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Mumbai Moham - What do Tamils put up with the bad and mediocre singing of Mumbai artistes?

Topic started by Indhu (@ 24.76.127.63) on Sat Dec 1 22:44:28 EST 2001.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

This is my question....Udit Narayan, Hariharan, Sadhana Sargam, Kavitha Krishnamurti,Sonu Nigam - All sing in Tamil. But their Tamil is really very bad. Are Tamils deaf, tolerant, or have no PERUMAI in their own language? Is there really a shortage of good, tamil-speaking singers? Or is this really Tamil Inferiority Complex?

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Fliflo (@ 146.186.113.218) on: Tue Dec 4 12:36:26 EST 2001
  
  "The topic of this thread zeroes in on one specific aspect of current tamil music in films. I wonder why you thought this was going to be an all-out, general discussion on "culture" is general??"
  
  I think you're still not getting it..I have clearly, very, very clearly express my feelings on how one depends on other.It is like you want to discuss about tamil film music, without wanting to know the essence of what brought us to this situation. It is more like eating adn praising "J(G)ilebi" withoutattempting to know the origin of it. All I said, if you take them positively, was you need to have a broader view than just in each and every post concluding to "Ok we know and let's go for it.."
  
  Well whatever I gave was my thoughts. I just pointed out that you have to have a more broader view even if your discussion is more specific to one problem. I feel almost all the contributions (excluding mine) seem to be good. What is point in telling oh yes! that prounounciation is good or bad or stylish. That is just an observation. That has been here and going on for a long time. You don't want to put your leg on "commercial, cultural aspects" of it and you want to have a solution. Well, all I said was the discussion is too premature to converge to any decision. Do you preactically think you can stop Alka ot KK or SS singing. Do you discuss the problem of their likers. Even then, the problem is not trivial. Are you against their pronounciation or their origin or their voice? Your topic title just says mediocre, bad singing. And you ask do tamils have perumai on their language etc..etc.. You keep saying the problem is trivial but when you bring in other issues like are tamils deaf, inferiority complex etc..etc..yes it is more complex and non-trivial.
  
  In the course, you keep orchestrated that malaylis, bengalis and other language people are better and we have to adopt their strategy. Can you go broader and explain people about what you say?
  
  "I get a sense that you have more of a problem with me than the topic at hand."
  
  I don't know you and anything about you. Quote and example from my writngs that I had a personal problem with you. Do you see any sense in that accusation? Just being nasty about your arguments do not any way mean that it is personal. As I told a discussion is just a discussion. If you're interested in truth-finding (again relative) get into it. "Without going deeper into sea you can not fetch precious pearls"
  
  I did not start this topic for people to like/dislike me.
  
  Take my words, there is no reason to like or dislike you. Whether is "Indhu" or "Chandru" matter less for me..
  
  
• From: Indhu (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Tue Dec 4 13:12:18 EST 2001
  
  Thanks for your comments Fliflo. I find them to be very enlightening. Your writing and the points you make are lucid and distilled. I look forward to more of your non-trivial postings.
  
  Indhu (Or Chandru, or Yendhru - take your pick)
  
  
• From: Thoduvaanam (@ 198.199.168.30) on: Tue Dec 4 14:11:45 EST 2001
  
  Nice topic guys,
  
  I vividly remember the number of times I have to listen Udit Narayan part of "Kaadhalikkum Pennin" from Kaadhalan. I bet many more would have lost their hair. I dont have to be a cryptologist to understand something in my language. I like the music, I dont see why I shouldnt understand the lyrics.
  
  Did somebody try "CBI Engae" from Poovellam Kettupaar. Jeez, what is wrong with us? Everybody understands Mumbai singers WILL have problems with Tamil. Why make them sing? Are we drained of local talents?
  
  WhyNot - I would like to join issue with you. Maybe I misunderstood you. Americans and British do have a different English accent. I believe it is like Coimbatore Tamil/Madurai Tamil. But that doesnt equate to Udit Narayan/Suckwinder Sing torturing Tamil. It is not just the problem with the accent. If you have a chance, please listen to "Jothi whatever" from 12B. I would love to have a Tamil translation of that song.
  
  
• From: NCR (@ 206.30.30.2) on: Tue Dec 4 14:15:42 EST 2001
  
  Indhu
  
  http://www.telugucinema.com/stars/interviews/devisriprasad.html
  
  This guys is an upcoming MD in telugu. See his views on importing singers. This is a welcoming trend to see among new MD's in telugu. I also appreciate his views on IR,ARR.
  
  Interview by Manisharma which has question on mispronouncitation
  
  http://movies.indiainfo.com/telugu/interviews/manisarma.html
  
  Similarly there was an interview with ARR
  http://newtfmpage.com/forum/13030.22400.00.09.39.html
  in which he replies to the question:
  What about diction? You have used Sukwinder Singh and Udit Narayan extensively in Tamil songs and people have accepted them without reservation?
  
  "Here again I go by what I like. I reason that while people listen to Khaled and not understand a word other than "didi, didi" - does that make it a song in praise of your dear sister?(laughs)- people sitll liked the tune. I guess people liked the happiness in his voice and in listening to the song, they themselves felt happy. Udit was my Khaled to the Tmail industry. And once that clicked in 'Kadhalan', I was encouraged to use him more and more. Once people like the tune, they forgive small transgressions in diction and pronunciation."
  
  
  I think ARR was the main culprit here. He was the one who introduced initially maximum number of new singers from Mumbai more extensively. I feel that he wanted to come of out of traditional SPB-SJ-PS stuff to be different. When he was successful, the other lot followed and it has become a trend. People initially accepted/didnt notice much, but now getting sick of these voices started realising. But what ARR missed while comparing Khalid to Udit is that Udit is singing Tamil not Hindi. People would have appreciated Udit even though they didnt understand Hindi but not Udit singing Tamil without knowing what he is singing. That was a costly mistake made by ARR and others blindly setting as a trend. Sukhvinder Singh was a "Sukh" winder singh for the song Thayya but he is "Suck" winder singh for other songs he sang. I dont think ARR or other MD's realised this.
  
  I personally feel that as long as they are do their job good I dont care who they are. Even I or anybody shouldnt be bothered. KVM though a non telugu MD, he was just good enough that any telugu MD so he was successful and was able to be in industry for more time.
  
  I agree with Fliflo that when I eat G(J)ilebi, I just see whether it is tasting good or not, I dont see who made it.
  
  Thanks
  
  
• From: Indhu (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Tue Dec 4 14:22:19 EST 2001
  
  The idea that there are "Englishes" (australian, carribbean, scottish, irish, indian, singaporean) is a valid truth. However, Tamil does not have the universality of "english." Secondly, ABBA (the swedish group) when they sang in English - had to sing in a universally "accepted" strain of English.
  
  Thoduvaanam makes a very good point. Let's not confuse dialect/regional tamil with faulty tamil or "innovative" (for a positive twist on a very negative trend) tamil. There is something known as "Standard" English. I believe there is something recognised as "Standard" Tamil too!
  
  Send me the translation as well, Thoduvaanam. I'd love to have the line-notes so that I can get the song the next time I hear it!!
  
  
• From: Indhu (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Tue Dec 4 14:43:37 EST 2001
  
  NCR,
  
  Thanks for the posting and all the links. ARR's interview was revealing - he tells us a lot about how he thinks/works/composes/chooses.
  
  One thing puzzles though: Who decides if MDs/Singers are doing a "good" job? What if the MDs/Singers believe they are doing a good job, but a discerning public believes they aren't? How does one measure "Good"? And what if my notion of "good" jarrs with someone else's?
  
  These are pertinent (if not urgent) questions. I am so glad that this topic is drawing out so many diverse viewpoints. It can only lead to a better understanding of the whole issue.
  
  Thanks once again,
  
  Indhu
  
  
• From: Thoduvaanam (@ 198.199.168.30) on: Tue Dec 4 14:58:08 EST 2001
  
  NCR (@ 206.30.30.2):
  
  I agree with Fliflo that when I eat G(J)ilebi, I just see whether it is tasting good or not, I dont see who made it.
  
  I dont mean to pick on you. But dont you care about the ingredients?
  
  
• From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.230) on: Tue Dec 4 15:06:30 EST 2001
  
  "I think ARR was the main culprit here. He was the one who introduced initially maximum number of new singers from Mumbai more extensively."
  
  What about Asha Bhosle and Lata Mangeshkar who had sung 50 songs already before "Kaadhalikkum..."?
  Just b'cos people didn't voice out their intolerance doesn't mean the pronounciation was agreeable!
  
  
• From: Ramki (@ 161.150.2.250) on: Tue Dec 4 15:27:37 EST 2001
  
  Trend you might want to look here
  
  http://newtfmpage.com/forum/8228.20092.10:23:15.html
  
  
• From: NCR (@ 206.30.30.2) on: Tue Dec 4 15:38:01 EST 2001
  
  Indhu:
  
  You are feeling that all the current lot are not doing good by allowing mispronounciation, using more foreigners, etc., This is bad for you. Similary I think every discerning listener has his/her views. Thats how each one feel their own way what is good or what is bad.
  
  Unfortunately for film industry there is restriction on the output by the limited form of censor, but there is no restrictions on the persons entering into the Industry, how they are creating, what they are creating. It is upto viewers to decide and the creator go by the viewers and viewers go by creators. This is a vicious cycle one blame the other for all the bad things. They are taking we are seeing/listening and they are seeing/listening, we are taking.
  
  The movie field is strange field. It is so open field that any person from any background can enter this field. Any person who has money can produce a movie. Now it is upto producer to decide the technicians and cast. Once he makes movie he sees for a buyers, and if producer is having enough money, he himself releases the movie. There are absolutely no criteria/standards upon to choose any of these artists. Since this is a creative field involving huge money,popularity people tend to gain whatever they can. Thats why so many tricks they follow what they want to acheive. We cant blame anybody for this.
  
  Sorry for digression:
  
  Thoduvaanam, I am not sure whether one can make a tasteful jilebi with bad ingredients. I felt ingredients are related to taste. And also here the question is the origin of person making it. And now dont ask me do I care for how it is made or not. Take it easy
  
  
• From: testing (@ 208.153.11.100) on: Tue Dec 4 15:41:13 EST 2001
  
  testing
  
  

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