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Kannadhaasan Vs. Vairamuthu TFM Symposium Topic 3: Thaththuvap Paadalgal

Topic started by Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on Wed Jul 15 19:13:39 EDT 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

For a good understanding of how to approach this ongoing symposium, please refer to the thread, "Kannadhaasan Vs. Vairamuthu TFM Symposium Topic 1:Iyarkai Varnanai" before you post. Let me reiterate that this is not a patti mandram, but
a research symposium.
Please show TFM examples of both poets with regards to just Thaththuvap Paadalgal
for this thread.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Dhan (@ dajal.legato.com) on: Fri Jul 17 00:00:27 EDT 1998
  
  Udhaya,
  
  Your "rich man's window" question comes in a song
  from the film "Paadum Vaanambaadi", Nagesh+Anand babu
  movie...cant get saranam :-(
  
  
• From: Ramki (@ pm062-21.spindler.wmich.edu) on: Fri Jul 17 01:00:46 EDT 1998
  
  Dhan Its "Vazhum varai poraadu vazhi ondru endre paadu" and the pallavi is
  
  maadi veettu sannal kooda sattai pottirkku
  cherikkulle chinna pulle ammanamaiyirukku
  
  
  
• From: Dhan (@ dajal.legato.com) on: Fri Jul 17 02:26:23 EDT 1998
  
  Thanks Ramki, a.k.a encyclo..:)
  
  
• From: Prakash Balakrishnan (@ gate2.ca.us.ibm.com) on: Fri Jul 17 12:12:13 EDT 1998
  
  Hello friends....
  Thathuvap paadalgaL vEru.. puratchi/Samudhaya paadalgaL vEru... idhai manadhil koNdu paadalgaLai thErndhedungaL. Sila puratchi/samudhayap paadalgaL ththuvap paadalgaLagath thOndrum.
  
  Sari... VM-in sila Thathuva padalgaL...
  ra.. ra... rammiya....
  ... ettu ettA varusha vazhvai pirichchukko
  N-ee endha ettil irukira therinjukko....
  
  
  Pagalavan, Udhaya fill the rest..
  
  another song
  ooraith therinjukitten ulagam purinjukittEn kaNmani en kaNmani, gyanam poradhutuchchu N-alum purinchiduchu kaNmani, en kaNmani....
  
  yet another song from Muthu
  
  ....pasu vinai pambEndru satchi sollavaa mudiyum....
  kaambil vizham endru karakkava mudiyum....
  
  
  Here is another KaNNadhasan's thathuvam..
  
  Ezhu surangaLukkuL ethanaip paadal
  idhaya surangathuL ethanai kELvi
  vazhum manitharukkuL ethanai salam
  karpanai sandhosathil avanadhu kavavAnam.......
  .......
  
  Another song by KaNNadhasan
  padaithanE manithanai ANdavan padaithaanE....
  
  one more...
  Yaadhum oorE yavarum kELir
  anbE engaL ulaga thathuvam...
  N-aNbar uNdu pagaivar illai
  N-anmai uNdu thEEmai illai....
  
  
  Sathya Keerthi... enna paNNarEEnga???
  
  ......Thodarum Muthaiya Vs Muththu....
  
  
  
• From: Pagalavan (@ bbn-cache-3.cisco.com) on: Fri Jul 17 13:07:41 EDT 1998
  
  Prakash Balakrishnan
  
  Pl. refer to the text in previous postings. VM himself categorises ezhuchchip pAdalgaL in this category. However, I agree with you that we should pick those lines without diluting the definition further.
  
  Yes, rA..rA..rAmaiyA.. is a good example of VM's thaththuvam.
  
  Ramki, nice to see your mention about vAnamE ellai lyrics. I like them too.
  
  Some more lines of VM in this category are:
  
  thAyp pAlukkuk kaNakkup pAththA
  thAli minjumA.. (samsAram athu minsAram)
  
  thAyennum oru theivam vEEttOdu irukku
  nEE
  thaniththaniyA kOyil kuLam ERuvathu ethukku..
  (arunAchalam song)
  
  kaiyil konjam kAsu irunthAl
  nEEthAn athukku ejamAnan..
  kazhuththu varaikkum kAsu irunthAl
  athuthAn unakku ejamAnan..
  (muthu song)
  
  More later..
  
  
  
• From: Ramki (@ dante.cs.wmich.edu) on: Fri Jul 17 13:24:15 EDT 1998
  
  Some more of VMs
  
  paalukku adimai naam aaru vayasile
  poovukku adimai padhinaaru vayasile
  novukku adimai naam paadhi vayasile
  saavukku adimai ada nooru vayasile
  adimaigala porandhuvittom
  adha mattum dhan marandhuvittom
  anbu paasam andha nesam siraivaasamdhanada
  (from 'aandavanae parkkanum'song)
  
  
  sakthi ulla aangalukku budhhi illai
  adhanaalae kudumbathil kuzhappam
  budhi ulla aangalukku sakthi illai adhanaalae
  kudumbathil mayakkam
  pirarkkendru vaazhum pergal pichaikondu vazhumpodhu
  thanakkendru vaazhum vazhkkai thavarendruaagadhu
  
  sattamenum vattathurkkul agapattu
  sila aanaigal poonaigal aagum
  sattathaiye sattaipaikkum pottukondu
  sila poonaigal aanaigal aagum
  harischandran thunbam kondaan
  adhu romba paavam dhan
  oru poiyai solliirundhaal adhu kooda nyayam dhan
  
  (from 'parthu sirikkidhu bommai')
  
  
  
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Fri Jul 17 13:39:36 EDT 1998
  
  Dhan, Ramki, thanks for the lyrics of the Paadum Vaanambaadi song. Prakash, I'm glad you stressed the difference between Thaththuvam and Samuthaaya Ezhuchchi topics. I thought VM would get buried in this topic. I'm glad there is a good showing of VM here. having said that, I got a Kannadhaasan goldie:
  
  dheyvam thandha veedu veedhiyirukku
  indha oorenna sondha veedenna njaanap pennae?
  vaazhvin porulenna nee vandha kadhai enna?
  
  naan kaettuth thaaythandhai padaiththanaa? illai
  en pillai enaik kaettup pirandhaanaa?
  dheyvam seydha paavam idhu poadi thangachchi
  konraal paavam thinraal poachchu idhudhaan en katchi (here's the excuse I give vegetarians)
  aadhi veedu andham kaadu
  idhil naan enna adiyae nee enna njaanap pennae?
  vaazhvin porulenna nee vandha kadhai enna?
  . . .
  verum koavil idhilenna abhishaekam?
  un manam engum therukkooththu pagal vaesham
  kallikkenna mullil vaeli poadi thangachchi
  kaatrukkaedhu thoattakkaaran idhudhaan en katchi
  kondadhenna koduppadhenna?
  idhil thaay enna? manandha thaaram enna njaanap pennae?
  vaazhvin porulenna nee vandha kadhai enna?
  . . .
  thelivaagath therindhaalae siththaandham
  adhu theriyaamal poanaalae vaedhaandham
  mannaith thoandith thanneer thaedum anbuth thangachchi
  ennai thoandi njaanam kandaen idhudhaan en katchi
  unmai enna poymai enna?
  idhil thaen enna kadikkum thael enna njaanap pennae?
  vaazhvin porul enna nee vandha kadhai enna?
  
  
  
• From: Prakash Balakrishnan (@ spider-wd073.proxy.aol.com) on: Sun Jul 19 16:57:15 EDT 1998
  
  Hi Udhaya,Pagalavan thank you for your replies..
  
  Udhaya spl. Thanks for theivam thanda veedu
  
  Hello engE KaNNadhasan RasigargaL??? podungaL ungaL padalgALai....
  
  Idho innoru pattu from KaNNadhasan...
  sodhanai mEl, sodhanai podhumada sami
  vEdhanaithan vazhkai endral thAngathu Bhoomi
  
  ....more to come...
  
  
• From: Kanchana (@ spider-wb081.proxy.aol.com) on: Sun Jul 19 21:24:45 EDT 1998
  
  kaNNadhAsanin thaththuvap pAdalgaL
  
  mudhalil pudhumaikkavignar vairamuththuvukku oru badhil:
  In my citations of VM's thaththuvap pAdalgaL, I'd referenced (along with Pags) vairamuththu's statement from his book "mounaththin sapthangaL" the gist of which follows:
  "thaththuvam enbadhu nilaiyAmai/vAzhkkai poi enbadhaip patRi mattum alla; idhu varai thamizh cinema rasigargaL appadi ninaiththu vandhirukkirArgaL; kaNNadhAsan pAdalgaLOdu sErndhu azhudhArgaL, thozhudhArgaL. Anaal, vAzhkkai enbadhu mei enbadhum thaththuvamE enRu en pAdalgaLil kooRa virumbugiREn."
  
  With all due respect to vairamuththu, here's a perspective on kaNNadhAsan's philosophical songs:
  Starting from the more secular Upanishads and Bhagvad Gita, Indian philosophy has always maintained that life on earth is fleeting and transitory; however, these philosophical treatises also acknowledge the fact that even such a fleeting life needs to be led well by each person until (s)he "graduates" to a phase where "neediththa nilaiyAmai" becomes more real than "thaRkAliga mei udaimai" for him/her personally.
  
  kaNNadhAsan's thoughts in works like "sugamAna sindhanaigaL" show that he understands this duality of life's "neediththa nilaiyAmai" and "thaRkAliga mei udaimai", depending on the degree of a person's self-realization. His TFM songs reflect this understanding extremely well--the songs span a broad philosophical spectrum starting from upbeat optimism re day-to-day life to total detachment to ultimate self-realization.
  
  Therefore, in my humble opinion, it is absolutely wrong to attempt to stereotype/box/label Kaviyarasar's songs solely as "kaNNeerp pAdalgaL" which glorify "vAzhkkaiyin nilaiyAmai".
  
  Now, to analyze some of kaviyarasar kaNNadhAsan's philosophical songs......
  
  These philosophical verses, from a romantic duet, state that you should never give up on life but need to have the desire to live in order to lead a good life:
  vAzha ninaiththAl vAzhalAm
  vazhiyA illai bhoomiyil
  Azhak kadalum sOlai Agum
  Asai irundhAl neendhi vA
  
  pArkkath therindhAl pAdhai theriyum
  pAdhai therindhAl payaNam thodarum
  payaNam thodarndhAl kadhavu thiRakkum
  kadhavu thiRandhAl kAtchi kidaikkum
  kAtchi kidaiththAl kavalai theerum
  kavalai theerndhAl vAzhalAm
  
  This fun song, sung by a bunch of students, talk about their positive philosophy of a regular day-to-day-life which includes love, self-respect,friendship, respecting women's rights, peace, thamizhppatRu and more:
  vAzhndhu pArkka vENdum
  manidhan manidhanAga vENdum
  ....
  kAtRu veesa vENdum peNgaL kAdhaL pEsa vENdum
  kAdhal pEsum peNgaL vAzhvil kavidhaiyAga vENdum
  mAnam kAkka vENdum peNNai madhiththu vAzha vENdum
  amaidhi enRum vENdum Asai aLavu kANa vENdum
  
  nAdu kAkka vENdum mudindhAl nanamai seyya vENdum
  thamizhum vAzha vENdum manidhan tharamum vAzha vENdum
  uNmai naNbar vENdum iruvar oruvarAga vENdum
  
  This song advises you to stay strong when faced with the trials & tribulations of life:
  vAzhkkai enRAl Ayiram irukkum
  vAsalthORum vEdhanai irukkum
  vandha thunbam edhuvenRAlum
  vAdi ninRAl Oduvadhillai
  edhaiyum thAngum idhayam irundhAl
  iRudhi varaikkum amaidhi irukkum
  
  mayakkamA kalakkamA
  manadhilE kuzhappamA
  vAzhkkaiyil nadukkamA?
  
  A pragmatic statement around how intelligence alone does not lead to success:
  budhi uLLa manidhan ellAm
  vetRi kANbadhillai
  vetRi petRa manidhan ellAm
  budhisAli illai
  
  A relativistic statement around how perception and reality are subjective:
  dheivam enRAl adhu dheivam-adhu
  silai enRAl veRum silaithAn
  uNdenRAl adhu uNdu
  illai enRAl adhu illai!
  
  Another relativistic statement:
  dheepaththai vaiththuk koNdu
  thirukkuRaLum padikkalAm
  theeyaik koNdu moodar ellAm
  ooraik kooda erikkalAm
  
  Yet another relativistic statement:
  vAsaR padiyum kalthAnE--nAm
  vaNangum silaiyum kalthAnE
  kallinil bEdham illaiyadA--adhu
  kaNgaLil mARum kAtchiyadA
  
  A contemplation of God, mankind and the eternal search:
  iRaivan irukkinRAnA manidhan kEtkiRAn--avan
  irundhAl ulagaththilE engE vAzhgiRAn?
  
  nAn Asthigan AnEn avan agappadavillai
  nAn nAsthigan AnEn avan bayappadavillai!
  
  A statement on the nature of life where change is the only constant:
  engE vAzhkkai thodangum adhu
  engE evvidham mudiyum
  idhudhAn pAdhai idhudhAn payaNam
  enbadhu yArukkum theriyAdhu
  pAdhai ellAm mARi varum
  payaNam mudindhu vidum
  mARuvadhaip purindhu koNdAl
  mayakkam theLindhu vidum
  
  Here is a pattinaththAr-inspired song which speaks of detachment and "vAzhkkai nilaiyAmai":
  Adiya Attam enna, pEsiya vArththai enna
  thEdiya selvam enna, thiraNdadhOr sutRam enna
  koodu vittu Avi pOnAl koodavE varuvadhenna?
  
  veedu varai uRavu, veedhi varai manaivi
  kAdu varai piLLai, kadaisi varai yArO?
  
  vittu vidum Avi, pattu vidum mEni
  suttu vidum neruppu, sooniyaththil nilaippu
  
  Here is yet another "vAzhkkai nilaiyAmai" song:
  pOnAl pOgattum pOdA--indha bhoomiyil
  nilaiyAi vAzhndhavar yArada?
  
  vandhadhu theriyum pOvadhu engE
  vAsal namakkE theriyAdhu
  vandhavar ellAm thangi vittAl
  indha maNNil namakkE idam Edhu
  
  vAzhkkai enbadhu viyAbAram
  adhil jananam enbadhu varavAgum
  adhil maraNam enbadhu selavAgum
  
  The following song depicts the hero who is in a state of happiness, as he masters his "inner animal" and discovers total peace. The asterisked line condenses a major section of the taittriya upanishad which is part of the Krishna Yajur Veda:
  pAdhi manadhil dheivam irundhu
  Atchi seidhadhadA
  meedhi manadhil mirugam irundhu
  Atti vaiththadhadA
  Atti vaiththa mirugam inRu
  adangi vittadhadA
  amaidhi dheivam muzhu manadhil
  kOvil koNdadhadA
  
  eRumbuth thOlai uRiththup pArkka
  yAnai vandhadhadA
  nAn idhayath thOlai uRiththup pArkka
  gNAnam vandhadhadA**
  piRakkum munnE irundha uLLam
  inRu vandhadhadA
  manam shAnthi shAnthi enRu inRu
  Oivu koNdadhadA
  
  Back later......
  
  
• From: peesoo (@ horus.erlm.siemens.de) on: Mon Jul 20 06:10:16 EDT 1998
  
  I'm not sure whether the following songs falls under this category. If you guys approve we can go ahead:
  
  van-than-aaL muthal in-than-aaL varai
  vaanam maaRavillai; vaan
  mathiyum mInum katal kaaRRum
  malarum maNNum kotiyum chOlaiyum
  n-athiyum maaRavillai. manithan maaRivittaan.
  
  paRavaiyai kaNtaan vimaanam pataiththaan
  paayum mInkaLil patakinaik kaNtaan
  ethiroli kEttaan vaanoli pataiththaan
  ethanaik kaNtaan mathamthanaip pataiththaan
  manithan maaRivittaan
  mathaththil ERivittaan.
  
  
  Pl. forgive me if its not appropriate.
  
  

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