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IR or ARR

Topic started by M.Anand (@ ihproxy1.proxy.lucent.com) on Tue Jan 18 01:03:04 EST 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

hi all, I am Anand from bangalore and a new visitor to the tfm page. I am a great fan of both ARR and IR. I browsed through all the earlier threads on ARR and IR. It seems to me that there are quite a few anti ARRs out here.

Let me tell you something about IRs music. IRs music became popular and sounded different because he tried to bring in a westernization of Carnatic ragas in his songs. Even a dappanguthu was in Lathaangi or sivaranjani. That actually made the difference. Otherwise he is no great MD. One might argue that such a westernization or incorporation of a carnatic raga in a dappanguthu or jazz is something that demands great applause. But IR doesn't deserve that because, if u say u are tuning a song in a particular raagam, you have to bring out the nuances, the laya and bhaava of the raagam in to the song. Just traversing the swaras in the raagam here and there does not mean that u have tuned a song in that raagam. Ilayaraaja has done just that, a mere traversal through the swaras. In many places, there were apaswaras also. ARR has tuned very few songs based on Carnatic ragas but they were classics. For example Mettu podu in Anjali is a beautiful song in Ananda Bhairavi. He has brought out every nuance of the raagam in that song. Minsaara Kanna in padaiyappa is an excellent piece in vasantha. En mel vizhunda mazhai tuliye is again a beautiful piece in kaapi. A real mix of the east and west. That is what u call fusion. Ilayaraaja boasts of having composed songs in rare raagas like chala nattai, kanakangi etc. For example pani vizhum malar vanam in chala nattai is again a pure note traversal. There was no attempt to bring out the nuances in the raaga. So IR knew how to make songs sound good but ARR gives a fine polish to each and every one of his songs. IR composed music for 700 odd films. Hey Ram is his 785th film. Considering 7 songs per movie, he has tuned almost 5500 songs. Huge number indeed but hardly 5% of those songs are listenable others are 100% pure junk. But 99.9% of ARRs songs are listenable and they are also good numbers. What do you say about this?

Regards,
Anand

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Dorai (@ 216.217.47.130) on: Wed Oct 18 11:16:12 EDT 2000
  
  Krishna,
  IMO, MSV till date did not have any attitude problem. Directors turned away from him because thay saw IR's music well accepted by the public. BR turned away from IR when IR was in the peak after "Kadalora Kavithaigal", came back to him for a short while and left him again. ARR was not in the scene at that time. KB started turning away from him and went with "Maragatha Mani" even before ARR's entrance in TFM. Even AVM turned away from him after "Murattu Kallai" and the list goes on...
  
  The pattern of hostility towards IR is very consistent with whom so ever who had worked with IR in the past. Looks like they have been time and again offended by IR (even un-deliberatly) and could not stand anymore when other options are available.
  
  
• From: nakkeeran (@ 208.142.210.30) on: Wed Oct 18 11:51:21 EDT 2000
  
  sakalakalaa vallavan, paayum puli, thoong. thambi thoong., munthaanai mudichu, sakthivEl, oru oorla oru raajakumaari....
  
  few of the AVM movies after 'murattuk kaaLai' with IR.
  
  
• From: Dorai (@ 216.217.47.130) on: Wed Oct 18 11:59:09 EDT 2000
  
  Nakkeeran,
  Sorry for the mis info. But the fact remains that AVM publically came out and said that it will not work with IR anymore at some point in time when IR was in the peak and ARR was not in the scene.
  
  
• From: nakkeeran (@ 208.142.210.30) on: Wed Oct 18 12:37:49 EDT 2000
  
  http://www.avmindia.com/1986-95.html
  
  This is AVM's official website. It says that 'ejamaan' and 'sEthupathi I.P.S' were released in 93 and 94 respectively. As 'rOjaa' was released in 1992, ARR was very much 'in the scene'.
  
  
• From: k (@ 198.102.112.201) on: Wed Oct 18 12:40:30 EDT 2000
  
  This thread should be banned
  
  
• From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.227) on: Wed Oct 18 12:47:51 EDT 2000
  
  Nakkerran,
  
  If you see the directors for 'ejamaan' and 'sEthupathi I.P.S'-R V Uthaya Kumar and P.Vasu are very IR compatible directors.
  
  Also P.Vasu-ARR combo produced a flop movie though it had a couple of wonderful songs.
  
  Trend
  
  
• From: nakkeeran (@ 208.142.210.30) on: Wed Oct 18 12:52:35 EDT 2000
  
  Trend
  
  I was just responding to Dorai's statement about AVM and IR. Directors did not come into consideration.
  
  Probably AVM said, "We will not produce a movie with IR, if the directors are not IR-compatible" :-))))))))
  
  BTW, what do you mean by IR-compatible?
  
  
• From: Dorai (@ 216.217.47.130) on: Wed Oct 18 13:01:23 EDT 2000
  
  Nakkeeran,
  May be I am wrong on this example. But I do remember AVM turning away from IR sometime when ARR was not in the scene. But, AVM might have started working with IR after a gap ( MSV was used for one of AVM's movie after "Muratttu Kallai", can't remember the name though) since there were few good alternate music directors at that time.
  
  
• From: nakkeeran (@ 208.142.210.30) on: Wed Oct 18 13:09:48 EDT 2000
  
  Dorai
  
  http://www.avmindia.com/1976-85.html
  
  'murattuk kALai' was done in 80 and 'pOkkiri rAjA' with MSV was done in 82.
  
  The point I am trying to make is:
  
  In any field involving money & power, cinema and poilitics for example, there are no permanent friends and enemies. If you are not financially attractive (powerless), any close friend will seek better options.
  
  If you are strong, any worst enemy will try to become your friend.
  
  enna oru sinthanai :-))))))))
  
  
• From: Dorai (@ 216.217.47.130) on: Thu Oct 19 09:50:22 EDT 2000
  
  Nakeeran,
  If AVM was very happy working with IR why would they shift to MSV after Murattu Kallai and also if you notice there is a long gap between 1987 and 1991 before they started using IR again. During this period they were using Chandra Bose predominantly for all their tamil productions. There is one exception though which is the Kamal's movie "Persollum Pillai (1989)" may be at Kamal's insistence they used IR.
  
  Lets not get distracted here. The point I was trying to make is that the majority of Directors had problems working with IR and that includes his best pal BR, MR, KB etc. Whether you want to accept it or not IR was also responsible for it
  
  
• From: fan (@ 63.225.173.44) on: Thu Oct 19 10:10:26 EDT 2000
  
  Dorai,
  Since msv did not have much work, Ir might have asked avm to give one movie to msv..
  this is also very much possible,
  This happened to few muktha srinivasan movies, when he approaced ir, ir did not accept just for the above reason.
  
  But I am still wondering why AVM used very much less talented (than IR) Chandra bose ?, if you read my posting 3 years ago (for which i am trashed now, thats a different story)
  , i had mentioned raja downfall is not due to inability to score music it is because of his attitude. You would laugh if hear the Bagyaraj & IR issue.
  
  
• From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.227) on: Thu Oct 19 10:14:07 EDT 2000
  
  fan,
  
  What's this Bhagyaraj & IR issue?I'm curioooooous..
  
  Trend
  
  
• From: Dorai (@ 216.217.47.130) on: Thu Oct 19 10:25:55 EDT 2000
  
  Fan,
  I know that even Bhagyaraj was not happy with IR initially and prefered to work with MSV and Gangai Amaran. But he used IR for Mundhanai Mudichu for commercial reasons. I am not claiming here that Bhagyaraj is a great director or anything of that sort. But he could not cope up with IR too.
  
  
• From: Dorai (@ 216.217.47.130) on: Thu Oct 19 10:29:53 EDT 2000
  
  But he could not cope up with IR too should read as
  "But he too could not cope up with IR."
  
  
• From: Karthik (@ 129.188.33.221) on: Thu Oct 19 10:41:47 EDT 2000
  
  Guys, why do you have to use this thread and ARR's new albums thread for your IR /ARR /Bhagyaraj discussions? This thread is for IR's new albums only. Take your arguements to one of the other IR vs ARR threads ... or just read the archives - Everything you are saying now has been discussed over and over again.
  
  Leave these threads alone for people that want to discuss IR's new albums.
  
  Irritated
  Karthik
  
  
  
• From: Dorai (@ 216.217.47.130) on: Thu Oct 19 10:50:34 EDT 2000
  
  Karthik,
  FYI, this is not "IR's New Albums" thread but it is "IR or ARR". Do not jump to conclusions. This is a discussion forum and not a copyrighted "IR or ARR Rasigar Mandram". Any one can express his views and counter arguements. If you don't like it I cannot help you.
  
  
• From: satish (@ 139.85.161.184) on: Thu Oct 19 11:11:14 EDT 2000
  
  Dorai
  
  i agree with your point that IR's attitude is real bad, even he used to play around with the lyrics written by vali by changing them, even though he speaks so much of philosophy he is still head strong, long back in an interview in DD
  IR said "na podarthu dhan music adhe kekanumgardhu unga thalai ezuthu" hope he understands atleast now.
  
  
• From: vikram chander (@ 202.9.175.244) on: Thu Oct 19 11:19:57 EDT 2000
  
  Well,this thread on IR-ARR is slowly getting
  transformed into IR-directors of TFM thread
  
  
• From: fan (@ 216.190.255.35) on: Thu Oct 19 12:47:09 EDT 2000
  
  Trend,
  A distributer told this story
  
  Bagyaraj's rasigar madram used to put a huge cut outs of KBraj whenever his movie got released; they were doing this for almost all his movies.
  I think it was dhavani kanavugal, if i remember right, it seems IR demanded a cut out similar to KBraj, KBraj compromised and told him the I did not place the cut-out it was my rasigar mandram..but ir did not agree. Bagyaraj again told him it is a usual practice to put MD pics in a circle just above the title. But ir demanded..ya da ya da ya da...finally KBRaj told that the director makes the movie not the MD.
  
  IR told him it is not easy to do music, asked him to try it out himself. The cold war is still on.
  
  Similar kinds of issue came up in a public function, involving super star, but chief minister MK gave a nice speech to put an end to that.
  
  
• From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.227) on: Thu Oct 19 13:06:34 EDT 2000
  
  Fan,
  
  Thanks for the story.If these people would deflate their ego a little and concentrate on giving quality works it would make a world of difference.
  
  Trend
  
  
• From: sabesan (@ 63.203.255.254) on: Thu Oct 19 13:10:09 EDT 2000
  
  fan, about this involving super star - i am not sure if IR started it or super star started it... it was something like "i wanted to be like u" kind of thing between both IR and super star for which MK told "IR music pottal thaan nalla irukkum.... adhey madhiri Rajine nadhicha thaan nalla irukkum....".... good point indeed..... oh man, i really don't want to see IR acting or rajini singing on his own music :-)
  
  that apart, i don't agree with u Sriks on IR's attitude..... tell me how IR does not have any attitude problem with many new and upcoming director's? why is that there is always a cold war only when the director's are BIG people.... i think its because the press created a huge hype abour IR saying that "this movie ran because of IR'..... let me give u 3 examples
  
  - Mani Rathinam - the Press said "thalapathy" but for music would have been a big flop - result MR came out (ok there can be 1000 other reasons).
  
  - Super Star - the same comments were passed for "Veera" (of course it was a much much lousy movie), and then after that i did not see IR on any other Super Star movie (except for Valli, i really wonder why Rajini went to IR for this movie?)
  
  - KB - everyone knows what happened with his utter junk movie - Pudhu Pudhu Arthangal.... in fact he publicly accepted (if i remember correct), that the movie ran for IR only.... and the press made it very very big news saying the movie ran only for IR....
  
  this "movie ran only for IR" was being done for a long time by press, which would certainly have pissed off all the big directors, which resulted in everyone waiting for a chance - they all had a good chance when ARR came into picture..... and now everyone starts thrashing IR by saying "like ARR there can be only one MD in 100's of years"....
  
  Sethu Bala the bext example - how IR can work with new director's without any problem....
  
  iam not saying that "press" is the reason or "other directors" are the reason for IR downslide..... the people's taste has changed - that's it..... whether its good or bad - no one can say.... whoever rules will have to come down when the taste changes..... this will happen for ARR, and for any XYZ who comes after him....
  
  so Sriks, if u say its IR attitude that is bad, i would say its the other way around.....
  
  

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