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SPB the greatest singer that India had ever produced

Topic started by greatest_spb_fan (@ 212.2.14.241) on Thu Aug 2 04:57:19 EDT 2001.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

why don't anybody start a thread like 'SPB the greatest singer that India had ever produced', pls

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: fan (@ 202.9.149.105) on: Sat Sep 15 04:41:01 EDT 2001
  
  indian music fan, however the big the article is , you cannot deny the fact that the voice of spb is the greatest that India has produced and no body can come even half way near him in that respect. Also the versatility of this singer is not even 1 percent less than rafi. rafi's voice is stale after a few hearings and this is not the case of spb (even TMS for that matter). You please stop your lengthy arguments and we are not fools to accept your lecture
  
  
• From: raju (@ 202.9.167.206) on: Sat Sep 15 07:22:51 EDT 2001
  
  Hi indian music fan;
  
  atlast there is one;who has spoken sense after a long time.
  fORGET THESE NARROWMINDED TAMIL FANS WHO PROFUSELY PRAISE COMPOSERS AND DIRECTORS BY TURNING A DEAF EAR TOWARDS OTHER SONGS IN INDIA.
  
  A TRUE CONNOISSEUR OF MUSIC IS SOMEONE LIKE U!
  ... GREAT EXPLANATIONS AND CORRECTIONS!!
  KEEP IT UP!
  
  
• From: fan (@ 202.9.149.236) on: Sat Sep 15 08:32:34 EDT 2001
  
  mr raju, we are not narrowminded tamil fans. narrowness and tamil is opposite to each other. tamilnadu is the only place in India known for hospitality. and mind spb,pbs,suseela,janaki etc do not hail form tamilnadu.even latest singers like hh,sm,srinivas are from mumbai.think twice before writing. and again i repeat , spb's voice is the greatest of all Indian singers .
  
  
• From: Real Music fan (@ 216.104.228.113) on: Sat Sep 15 09:22:27 EDT 2001
  
  Indian Music Fan:
  
  Great discussion. Your points are well thought out and researched. If more participants, myself included, could put forward arguments like that, this forum would be a more "civilized" place.
  
  I consider music, like God, has no borders, language, religion or other boundaries. I enjoy good music, whatever or whoever is involved. Of course, I have my personal favourites like everyone else has. But I wouldn't downgrade or demean other artists to prove that my favourites are the "best in the world".
  
  The unfortunate fact is that some of the guys (or the same guy with multiple names) you are trying to convince are narrow minded, single issue, hero worshippers who will keep repeating the same old lines again and again. They are like little childre. To them, I say: "chappaaththi chappaaththi thaan, rotti rotti thaan":-)))
  
  
• From: Real Music fan (@ 216.104.228.114) on: Sat Sep 15 09:25:47 EDT 2001
  
  TYPO: In the second last sentence, it is "children", not "childre":-))
  
  
• From: Music_fan (@ 195.92.67.69) on: Sat Sep 15 11:28:58 EDT 2001
  
  Dear Indian Music Fan;
  
  I will start the debate with high respect to both SPB & Rafi.
  
  According to your posting Only rafi could do Justice at high pitches, which is not true SPB can also sing excellently at High pitches, if not better than Rafi,
  Take Rafi’s “'madhuban mein Radhika nache re”, he looses Shruthi, layam & flares at high pitches, he looses control with the swaram bit, now can you please provide a song where SPB ever flared at high pitches or lost control in swarams or shangathis, no never ever!
  
  Now take’s Shankaraaaa, Every one can sing from low notes (muthalan ghattai) to the highest note( ettank kattai) , no problem, but how many can sing vice versa?, only SPB. Listen carefully to shankaraaa, when nearly at the end of song, he sings from Highest pitch(ettankattai) to the lowest pitch (muthalankattai), even the great KJY was amazed by this, he told this in an sun_tv interview.
  
  Now lets talk about singing from lowest pitch(muthalnghatai) to the highest pitch(ettank kattai), have you seen the film “sirpikkul muthu (kamal, Radhika)”, where SPB talked for kaml in the film. Have you listen to “Thulli thulli neepaadam ma sithaiyamma”, where he amazingly starts below the lowest note, with great heavy bass singing “ aaaaaaahhhhh”, then step by step proceeds to the highest note(ettankattai), now if Rafi would have sung this, well I do not think he could have, because he will lack SPB’s heavy bass & punch, it is fact, accept it OK.
  
  Now let’s talk about SPB’s expression & why his expression is the best amongst the singers in IFM, Have you listened to “Junior Junior Junior, irru manam kondha thirumana vaalvil” from the film “avarghal”, where he sings for the puppet as well as Kamal Hasan, now tell me song where Rafi has done this???, another example is take “Khadavul amaithu vaitha media innaikkum kalyaan malai”, from aval oru thodar kathai, when he sings like animals, now tell me song where Rafi has done this???.
  
  Have you listened to “vaa machaa vaa, onarai peetai, oothikuttu vantheen naa”, where he sings like drunken man, Rafi can not sing like this man, I heard many, many of Rafi’s songs, he is only good for melodies, do you know in the Tamil version of “disco dancer”, the song I am disco dancer was rendered by SPB, can M.rafi do justice to that, NO.
  
  Have you heard Rafi’s “'parda hai parda “, he was always flaring at certain pitches, Rafi’s “'chAnd mEra dil” did not have any original punch, when he sang the song was dead, but SPB gave life to song with his magnificent voice & by adding his own style & he puts the word “door”, in the phrase 'chAnd mEra dil door', beautifully.
  As always Rafi lacked contrl in most of the songs.
  
  What about Rafi’s “'chchalkAyE jhAm'”, now compare that with “sorkamm madhuvile”, you can easily see that SPB outshine rafi. I know that SPB’s idol was Rafi, rafi was great, no doubt in that, but simple because SPB made lot of compliments about Rafi, does not make SPB any inferior to Rafi, nor does that make Rafi any Superior to SPB, because SPB is superior than Rafi in evry aspects of singing. SPB admires Unni Khrisnan & KJY for their carnatic abilities, now does that make UK & KJY better than SPB, certainly NOT!
  
  Have you heard SPB’s “vedham athanilum oru natham”, from salanghai oli, he another example of singing from highest pitch to the lowest pitch, simple amazing!
  
  I would also like to stress the fact “'madhuban mEin RadhikA nachE rE” was ordinary song which can rendered by any average singer, where else Shankaraparanm was most defienetly not in the league of 'madhuban mEin RadhikA nachE rE',
  
  SPB puts an expression & his own unique style in singing in every single word in the song, but Rafi does not, remember “namma oru singari singaporru vanthalam”, who else would have sung the song better, what about songs like “mannil intha kadhal indri”, from keladi kanmanni & “satham illatha thanimai ketten” from amarkalam!
  
  SPB is unique entity with no limitations & boundaries, only reason why M.rafi was more famous than SPB, was the fact M.rafi use to sing hindi songs & he was northie, but that does not mean he is the greatest singer in India, Bill Clinton is much more famous than vajbai that does not make vajbai stupid or dumb, or something like that,it SPB who is the greatest singer in India
  
  By the way SPB has won more National Awards, State awards, Filfare awards, Padmashree awards than any other singers in India, including M.rafi, KJY, Ghantasala.
  
  
• From: Music_fan (@ 195.92.67.69) on: Sat Sep 15 11:30:29 EDT 2001
  
  Raju;
  
  Pls read my above post. then chew it properly & swallow it, OK!
  
  
• From: Music_fan (@ 195.92.67.68) on: Sun Sep 16 05:32:31 EDT 2001
  
  IMF;
  
  Have you run away, after reading my post???, if you want to you can write an another posting saying that Rafi was the greatest with Facts NOT fiction, I will then prove it to you that SPB's voice is the best & he is the greatest!!, with facts & evidence.
  
  thanks
  
  
• From: Music_fan (@ 195.92.67.66) on: Sun Sep 16 12:00:32 EDT 2001
  
  IMF;
  
  Come out & show your self, there is no point in hiding
  
  
• From: Raguvaran (@ 212.2.14.241) on: Mon Sep 17 05:33:39 EDT 2001
  
  Music_fan;
  
  Excellent analysis, I wonder what Indian_music_fan has to say for this!
  
  
• From: Indian Music Fan (@ 204.50.249.134) on: Mon Sep 17 22:35:54 EDT 2001
  
  Music_Fan, your arguments just show your biased towards SPB without proving that he is better than Rafi.
  
  >>>Take Rafi s 'madhuban mein Radhika nache re , he looses Shruthi, layam & flares at high pitches, he looses control with the swaram bit.
  
  Excuse me !!. Tell me the parts where he loses control and flares at the high pitches. You aren’t even proving this fact by stating what parts and just making a statement. How can this be true. You cannot even say what parts because there are no parts where he goes off control, loses shruti or layam as well as flares at high pitches. You are saying that he loses control and flares at high pitches when it is an open fact that Rafi ruled at high pitches ??. This shows you are clearly going against facts which also shows you can’t prove this statement. And keep in mind that once Naushad made Lata practice 30 times one song to get her Urdu diction perfect so don’t you think that he would take notice of Rafi losing control or shruti as you claim. I think Naushad has a better understanding of shruti, control than you and all of us do, don’t you think ??. If he had noticed any flaws in the song than he wouldn’t have gone on with the recording in the first place or he would have chosen a different singer. Please get this into your head ??.
  
  >>>Every one can sing from low notes (muthalan ghattai) to the highest note( ettank kattai) , no problem, but how many can sing vice versa?, only SPB.
  
  Not everyone can sing from low notes to high notes. You have misunderstood what I have said. I will explain that later. Singing from a high note to a low note as you have mentioned.
  Examples :
  -“taqdeer ka fasana” from ‘Sehra’. The part where he pulls with “is dil se jal rahi he” to the low note “arman nahi tikanne”
  -the song “aaj purani rahon se” from ‘Aadmi’. From the high note “rahon se” to the low note “aaj purani….”
  
  >>>Have you listen to Thulli thulli neepaadam ma sithaiyamma , where he amazingly starts below the lowest note, with great heavy bass singing aaaaaaahhhhh , then step by step proceeds to the highest note(ettankattai),
  
  You have misinterpreted what I meant. When I say singing from low pitch to high pitch I mean singing in a low pitch and suddenly switching to a high pitch not step by step. This requires a special gift which only Rafi had.
  Example:
  -“mein galiyon ka raja” from ‘Dharam Veer’. From “mere badalna” which is a low note to “dalaa” which is a high note. And he takes this “dalaa” 2 more pitches higher in sequence.
  -“kya mausam hai” from ‘Doosra Aadmi’. When he comes in he pulls with “yeh mastiyan” and suddenly switches to “yeh sama” at an even higher pitch.
  -“deewane ka naam to pucho” as I mentioned before when talking about range in my last posting. The ending part where he pulls with an “aaaaahhhhh”. He switches notes 6 times continuously from high to low. Tell me which singer has done this before ??. Show me a SPB song where he has done this ??. This can also fit into the section on switching from a high to low pitch as well.
  
  When it comes to range, Rafi is all out better than SPB. Usually people’s voices tend to fall into a range of three octaves. If you are better at high pitches you are considered a soprano and if you are better at the lower pitches you are considered an alto or a baritone. There are artists who can go behyond high C as well but their voice sounds strain and unpleasant when they reach the high notes. Rafi could go behyond the normal 3 octaves into 5 octaves or more and his voice still sounding powerful and beautiful.
  The song “likhar tera naam zamin par” from ‘Laila Majnu’ where he pulls with “Lailllllaaaaaa” at the end he takes it from the higher side of middle C to a note F which is really magnificent. Show me a song where SPB has done this ??. Also the song “taqdeer ka fasana” where he pulls with a “shehnai ose kehdo” from a high middle C to an E note. Also the starting alaap of “pardah hai pardah” where he reaches a high E note. The song “kya mausam hai” from ‘Doosra Aadmi’ he hits a high D with his ‘yeh mastiyan” then progresses to an E with “yeh sama”. No other singer can claim to sing that high as well as sound pleasant at the same time. Only a female singer can attempt to do this such as Lata or Asha. So please do not talk about range unless you can prove it.
  
  >>>Have you listened to Junior Junior Junior, irru manam kondha thirumana vaalvil from the film avarghal , where he sings for the puppet as well as Kamal Hasan, now tell me song where Rafi has done this???
  
  Has SPB ever sung in a soft female voice like in the song “dilruba dil pe tu” from ‘Rajkumar’. The part “hum be to aye he” for Shammi Kapoor at the end. SPB could have never sung for an actor such as Shammi Kapoor because to sing for him you needed to be free and wild with major expression and match his antiques and teasing which only Rafi could match. Take for example the song “tumse acha kaun hai”. In the second stanza he emphasizes the word “acha” with a verve such as “aa-aa-chaa” matching the antiques of Shammi to the complete. There has been no actor who can match SK in the paucity of teasing and antiques(SK is called the “Elvis” of India), and only Rafi could do justice singing for him. Shammi Kapoor has even acknowledged that Rafi had a lot to do with his success. SPB once said that when he hears the song “deewana hua badal” from ‘Kashmir ki Kali’ (SK movie as well), when Rafi sings the line “yeh dekh ke dil jumaa”, he says look at the way Rafi emphasizes the word “jumaa”. SPB says he cries when he hears this song. So enough said about expression.
  
  >>>Have you listened to vaa machaa vaa, onarai peetai, oothikuttu vantheen naa , where he sings like drunken man, Rafi can not sing like this man.
  
  What are you talking about ??. Have you heard “mujhe duniya walo” from ‘Leader’ where he sings full drunk for Dilip Kumar. Or what about the song “khilona jankar tum to” from ‘Khilona’ where Rafi sings for Sanjeev Kumar as a retarted man. To sing for a retarted man like that song with so much expression is impossible and certainly SPB can not do that. Show me a song where SPB has sung for a retarted man with expression ??. As you mentioned singing for animals, I for one don’t worry if he can sing for an animal. We are here to judge singing for actors and using expression and not for other species. And singing for a puppet is not as hard as singing for a retarted man. You can make any voice for a puppet whereas when singing for a demented man, you have to match the expression and the voice of the retarted guy (actor) which is difficult. Please talk about difficult things and not easy run-on things to prove your point.
  
  >>>Have you heard Rafi s 'parda hai parda , he was always flaring at certain pitches, Rafi s 'chAnd mEra dil did not have any original punch, when he sang the song was dead, but SPB gave life to song with his magnificent voice & by adding his own style & he puts the word door , in the phrase 'chAnd mEra dil door', beautifully.
  As always Rafi lacked contrl in most of the songs.
  
  Once again you are not mentioning where he flares at certain pitches and just making a statement. And at the end of the song where he pulls 2 times one at higher than the other Look at the way he starts with a magnificent pull “aaaaaahhhaaAAAAAHHHHHHHH” and pulls at each stanza such as “mein dekha taaaaaaaaaaa hu jigar” and you are saying he flares at pitches ??. Please !!!!!. You are contradicting your own statement. I don’t have time for such dumb and baseless statements ok. Talk sense or don’t talk at all !!. There is no point in even arguing with you when you contradict your own self. There is no way SPB could have sung this with so much high pitch involved. Has SPB even sung a qawalli in the first place ??. “Chand mera dil” was an excellent song and was not dead. Rafi never lacked control in any of his songs. Show me a song where he lacks control ??. The songs which you have mentioned you have not proved your point by stating what parts. And Rafi was not only good at melodies as you claim. He was good at everything he did as well as melodies so please do not make such comments ok.
  
  >>> I know that SPB s idol was Rafi, rafi was great, no doubt in that, but simple because SPB made lot of compliments about Rafi, does not make SPB any inferior to Rafi, nor does that make Rafi any Superior to SPB, because SPB is superior than Rafi in evry aspects of singing. SPB admires Unni Khrisnan & KJY for their carnatic abilities, now does that make UK & KJY better than SPB, certainly NOT!
  
  When talking about voices, SPB once told Swami that he doesn’t feel like half a singer when listening to Rafi. He also mentioned in a Sun Interview as I mentioned in my last posting that the only voice he ever wished to possess was that of Rafi’s voice. Has SPB said this for anyone or has SPB cried at a song of another singer ??. I don’t think so !!. What more do you want him to say ??. Do you want him to come and knock on your door and tell you that he feels Rafi is better than him. SPB considers Rafi an Ustaz and can an Ustaz ever be better than a student. SPB feels and knows Rafi is better than him and if you cannot handle that with facts infront of you than that is your problem. When Rafi passed away KJY would not come to Bombay for his funeral because he said that it would disturb him and that Rafi would always be in his heart even though he had left this world.
  Yesudas once told Swami a guest on this forum that God has been partial to Rafi. He said "god gift term anavasyamaa romba common aa ippo use aardu".. but idu Rafi kee thaan 100% porundu".
  This person could sing as intricatley as a lady without sounding thin, cover any mood, versatility odey perfect example Rafi.
  Yesudas also said the most important is the comfort level over ranges which makes you feel God has been partial to Rafi. To the people exposed to Rafi’s talent, these or any amount of praise can only seem less.
  
  As I mentioned before singing in Hindi/Urdu is harder than in South Indian languages so if SPB makes you fall in love with his south indian songs the same cannot be said when he sings Rafi’s songs. Rafi could express each word so effortlessly that it is impossible to imagine any singer singing his songs. When SPB sang his songs at the RDB concert, it didn’t sound original because he could not express the words properly. Once you have mastered Hindi/Urdu expression than it can be easy for South Indian languages. So please do not mention expression in this case ok.
  
  >>> SPB is unique entity with no limitations & boundaries, only reason why M.rafi was more famous than SPB, was the fact M.rafi use to sing hindi songs & he was northie, but that does not mean he is the greatest singer in India, Bill Clinton is much more famous than vajbai that does not make vajbai stupid or dumb, or something like that,it SPB who is the greatest singer in India.
  
  Rafi is more famous than SPB because he is better than SPB not because he sang hindi songs. Can you explain the reason why Satyajit Ray is considered the greatest filmmaker in India when he mainly did Bengali films ??. It all depends upon talent. DO not make baseless comments please !!.
  
  >>> By the way SPB has won more National Awards, State awards, Filfare awards, Padmashree awards than any other singers in India, including M.rafi, KJY, Ghantasala.
  
  Awards do not judge the talent of a person or if he is better than another. RDB only won 3 filmfare awards. Does that make him less better than LP who won 7. Madan Mohan did not get his due during his lifetime, does that make him less better than SDB. I don’t know what you are trying to prove here.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• From: Jag (@ 35.9.26.144) on: Mon Sep 17 23:16:39 EDT 2001
  
  IMF,
  
  
  //Rafi is more famous than SPB because he is better than SPB not because he sang hindi songs.//
  // Can you explain the reason why Satyajit Ray is considered the
  greatest filmmaker in India when he mainly did Bengali films ??. It all depends upon talent. DO not make baseless comments please !!. //
  
  Becoz Satyajit ray is still considered northie and SPB a pacca southie. This is not to belittle satyajit ray, who is good but what about K.Vishwanath who has given timeless classics. The hard fact is that many northies do not consider Balu as a better singer than Sonu nigam or Udit narayan. I think you are one of those fanatic "wise guy" who is oblivious to the truth.
  If you ever get to listen to telugu songs, listen
  to
  
  "Bangaaru Kodi Petta...." from Gharana Mogudu, a chiranjeevi movie.
  
  or
  "Raajaadhi raaja..." from Agni Natchitaram.
  
  Songs from Sitara, Anveshana,Rudraveena, Rudranetra, Raakshasudu etc. You will understand why SPB is the greatest.
  
  Rafi is a great singer but Balu has more versatility and melody in his voice.
  
  
  Jag
  
  

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