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Mumbai Moham - What do Tamils put up with the bad and mediocre singing of Mumbai artistes?

Topic started by Indhu (@ 24.76.127.63) on Sat Dec 1 22:44:28 EST 2001.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

This is my question....Udit Narayan, Hariharan, Sadhana Sargam, Kavitha Krishnamurti,Sonu Nigam - All sing in Tamil. But their Tamil is really very bad. Are Tamils deaf, tolerant, or have no PERUMAI in their own language? Is there really a shortage of good, tamil-speaking singers? Or is this really Tamil Inferiority Complex?

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Indhu (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Mon Dec 3 22:11:12 EST 2001
  
  Thank you RG for saying it the way it ought to be said. Commericalism, Profit, Subjectivity, What-Is-Tamil....and other such excuses passed off as Reasons - are only that. Excuses.
  
  We should take a page from the Pride the Maharashtrians, Andhrites, Malayalees and Bengalis.
  
  It is basically the perennial moham of anything associated with Mumbai (somehow deemed exciting, superior and immensely more valuable) which has at every instance presaged the decline of Tamil kalacharam. This is not an argument for Purity or Ethnic Essences. It is a plea and a pledge that our Homegrown talent, with is way superior in the nuances of its nativity, be given centre-stage, once and for all. It is about time the Recording companies FACED the Music - for a change. Period.
  
  Indhu
  
  
• From: NCR (@ 12.87.94.178) on: Mon Dec 3 22:28:09 EST 2001
  
  I totally disagree with RG. Andhrites have always accepted and promoted Tamilians for almost all the film history. tamilians are the part of their film history. This is because most of the films are made in Chennai. There were less technicians who are from Andhra when compared to those who are from Tamilnadu/Kerala. Starting from Film directors to choreographers, art directors you name it you got it from what you call the next door tamilnadu. Do you say these people sensitised Andhrites with non-telugu diction or whatever? They took enough care to make people feel native telugu.
  
  But you know people can never be sensitised to anything. People dont accept if they dont like it.You may do it for a while but not for long. People already realised about North Indian singers and questioning all the responsible people. This question is asked in almost all interviews to the MD's and directors. Things are going to change. You may not see one more SPB, KJY, SJ, PS but definetely you wont see Hariharan, Sukhwinder, Kavitha, Udit , shankar etc., anymore.
  
  
• From: Neel D (@ 24.98.40.187) on: Mon Dec 3 22:44:09 EST 2001
  
  It is very interesting to read posts from Fliflo and Whynot. Fliflo has resigned to his own belief that Tamil film music and Tamil cinema will continue to deteriorate and will go to the dogs and that (s)he cannot do anything about it and should just silently accept it. Reminds me of the expression "vendhadhaith thinRu vidhi vanthAl sAvOm". Fliflo, ungaL uRuthi ivvaLavuthAnA?
  
  Whynot has given his ultimate words "Money is everything". There is not much room for discussion here. Whynot just condemned himself to a lifelong listening of crappy music because it is "all about money". Compromising on quality for the sake of money is not something uncommon but can have disastrous consequences.
  
  In the pronunciation thread when I made a statement that Indians in general don't aim for perfection, somebody jumped on me calling me a snobbish NRI who insults his own countrymen. Obviously, we see right here that people compromise on quality for the sake of whatever and they are very vocal about it too. A fellow poster (eden) picked on Tamil pronunciation of some Malayali singer and he was shouted down by a bunch of people.
  
  Anyway, please don't take my post too personal. If you do take it personal and start attacking or questioning me, I just wont reply.
  
  I am glad Indhu started this thread and has the energy to keep it going. I started a similar thread some time ago. Look at the response it got. http://www.newtfmpage.com/forum/17103.23.10.08.html
  
  
  
  
  
• From: Indhu (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Mon Dec 3 23:11:03 EST 2001
  
  Perhaps we could discuss ideas about countering this trend in our own small way (yes, I find that to be feebly empowering>)
  
  Here are a few of my thoughts:
  
  A campaign letter expressing our displeasure/dissatisfaction at the state of current Tamil film trends - particularly with Music.
  
  An invitation to MDs/Singers/Producers to a chatroom (anyone here that well-connected to pull it off? that would be a coup!) where we can have an exchange of views and ideas.
  
  A collectively signed letter to all tamil cinema journals?mags. We could work on a template, get a print-out and mail it with names and addresses.
  
  A website devoted exclusively to the Mispronunciation/Indistinguishable/Arbitrary Singing of Playback Singers - updated regularly by a few who know a thing or two about tamil music and the tamil language (in the formal sense).
  
  Wonder why the SPBs, VJs, SPSs, Deepan Chakravathis, Uma Ramanans, Sasirekhas, KJYs - have all fallen out of favour. Really, I am simply perplexed by this. Couldn't be because they are all immensely talented and trained in Tamil Music/Culture - could it?? It that so un-cool??
  
  NCR - I am curious to know what the reply to this is when the MDs are asked in their interviews?
  
  I remember seeing an interview with ARR a few years ago where he was quite convinced that using "untrained" and "other" singers to sing his compositions made them sound "natural" and "everyday" - and enhanced the realism of the character being portrayed! This, of course, assumes that running around trees, rolling on grass, gyrating with scores of extras in the middle of the street, is the most "natural" thing known and practiced by Indians.
  
  Talk about needing a REALITY pill!! (someone please make that a bottle!)
  
  Indhu
  
  
• From: Fliflo (@ 130.203.169.158) on: Mon Dec 3 23:38:05 EST 2001
  
  "Basically our taste has changed," to me sounds like a lame bail-out. It is the investigation of how, why and what can we do to prevent further erosion that I am really interested in"
  
  If you want an yes or no type of answer, then I wud say you definitely not interested in the complexity of this problem...It has been eroding for years and unfortunately you have brought just one single issue ant try to get an yes or no type answer..For me whomever discussed with some sense have contributed their opinions on this...It is just an one shot problem to make these singers to stop singing in tamil movies...The responsible person certainly has the power..But what to do the financier cud be a telegu guy, who is a non-tamilian helping tamil by producing a tamil movie...For me the problem looks very general...
  I am worried about the point that our old, wonderful cultural things are slowly diminishing because of lack of knowledge and lack of importance among public...You guys are worried about one single, petty issue..If tamil for tamil attitude is going to be the solution then you will be more encircled in a closed system....Thinking that way is very irrational and racial in nature, which would isolate and make you to live with "I am the best attitude"...I am worried about overall cultural poisoning than just restricting to sukhwinder, hariharan and others...There is also a comment on how to protect...Do you think you guys can contribute 2 cents by getting an idea from here.. Show feeling of tamilian in your happy living than showing it as a pride...I am proud that I am a tamilian..equally I can understand other's pride too..FYI, it is not only tamil culture undergoing erosion ..whole indian culture is being slowly westernised...Be practical..Talk what is possible.. Don't lock yourself in a closed system..You might die of suffocation...Ultimately, by entering into such an ignorant loop, I do not want tamils to be the loosers...
  
  "We should take a page from the Pride the Maharashtrians, Andhrites, Malayalees and Bengalis"
  
  
  For me this look like a general, but a blunt statement(s) please eloborate and put forward some salient features to support your argument?
  I lived in bangalore for 7 wonderful years..I see kannadiga people feeling the same manner..I can quote lot of tamils in kannada film industry..If they wud have thought that manner IR, SPB and others would not had a survival there.. I donno how you guys defend SPB singing in Hindi and winning a national award...I very well know the quality and standard of Bengali film music..I am sure many of us do not know beyond Satyajit ray.Be pride to be a Bengali.Top class hindi musicians like Kishore kumar, RDBurman and SD Burman though bengalis, were allowed to top in HFM..Is it a cultural erosion of Hindi language...
  Streets of frankfurt and toronto are filled with tamil name boards..is it a cultural erosion of german or a canadian..Keep a full stop.. The discussion would be more sensible if it is discussed broadly and generally...
  
  
  
• From: WhyNot (@ 203.24.100.132) on: Tue Dec 4 00:06:08 EST 2001
  
  KS and Indhu & Neel and whoever else,
  I don't think money is everything in my life.
  The message i'm trying to convey here is this:
  tamil cinema, despite all its flaws, is an important part of tamil culture. It sort of showcases all the various aspects of tamil culture, arts and history. If we neglect profits and $, we may end up losing this cinema, which is, in my opinion, an important aspect of tamil culture in the present day.
  What i am not saying is tat money is so important that culture can go down the drain.
  What I'm saying is tat we need to find a balance somewhere where culture and language is safeguarded while the movie industry still survives. And we can't do this if we sidetrack our thinking into money versus culture. That's my whole point. Which is why i end by saying tat profit vs language is not a sound argument!
  
  >>I don't see why the "Money is Everything" dictum can't go hand-in-hand with "Good Taste and Integrity."<<
  i'm glad to hear u say that Indhu, bcos tat's what i was trying to say in the first place. That we should not place profit, and investment in language in the 2 opposite sides and make them compete. The reason I made this point was bcos, earlier u mentioned something about weeding out those mds who were interested in profit motive only from those who were interested in language development. And my point is that such a mentality (of penalising those who want to profit) is not going to bring us anywhere constructive.
  
  Well, anyway, I like the way this thread is going now.
  
  
• From: Indhu (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Tue Dec 4 00:09:18 EST 2001
  
  Frankly, I don't think I was looking for a Yes or No answer. I have stated in my earlier postings that there are many factors to this issue. Taking the MDs to task or engaging in MD - bashing would be simplistic and counter-productive. I said that too. We can talk about the issues till the cows come home, Fliflo. But now that we had identified a litany of grievances - I was wondering if we could move on and identify ways of addressing the issue, instead of constantly wallowing in cutlural/commercial relativism.
  
  Your postings might make for better and more coherent deductions if you used full-stops. This is just a request. I sometimes feel that the "stream of consciousness" with three-dots in your postings make it harder to know what your central argument is. Please don't take this personally. It is just a request, and the choice is always yours.
  
  Regarding the support of my argument - Please read my earlier postings. I am always vary about sounding like a stuck-record. My postings here, I believe, are sufficiently clear and expository.
  
  Indhu
  
  
• From: Indhu (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Tue Dec 4 00:16:08 EST 2001
  
  Just a correction (a friendly one) WhyNot: I said one should weed out MDs who only have an investment in the Bottomline (Profit) and no investment in maintaining the cultural integrity of the language.
  
  Cinema is Popular Culture. I shapes (in a mass communications sense) so much of the way we look, imagine and understand the world and culture(s) we are part of and come from. To ask the people involved with Tamil Film Music to value the language and its many-splendoured import as much as they can, is not really asking for the moon. Or is it??
  
  Indhu
  
  

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