hear Raja's thabala.(For eg.,I suggest the thabala bit in th punnagai mannan song kavithai kelungal,the
  Udaya geetham song "udaya geetham" etc.,).What I am trying to drive in is the thabala that was so unique to Raja's orchestration underwent a metamorphosis around 87.I think the song "madurai marikkozhundhu vaasam" in Enga Ooru Paattukkaran is in particular a cornerstone.This song ushered in a new era where Raja's percussion was to change forever.I would like to cite the song "Poovukku poovaana" in Anand which came in this post-87 era.The percussion used in this song was so much non-Rajauesque that I thought at the time "What a pity?Why has Raja shed the prod gem(percussion) in his crown???!!!).As it turned out,the thabala was just one of the changes Raja was bringing in.I would like to hear from you all as to what you think about this.I would like to talk more on this subject.
  
  Sankaran
  
  
• From: bs (@ www1.access.bt.com) on: Wed Apr 1 10:28:09 EST 1998
  
  Ravi:
  >vide BS's comments.
  Ravi, yen perai ippadi repair pannitteengale:-))))
  Intha threadla naan oru posting kooda panlaye... Appadi yenna than sonnennu onnume puriyala:-)))Ethavathu explanation kudungo:-)))
  
  Viswa:
  Enakku vazhapazham onnum kudukka venam:-))) Kallala adikkama iruntha sari:-)))
  
  Digression as usual by,
  BS
  
  
• From: Ravi (@ hope.cs.umass.edu) on: Wed Apr 1 14:33:18 EST 1998
  
  BS: romba sorry. I meant Bhaskar.. He too had pointed out that IR fans wil pounce on Viswa.
  
  
• From: mannAru (@ ns.arraycomm.com) on: Thu Apr 2 00:50:09 EST 1998
  
  gopal:
  
  BayangaramA statisticslam kudhuthu thAkkureenga!
  UNgaludaya listukku kudos! AnAl idhu mattumalla
  101 days OdAdha padangalilum IR gave
  hittAna pAdalhal. e.g. devadhai.
  
  IMO, i don't see any change in IR's style
  other than no. of movies per year and
  improvement in recording quality and mixing.
  
  (Digression: May be ARR's influence? I wonder myself why IR did
  not concentrate on recording quality earlier?
  try to listen, ninaivellam nitya. great songs,
  poor recording. We discussed this many times)
  
  mannAru
  
  
• From: mannAru (@ ns.arraycomm.com) on: Thu Apr 2 00:51:11 EST 1998
  
  sorry for my thanglish!
  
  mannAru
  
  
• From: pal (@ x101-145-87.unreg.umn.edu) on: Thu Apr 2 15:06:00 EST 1998
  
  If it might interest you guys...
  IR's mother passed out around '87. Will it make any difference...?
  
  
• From: Viswanath S. (Viswa) (@ 129.188.33.200) on: Thu Apr 2 23:23:46 EST 1998
  
  Pal, I was trying to think along those lines too... One reason why this incident might have been a factor is because he was declining to work on quite a few films at that time (That was also the reason for his fall-out with a lot of directors and producers).
  
  
• From: easwaran hariharan (@ ww-tj05.proxy.aol.com) on: Sat Apr 4 00:36:57 EST 1998
  
  Here is my thoery.
  1. After 1987 ( or in late 80s) no of hummbale
  IR songs were few compard to earlier years.
  He was trying some un-hummbale complex nos or
  his passion for hummable tunes were gone. This
  is one of the main reason.
  
  e.hari
  
  
• From: nakkeeran (@ inet21.us.oracle.com) on: Tue Dec 29 17:50:42 EST 1998
  
  This is when more and more of village based stories started flooding TF industry, thanks to our great Pasunesan Ramarajan. Mebbe raja was pissed of with the same situations again and again, and that explains what caused the change. But one must agree he gave great songs to Ramarajan movies. All IMO.
  
  
• From: aruvi (@ spc-isp-tor-uas-75-72.sprint.ca) on: Tue Dec 29 18:08:59 EST 1998
  
  I think that a lot of good songs came out only during 1987 to 1991. Before that his songs had lots of instruments clashing together. Like 'machana paarthingala' from Annakili. The instruments were all on top of each other. Very irratating. After 1987, he started to divide music up well. What do you all think?
  
  
• From: Shanmugam Murugappan (@ 208.236.83.6) on: Tue Dec 29 21:33:26 EST 1998
  
  
  Aruvi,
  
  You maybe right. But when I think of IR the songs that spring to my mind were mostly released before 1987 or to be more specific, in the early 80s. Let me list some of his albums before 1987.
  
  1) Alaigal oyvadhillai
  2) Payanangal mudivadhillai
  3) Udhaya Geedham
  4) Sindhu Bhairavi
  5) Nizhalgal
  6) Pudhiya Vaarpugal
  7) Pagal Nilavu
  8) Kaadhal oviyam
  9) Udhirippookkal
  10) Moondram pirai
  
  I will definitely say these albums were much better than the ones released after 1987 like 'Dalapathy' and 'Guna'. But, when talking about BGM, I would pick IR after 1987 as my choice. It certainly is much better than his earlier ventures.
  
  
• From: Shankar (@ webgate0.mot.com) on: Tue Dec 29 23:23:30 EST 1998
  
  Shanmugam,
  I second ur opinion.
  
  Raja's BGM keeps improving with every movie he scores music for.
  
  Yeah, if i want to introduce IR songs to somebody who hasn't heard him before, i'll surely make him listen to those pre-87 gems first.
  
  
• From: Ram (@ 206.103.12.118) on: Wed Dec 30 11:01:19 EST 1998
  
  Here are some of my all-time favourites:
  
  1) marupadiyum
  2) guna
  3) dhalapathi
  4) mOga mul
  5) aranmanaikkili
  6) yejaman
  7) avathAram
  
  And plenty of 1 or 2 songs from a movie - like vanaja-girija (munnam seitha thavam...),
  rAjavin pArvayile (amman kovil ellAmE...), chandralEkha (arumbum thalirE...),
  rAsA magan (kAthirunthEn thaniyE...), amadhippadai (solividu vellinilavE...) etc
  ......I couldn't recollect the Movie Name but the songs are :
  - marudhAni chAreduththu..
  - nAnondru kEttal tharuvAyA...
  
  All these movies are after 1987.
  
  I don't see any different rAjA. Ofcourse, only in late eighties and in recent times, he has given more songs with good lyrics in male/female solos. (generally pathos/philosophic). I am pointing this fact particularly because, lot of such songs helped me to get peace whenever I faced personal problems in life. (This kind of involvement, I can not even imagine in other contemporary MDs music)
  
  So, for me, his songs are not only for just Music. At times it is more than that.
  
  Another example I can quote is - rAjAvin ramanmAlai. His early two albums in this category are - ilaiyarAjAvin geethavazhipAdu and geethanjali. Though I like these two albums also so much, I would rate RR as my favourite. One of the reaqsons is the lyrics. I'll get more involved!!
  
  So, IMO, rAjA is from 1977(?) to .......as long as he composes.
  
  
• From: Shanmugam Murugappan (@ 208.236.83.16) on: Wed Dec 30 15:21:14 EST 1998
  
  Shankar,
  
  IR songs kaetkaadhavanga yaaraavadhu irukkaangalaa? Indiala kandippa avar isaya kaetkaadhavanga irukka maattanga. Adhaan, ulagam fulla avar isai paravi irukkae. North Indiala avar isaya kaetkaadhavanga kooda andha MDs paatta kaettiruppaanga. Adhu endirundhu vandhadhu. IR paattilaerndhu suttadhu dhaanae. Just joking.
  
  Ram,
  
  Of course, the musical quality of IR is the same from "Annakkili" to "Kaadhal Kavidhai", and he will continue to remain the same. But, when talking about BGM he has certainly improved a lot from his maiden venture. Compare BGM in "Annakili" with his next film and that with his next. You will certainly find that he has improved very much. That is the true quality of a MD. BGM improving with each film. I don't know why, but as far as his songs are concerned, I like his songs before 1987, especially early 1980s. They are not just songs but something above that. I don't know how to explain but there is something in those songs which I feel are missing in today's IR songs.
  
  Everytime I hear the song "putham pudhu kaalai" ('Alaigal Oyvadhillai'), my love and affinity to hear that song again increases. Similar is the case for "Germanyin sendhaen malarae" ('Ullaasa Paravaigal') and so many other songs. But, that is not the case with "ennai thaalaatta varuvaalo". Even though both are very good songs, I find something in the former which I find missing in the latter. I find this in no other songs after 1987 and even songs before IR, except for a few. This is IMO.
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.23.228) on: Wed Dec 30 18:24:16 EST 1998
  
  shanmugam,
  i find no difference between 'ennulle ennulle' in valli and 'ilamayenum poongaatru' in pagalil oru iravu musically or otherwise.in spite of that
  u find something missing, then probably the 'nostalgia' factor comes into play. we always tend to associate some happenings in our life with those early 80's songs which makes cherish them.
  but in spite of this i have been to appreciate good songs of IR as well as i appreciate the early 80 songs.
  
  
• From: Shanmugam Murugappan (@ 208.236.83.6) on: Wed Dec 30 19:09:59 EST 1998
  
  Vijay,
  
  You are right. Both the songs were tuned for more or less a similar situation and both were great songs. But even in this case I find "ilamai ennum poongkatru" song more impressive. Of course, "ennulle ennulle" song is very good. Even after so much years I am able to appreciate the tune of "ilamai ennum poongkatru" while I remembered "ennulle... ennulle" song only after you said. This is not to say that "Valli" song is not as good as "Pagalil oru Iravu" song. But after you made me remember "Valli" song I told myself, "Oh yes... What a wonderful song!!!". "ennulle... ennulle" is equivalent to any IR song of the early 80s. Maybe, I am more attached to those early 80 songs. But, anyway, I feel that IR gave more melodies in early 80s than in the early 90s.
  
  

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