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IR vs ARR -- Imagining how would IR Compose a ARR Song and Viceversa

Topic started by Dorairaj Pichaiyan (@ gateway7.ey.com) on Fri Oct 29 12:13:19 EDT 1999.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

I use to wonder when I listen to an IR's songs like "Kalaivaniyee... from sindhubairav", how would ARR compose the same song. The answer I got
myself is probably the "Marghazi Thingal Allava...song from Sangaman." Similarly when I think of "Ore Naal Unai Naan Nelavil Parthadhu.." song of IR, I think of "Vennilave Vennillave...from Minsara Kanavu" of IR

But I feel that there are some unique songs like "Sorgame Enrallum...", "Poomalaye...Thollserava.." "SonthamVandhadhu..Vandhadhu...". "Mannil Entha...", "PovOma...Urkolam..." which I find it very difficult to find an equivalent or a derivative of it by ARR. On similar grounds, I find it difficult to find an IR equivalent of "Malargalee...Malargalee...", "Putham Pudhu Boome Vendum...", "Thee...Thee. Thithikum Tee" (esp the style of his composing mixing Carnatic Swarams in Pop music).

I would like your opinions and view to felicitate this thread.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Who Else (@ 216.32.18.74) on: Mon Nov 1 16:25:34 EST 1999
  
  ChandralEkhaa - raja rajaadhi raajan indha raaja
  
  "similarity - use of choral harmony and heavy beats. difference - pace, richness of instruments in the former. " --- I do not see any thing like that in the song, except for few abaswarams sung by IR, that is not called as harmonies., especially -- the humming (pa pa ) sheer mukal!.
  
  Chandraleka -- the structure of the song is different.,
  Raja uses the standard format for pallavi -- bgm -- sarananm-- pallav- --- 2nd bgm and then final saranam...
  but chanraleka has western style of chrous.
  The chrous comes in the male voice, there is nothing called first bgm, second bgm..etc craps here. Totaly western structure.
  There are many more differences , MS your argument is totally wrong, cannot be accepted.
  I do not want to read about the other songs, because the first point you have put itself it absured.
  
  Rajag do not waste time
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.22.77) on: Mon Nov 1 16:46:47 EST 1999
  
  rajaG:
  
  Let me make myself clear. When bringing out their "similarities" I tried to resist my tempatation of comparing their prowesses, but I could not :-). The reason is simple. I give the vote to ARR if his is better and vice - versa. I get involved in discussions and not delirious mud slinging :-) so kavalai padaatheenga ,we know our limits, right ? :-) It is just a matter of filling my upper chamber with good information and not to satisfy my egotistic warps :-)naama ippadiye discuss paNNalaame. Ok yaa ? Also I never said you had asked me compare/ you have compared. The posting though was a reply to yours sans the comments:-)
  
  
  <1. I don't think Rasaaththi and Rajadhirajan are similer - in fact both might be unique elements in the respective sets.
  
  Please read my comparison. you have taken the wrong songs
  
  2.suththam :-) You have just missed the greatest songs of IR. Try rephrasing srinath's words in my stlye ( I mean at a lower intensity :-)) and read them once :-)
  
  5. ithu dheiva kutram illai. It would have been better if you had not known both :-)
  
  6.appadi vaanga. raagaththOda mudiyalai similarity. IMO, the tune itself is comparable to IR's. athanaal thaan ezuthinEn. "mundhiri" chorus is one good punch in "nenjiniley" but interludes ARE naive. I felt the singers would have had a tough time singing both.
  
  7.May be you are right. It is just a matter of perception :-) (Just kidding). If you want a completely qawwaalish song (which is not very impressive) it is nenachchapadi from TIME . It IS qawwaalish.
  
  11.I can neither agree not disagree. May be I can wait on you to get me one.
  
  Regards
  
  MS
  
  
  
  
  
• From: Incomparable (@ 206.175.177.171) on: Mon Nov 1 16:54:15 EST 1999
  
  What would be ARR's equivalent to these :
  
  1. Inji Iduppu azhaga
  2. Thene thenpandi meene
  3. Aasaiya kathula thoodu vittu
  4. Kanmani anbodu kadalan
  5. Amman koil kizhakkale
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.22.77) on: Mon Nov 1 17:01:25 EST 1999
  
  I donot know who this anonymous poster is, but would like to say a few words. I never wrote an exhaustive comment on the two and cannot try one due to my limited capabilities. I do appreciate your intention to contend but with the expectation of some more substance. Almost all songs of IR and ARR have the typical film song structure you have specified and hence it does not IMHO count for comparison. There are better things to rave about.
  
  Western style chorus - you mean the operatic chorus ? Yeah I can agree. But is there any thing eastern about chorus ? May be I am uninformed :-). I can write a thousand differences (still unexhaustive :-)) too and claim they are different (male chorus in raja, female in chandra :-), usage of guitar etc...) , but that is not our objective. It is just to find a song that seems comparable.
  
  May be I am wrong and my posting insane :-) But I wonder why you need to go on a pedagogical mission to enlighten others about what they may do better. I think they can decide it for themselves :-)
  
  cheers
  
  MS
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ 208.24.179.211) on: Mon Nov 1 17:20:35 EST 1999
  
  MS,
  
  I meant Chandra and typed raasaaththi instead. I still believe that ChandralEkhaa and raajaadhi raajan are not comparable complements.
  
  You have every right to make qualitative statements about the compositions/composers. I am just going to choose to ignore it (that part of the post):-)
  
  Sri,
  
  I have said I am not interested (at least for now) in getting into an ARR vs. IR resume war. You are bored. I can always sleep, so I am not:-)
  
  
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.22.77) on: Mon Nov 1 17:29:27 EST 1999
  
  ha.ha.ha..rajaG romba tired aayittengaLaa ?:-) munnElam intha maathiri saNdai pOda munnaadi nippeengaLE :-) (Raj, naan, neenga, Sri nyaabagam irukka ? :-))
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ 208.24.179.211) on: Mon Nov 1 17:43:12 EST 1999
  
  MS,
  
  You bet!!!!
  
  
• From: Devadhi Deva (@ anon-spica.free.anonymizer.com) on: Mon Nov 1 19:51:01 EST 1999
  
  Why are you guys comparing these two when you have the best musician in Deva?As far as I'm concerned Deva is a better musician than these two.he is the best there is.For me IR is useless and ARR is a kid.only Deva is the music direction.Listen to Deva and enjoyyyyyyy.
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.28.90) on: Mon Nov 1 20:11:37 EST 1999
  
  LOL;)))))
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.28.90) on: Mon Nov 1 20:35:02 EST 1999
  
  DD:
  
  If you are not concerned about IR/ARR then this thread is of no concern to you. Please go to the appropriate thread.
  
  
• From: Jana (@ pppa35-resalecolumbus1-2r1168.saturn.bbn.com) on: Mon Nov 1 22:23:23 EST 1999
  
  How about these two songs:-
  
  IR -> Yela malai kaattukullee..(Naadodi Thendral)
  ARR-> Kaadu Potta kaadu.. (Karuthamma)
  
  
• From: Dorairaj Pichaiyan (@ gateway7.ey.com) on: Tue Nov 2 11:40:46 EST 1999
  
  MS, RajaG,
  My match for some of RajaG songs are
  
  Thenkuzhakku Chemaiyele --
  Oru thangaradhathil..(Dharmayutham)
  or
  Andha Vaanathapola.. (Chinna Gounder)
  or
  Poogatruthirunbuma...
  (Mudhal Mariyathai)
  
  Minsara Poove ---
  The equivalent of IR is "Aaadal Kalaiyee Devan Thandhadhu... (From Shree Raghavendra. The Ragaas maybe different but the situations for these songs are the same.
  
  
  
  
  
• From: AD (@ fw2.clmt.com) on: Tue Nov 2 13:03:23 EST 1999
  
  This guy, DD, seems to enjoy the "act of rubbing it in". I for sure think that he is getting a lot of satisfaction by provoking IR and ARR fans. The more he posts here the more he is exposing his traits. If he is really interested in Deva that is one heck of a choice for a MD. These characters derive pleasure by getting two groups to fight. (Should have been in politics).
  
  Devadhi Deva.. get a life ....
  
  
• From: sts (@ 38-pool1.ras12.casnc.agisdial.net) on: Wed Nov 3 01:56:35 EST 1999
  
  Please visit my page for songs from the album The Blast ,Time, Unakkaaka Ellam Unakkaaka. Enjoy!
  
  http://stsrinivasan.tripod.com/TamilSongs
  
  STS
  
  
• From: DIE HARD FAN OF ARR. (@ 203.116.186.39) on: Wed Nov 3 02:11:12 EST 1999
  
  I just can't understand ,why you people are comparing ARR with IR.ARR is a class above all the music directors in india.ARR is brilliant. IR is hopeless. IR's current music is not worth listening. I think it is better to compare deva and the hopeless IR.
  
  
• From: Dorai (@ gateway7.ey.com) on: Wed Nov 3 10:32:35 EST 1999
  
  DIE HARD FAN OR ARR,
  This thread is not intended to discuss who is the best or who is better. Its just meant to discuss
  songs of simlilar situations and ragas of the two great MDs of TFM viz, IR and ARR.
  
  
  
• From: e.hari (@ hud04a01.ml.com) on: Wed Nov 3 10:33:52 EST 1999
  
  MS.
  Kallour salai ( rap), - vikram vikram - Can this song be included under rap?,
  
  e.hari
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ daecfp02.sprint.com) on: Wed Nov 3 11:15:38 EST 1999
  
  e.hari,
  
  marandhEy pOittEn about Vikram - I would say yes!
  
  
• From: e.hari (@ hud04a01.ml.com) on: Wed Nov 3 12:24:26 EST 1999
  
  RajaG -
  :-)
  
  Some other songs ARR - IR
  1. pudu vellai malaghai - Endhan nenjil neegantha
  2. Thanga thamarai magale - illamai ennum poongatru
  3. thoda thoda malaradhane - sundari kannal oru seidhi
  
  IR - ARR
  1. urravenum pudiya vanil - ????
  2. kalai paniyl addum malargal - margali poove ???
  3. nila adu vanathil male - andha arabi kadal orum
  4. madha unn koil - anbendrum kadalil ( minsara kanau)
  
  e.hari
  
  
• From: chandy (@ 209.125.83.228) on: Wed Nov 3 15:51:30 EST 1999
  
  MS,
  
  Your choice of IR and ARR equivalence songs seem to be based on similarity in ragaas (your eg of andhi mazhai and minsAra poovey - both set in vasantha). One way to find similarity in IR-ARR songs, as outlined by rajaG, is to look at the instruments, musical patterns etc and identify equivalences.
  
  Another way to do is to look at similar situations in films and examine how IR and ARR have composed for the same situation.
  
  Eg :
  macha kaalai marudha kaalai (ARR) and thai pongal (IR-mahanadhi)
  
  Poraale Ponnuthaaye (ARR) and poguthe poghuthe en paingkili (IR)
  
  Anne Anne sippai anne (IR) and Odakaara Maarimuthu (ARR)
  
  Chinna chinna aasai (ARR) - Oho megam Vandadho (IR) / Athadi ammadi then mottu dhaan (IR)
  
  I was trying to think about some thallatu like equivalence of ARR songs to IR's kanne kalaimaane / then paandi seemaiyile.. are there any songs of ARR that are close t thaalatu?
  
  chandy
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ daecfp02.sprint.com) on: Wed Nov 3 17:32:43 EST 1999
  
  Chandy,
  
  Will Azhagu Nilave...by Chitra in Pavithra count as a quasi thalaattu?
  
  

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