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Mumbai Moham - What do Tamils put up with the bad and mediocre singing of Mumbai artistes?

Topic started by Indhu (@ 24.76.127.63) on Sat Dec 1 22:44:28 EST 2001.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

This is my question....Udit Narayan, Hariharan, Sadhana Sargam, Kavitha Krishnamurti,Sonu Nigam - All sing in Tamil. But their Tamil is really very bad. Are Tamils deaf, tolerant, or have no PERUMAI in their own language? Is there really a shortage of good, tamil-speaking singers? Or is this really Tamil Inferiority Complex?

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Indhu (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Tue Dec 4 00:31:13 EST 2001
  
  Neel D,
  
  I just checked out the responses to your earlier effort to address this issue of deterioration in tamil music in general.
  
  The responses - Two??
  
  Gosh, is that PATHETIC or what!!
  
  I guess CARING ENOUGH to do SOEMTHING ABOUT IT -
  
  is way UN-COOL these days.
  
  Or: Maybe, such topics are considered too SERIOUS...
  
  That whole Uddra naina, gammunnu kada mentality.
  
  
• From: Fliflo (@ 130.203.161.93) on: Tue Dec 4 04:46:28 EST 2001
  
  I guess you have forgotten to answer the best of others (Malayalis, Maharastris and Bengalis) probably the worst of us. When you say something always try to give evidence(s) rather than just making a general statement.It is easy thing to make such a statement. You don't seem to get the point that the problem we face with other language people too. It might take a sensitive turn when you make it big, big to the size others notice, they turn to be cautious and try to protect themselves by not giving us a way there. In my feeling, this is a colloborative issue, which is not mutually exclusive from other such issues. So try to address as a whole rather addressing just one portion of it, which is not going to make you to get a complete picture.
  
  When this topic started, I thought this is going to address a much broader issue namely 'tamil and tamil culture'. I do not rather ended up there when you wouldn't shout "tamil and their language perumai". This argument is very logical as the problem is expected to "pour in" suggestions and opinions from various people.When one such guy attempted to do it you just raised an unwanted question about his "origin".
  
  You say that you wanted to address the issues leaving the basic point of commercialism (one of the excuses) associated to this issue. A MD/singer (especially this is the core reason for style/success) is going to listen to you or to the producer. At the worst, if you guys deny to buy 10 cassettes, do you think it makes any significant difference in the crowd of about 20 million. I see a positive move and attitude in your posting, which probably is hyper-driven by mere tamil interests. The best thing you can do is you have a big choice to opt only for tamil based musicians when you produce a movie. By the by, if you're so much interested in our great language, I don't understand the reason to just stick with one, simple issue. I feel the conclusions arrived are too pre-mature both in terms of contents and thoughts.
  
  I guess CARING ENOUGH to do SOEMTHING ABOUT IT -
  is way UN-COOL these days.
  
  Why do you feel it uncool.Take discussions as discussions in the right attitude. Your careness feeling is understood and many here share and feel about it. But, the urge to do something is sudden and don't seem to be very practical. First let's try to understand this issue as a broader problem with input from many. When you put them in one box you find that this is going to be much extensive than we thought. So if there are posts which do not necessarily get along with you just spend two minutes in reading what others see about it. I see only despair in your last posting, probably did not come to a place where you wanted to be. Remember, A negative post can be very educative at times then just positive, supportive ones:-)))
  
  
• From: Fliflo (@ 130.203.161.93) on: Tue Dec 4 04:49:10 EST 2001
  
  I do not rather ended up there when you wouldn't shout "tamil and their language perumai
  
  Read it as "we rather ended..." bear with this..it's 4:00 am
  
  
• From: eden (@ 210.214.4.11) on: Tue Dec 4 04:55:53 EST 2001
  
  Indhu, good concern on pronunciation. Really appreciate...however, why do you term the thread `mumbai mOham'? There can always be good singers from Mumbai or Kolkata or wherever...there's absolutely nothing wrong..as long as they sing with correct accent & pronunciation!
  
  
• From: Kupps (@ 156.153.255.126) on: Tue Dec 4 05:15:44 EST 2001
  
  
  Here's a suggestion to MDs who couldn't care LESS and the SS,KK,HH (and the FebiSiriniShubaNoelPeters gang) who - poor things - can't get it right, and really why should they bother when the emphasis of the industry is really elsewhere:
  WHY NOT JUST PRODUCE INSTRUMENTAL SOUNDTRACKS? Would save them (and certainly US) a lot of agony. Don't you think?
  
  
  Indhu u wrote it couple of pages before.
  
  Instrumental SoundTracks mmm...sounds good, but u see they(instruments) cannot pronounce thamizh differently, can they? They(instruments) cannot go such "high" in imagination to say that i would drink the "holy" water falling off your(love's) body after cleaning your legs and " up-hold the true cause of love".
  
  
• From: A.A (@ 203.199.248.144) on: Tue Dec 4 08:19:01 EST 2001
  
  Kavitha Krishnamurthy...tamil pronounciation is very good...Hariharan is as good as Jesudoss in pronounciation.....Others pronounciation is bad but they make it up with extrodinary melody in theiR voice like UDIT....A.A
  
  
• From: WhyNot (@ 203.24.100.137) on: Tue Dec 4 08:58:23 EST 2001
  
  Just a quick question, many singers have been mentioned so far as having bad pronounciation.
  Is it just bad pronounciation or a slang/accent tat we are concerned about?
  When Indians speak English, we have varying degrees of 'accent' where the British or other races are concerned, and we do pronounce differently. Is that mispronounciation, or merely an accent?
  
  Ok let's say I want to say a simple sentence. A British will pronounce basic words differently from an American, an Australian will have even more different pronounciation, someone from Russia will pronounce sooooo differently, and an Indian will have his own way of pronounciation too.
  
  According to English language, different manners of accents are still technically acceptable as correct pronounciation. (i'm not guessing here.)
  
  So what about Tamil then? We obviously don't have the problem of too many of other races trying to speak Tamil. But how do u know when a singer is mispronouncing or is just having an accent?
  
  A case in point: Would u consider Asha Bhonsle as having an accent or mispronouncing?
  
  Another case: Is Vasudra Das mispronouncing or having an accent?
  
  
• From: WhyNot (@ 203.24.100.131) on: Tue Dec 4 09:01:35 EST 2001
  
  >>WHY NOT JUST PRODUCE INSTRUMENTAL SOUNDTRACKS?<<
  Indhu, I wanted to mention this before. Is it better to have no Tamil than bad Tamil?
  If i had kids and had to bring them in an environment where there was Tamil culture or language aspects to expose them to, I'd rather expose them to bad Tamil than to no Tamil.
  
  
• From: WhyNot (@ 203.24.100.131) on: Tue Dec 4 09:03:00 EST 2001
  
  error:
  I wanted to say:
  If i had kids and had to bring them in an environment where there was NOT MUCH CHOICE OF Tamil culture or language aspects to expose them to, I'd rather expose them to bad Tamil than to no Tamil.
  
  
  
• From: WhyNot (@ 203.24.100.131) on: Tue Dec 4 09:03:56 EST 2001
  
  error again:
  ...bring them UP in an...
  
  
• From: AV (@ 12.234.201.168) on: Tue Dec 4 10:47:43 EST 2001
  
  Nice to see that a lot of people are concerned at the state of affairs in TFM. A recent classic example of this pronounciation mis-adventure is the sukhwinder song in 12B. Prey tell me what in gods name is he trying to say. What would have been HJ's comment after sukwindher finishes the recording of the song? Something in the lines of "Awesome sir!! Nobody else could have done it better". Jokes apart, is HJ obligated to use him as the singer once he has signed him up for the song? Because any self-respecting tamil would not have allowed that song in the final cut of the album.
  
  In my opinion this problem has its roots in the argument that anything that sells or did sell should help in the success of the music/movie. Remember udit's "kadalan" song was a big hit. So every producer wants a peice of this (debatable) success pie and inturn gives full freedom to the MD's to try out new northern imports. As much as we would want to refute the idea, MDs still find northerners voice charming and exotic than to say home grown talents.
  
  As a closing note, Karthik raja gave an explanation that big audio companies need some "so-called" recognised singers to have sung in the album for them to release the audio. So it seems MD's are given names of singers to choose from by these companies. This interview was aired on the day of deepavali (not sure of the channel though).
  
  
  
• From: Indhu (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Tue Dec 4 10:48:08 EST 2001
  
  Fliflo, I really don't know what your problem is. The topic of this thread zeroes in on one specific aspect of current tamil music in films. I wonder why you thought this was going to be an all-out, general discussion on "culture" is general?? Although, if you have read the other postings here you'd know that people have addressed all sorts of related issues. So get a handle on the topic before accusing me of not "getting" what people are saying. When I asked the question about "origin" I was being specific - "moolam" or "source" is an issue here. Not that one is arguing of the exclusion of others - but it sure helps to know how people see themselves when they use the IDENTITY of "Tamil"
  
  A suggestion: if you want a multi-pronged discussion on Tamil Culture - go ahead and start another thread. I am sure you will get people to respond to the issue in all its complexity.
  
  The last posting of mine was meant to be ironic. I guess, that fell flat. I was only despairing at the response Neel's original thread had generated. I don't think he would have put the link in his posting had he (she) not wanted us to check out the scarcity of responses that he got a few months ago....
  
  I get a sense that you have more of a problem with me than the topic at hand. And if that is indeed the case, then I am afraid, I can do precious little about it. I did not start this topic for people to like/dislike me. I wanted to get a pulse of what others thought about this issue.
  
  Indhu
  
  
• From: Indhu (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Tue Dec 4 11:00:14 EST 2001
  
  Eden, there is nothing wrong as long as the singers get it right....I agree wholeheartedly. Just out of curiosity: How many MDs from Kolkata have sort out the talents of say, a Uma Ramanan or a TL Maharajan for their scores....? Know where I might find Bengali numbers (or gujarati, oriya, bhojpuri, assamese) by the above singers (or other singers from Tamil Nadu)?
  
  I also believe that the promotion of local/native/southern talent should be encouraged.
  But the way things stand: Singers from Mumbai are given more mileage (and more songs) in Tamil, while homegrown singers who are just as talented (and trust me, get the pronunciation really really right) get short-shrift and find themselves without a career. Why?
  
  Heard of an Anu-Malik waiting for the voice of Swarnalatha when he has the dates/choice of an Alka Yagnik or Alisha Chinoy? I doubt.
  
  
• From: Indhu (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Tue Dec 4 11:04:42 EST 2001
  
  A.A.
  
  Here's an example of KK's pronunciation - the song was a huge hit (sadly)
  
  Kaatre en vaasal vandhai
  
  MedhuvaHA Kadhavu Thirandhai....
  
  Medhuvaha??? What's that? Slowly the way it is said in Matunga??
  
  

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