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Song from KARNAN

Topic started by mana_sijan (@ 63.214.191.66) on Thu Apr 25 13:38:03 EDT 2002.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Does anyone remeber the lyrics for this piece from the movie KARNAN ? It goes something like "Ayiramkarangal neeti azhaikinra thaye potri", it is a verse thats sung in the background while Sivaji is praying to Surya, and at the end of the verse, while he is leaving, Surya warns him about Indra waiting in the diguise of an old brahmin ?

Also i cant seem to find any audio of this very beautiful verse either ? Does any one have it ?

Thanx

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: OISG (@ 193.188.97.152) on: Wed May 8 09:53:25 EDT 2002
  
  It is from Pachai Vilakku.MD -MSV-TKR
  
  
• From: Sathya (@ 24.191.186.191) on: Wed May 8 10:55:10 EDT 2002
  
  In the film Karnan, the song mazai kodukkum comes in different pieces.
  
  mannavar porulkaLai kai koNdu neettuvaar comes as title song.
  
  mazai kodukkum and naaNich chivanthana sung by two poets in the arasa sabai.
  
  When Sivaji worships his father Sooriyan, aayiram karangaL neetti is sung by the priests followed by Karnan.
  Soon after the prayer, Soorya bagavan warns Karnan about Indiran coming in disguise as an old man to get Karnan's kavasa kundalam.
  
  enna koduppaan is sung by Indiran ( actor is S.V.Ramdas).
  
  
• From: kalai (@ ) on: Fri May 31 02:40:42 EDT 2002
  
  An article about Karnan songs
  
  The Little-Known Music Of `Karnan'
  
  This article, written by V.S. KUMAR, is not about the warrior Karnan of Mahabharata, but about the Tamil film titled 'Karnan', rather about the Carnatic classical base of its music.
  
  'KARNAN'. Director: B.R. Panthulu. Producer: Padmini Pictures. Lyricist: Kannadasan. Music Directors: Viswanathan-Ramamoorthi. Playback: P. Suseela, Seerkazhi Govindarajan, Tiruchi Loganathan, T.M. Soundara Rajan, P.B. Srinivos. LP Record - Gramophone Company of India (1983): EMI ECLP-30508.
  
  Music-- and earlier on, classical music-- has been an integral part of Indian films. The legendary heroes of the past were all great singers first (and in quite a few cases, only that). All of them presented high-class songs steeped in Carnatic classical music. Most films offered good, classical music right up to the late nineteen sixties. And a film noted for doing just that was 'Karnan'.
  But-- and this is the reason for my writing-- the quality of this film's music has not been fully appreciated or received the connoisseur's recognition it deserves. I place my 'research thesis' before you and invite you to judge for yourselves.
  Cinemagoers who have seen 'Karnan' may recall it starts with a brief viruttam in the raga Mohanam, along with the titles, Mannavar porulgalai. This piece was woven into a five-stanza song for the LP record of the film's music, which also included two viruttam-s after Karnan (the hero) is crowned king- one when Karnan is offering prayers to the Sun God and one when Devendra seeks alms from Karnan.
  The sheer musical magic of the film comes through abundantly from this five-piece song, not only for the richness of melody and the rakti raga-s selected (Hindolam, Darbari Kanada, Mohanam, Hamsanandi and Ahir Bhairav), but the way these have been strung together for the LP.
  First you hear the four stanzas sung by four all-time greats of Tamil films- Seerkazhi Govindarajan, Tiruchi Loganathan, T.M. Soundararajan and P.B. Srinivos, and then the prayer sung by them in chorus. Glorious music, to say the least.
  The other long song of 'Karnan', the three-piece one sung by Seerkazhi, comes naturally to mind next. Here the raga-s used are Nata, Sahana and Madhyamavati, all marvellous ghana raga-s of Carnatic music. Film music directors will know how difficult it is to cast the grand Nata into the filmi or the light-classical mould.
  Here again, the pieces are all viruttam-s. I don't believe anyone has used this beautiful song-form with such power any time before or after 'Karnan'.
  One more thing. In the first song, Naani chivandana, Darbari Kanada is sung by Tiruchi Loganathan. There's not even a hint of the Carnatic Kanada in it. So what's new? You may be surprised to learn that, from the days of G. Ramanathan's Mullai malar meley to Ilaiyaraja's Poo maalai vaangi vanden, no music composer has been able to resist the temptation to add a splash of Darbari to a song based on Kanada, or the other way round.
  Talking of this clarity of the raga takes us to Kangal engey, the song sung by P. Suseela. Ask anyone with only a basic knowledge of raga-s, and you will be told the song is in Suddha Dhanyasi. Such is the pure alignment of the song with the raga.
  And yet, in the third line ('kanda pothey'), you have the swara-phrase ni-dha-pa-ma-ga in a quick glide, and the grammar-conscious know that the dhaivata (dha) is not used in this raga. Do you even notice it? The raga does not lose its image one tiny bit; in fact, the light touch imparted by the dhaivata emphasizes that the raga is Suddha Dhanyasi. It's been said that a raga has a personality all its own, and is not just a sequence of swara-s. How true!
  The example of a more recent film song authenticates this point negatively. I refer to the song Kannodu kaanbadellam in 'Jeans'. You keep hearing Suddha Dhanyasi all along till the singer suddenly switches to the swaraprastara, which is sung in Abheri, much to your horror. But when you go back and listen to the first part again, you realise that she had in fact been singing Abheri right through, that all the swara-s of Abheri are there, though the raga had sounded like Suddha Dhanyasi.
  Coming back to 'Karnan', an enchanting feature of the film's music, both in the songs and in the background score, is the use of the North Indian instrument sarangi. The power of the sarangi is in its softness, its natural affiliation to the karuna rasa. So, when a raga like Ahir Bhairav is sung with the sound of the sarangi punctuating it at intervals, the bhava evoked is unbelievable. Ullattil nalla ullam, Seerkazhi's piece de resistance in the film, stands testimony to this fact.
  Apart from the Hindustani instrument, the composers (Viswanathan- Ramamoorthi) have used Hindustani raga-s plentifully in 'Karnan'. Is that why the diehard Carnatic music buffs did not accept the greatness of its music? Most of the songs are based on well-known Hindustani raga-s: P. Suseela has sung four: Hamir Kalyan (Ennuyir tozhi), Peelu (Mangai mugam), Pahadi (Kannukku kulamyedu) and Durga in chorus (Malargal sootti). Seerkazhi has sung the evocative Ahir Bhairav.
  One aspect of all the Hindustani modes used in the film is that every one of these raga-s, with the exception of Pahadi, have a strong, well-known Carnatic equivalent: Peelu is Kafi; Sohini is Hamsanandi; and Durga is Suddha Saveri. Again, the raga-s Hamir Kalyan, Darbari Kanada and Ahir Bhairav have been 'adopted' by Carnatic musicians and are very popular in the South.
  But the commonality ends there. If you hear the way Durga is sung, you can't quickly relate it to Suddha Saveri, for the texture is totally different- it is Durga all the way. This shows yet again that swara-s alone don't make the raga.
  Similarly the Carnatic raga-s used in 'Karnan' are all sung in their own right in North India, like Hindolam (Malkauns), Mohanam (Bhoop), Suddha Dhanyasi (Dani), Madhyamavati (Madhyamat Sarang) and Kharaharapriya (Kafi). This is the base raga for the song Maharajan].
  The exceptions are Sahana and Nata that were referred to earlier, as well as Anandabhairavi (Poi vaa magaley) sung exquisitely by Soolamangalam Rajalakshmi and the lullaby in Neelambari sung by P.B. Srinivos. None of these four raga-s has an equivalent in North Indian music.
  I have a story about the Anandabhairavi song that is at once funny and tragic. A 'reputed' Tamil writer once said this song was based on Reetigaula. It was the ultimate insult to both the song and the raga-s.
  But the rarest piece in the film from a classical perspective, and yet the simplest, is the very popular song Iravum nilavum. Anyone familiar with Carnatic music will at once ask: "What is rare about it?" and add: "It's based on the raga Hamsanadam, but of course there is some misram, the usual filmi abasement." I don't think so. In my view it is not Hamsanadam but the Hindustani raga Suddha Sarang, as there is a distinct use of the arohana and avarohana of that mode. Even in the musical flourish with which the song begins, you will get the downward phrase dha-pa-MA- and, sure, it is the suddha madhyama. Neither this swara nor the dhaivata is used in Hamsanadam. This phrase gets repeated at the end of every stanza as well.
  So it is Suddha Sarang. I say this because M.S. Viswanathan, who I'm sure contributed mainly to this song, has been an innovator all along, introducing rare raga-s like Sumanesa Ranjani, Mahati, Chandrakauns and Mandari. He would have picked up this beautiful North Indian raga for sure.
  But the argument can go on. Probably MSV alone can- and should- clarify.
  From the foregoing, you would see what a rich classical fare 'Karnan' provides. As many as 17 melodious raga-s, structured with chastity and at the same time lightness, are featured in the film: four pure Carnatic raga-s, one pure Hindustani and 12 common to both systems. And yet very little has been written about it, and whatever little was said was either wrong or general.
  I am confident I speak for thousands of hardcore classical music enthusiasts who, like me, must have been thrilled by 'Karnan' when it first hit the silver screen and savoured every nuance of its music, as well as for the younger listeners of the last four decades who must have heard it later and savoured it likewise.
  
  link
  http://www.sruti.com/febmar01/febbob2.html
  
  
• From: Jeyaram (@ 203.197.158.20) on: Fri May 31 07:36:14 EDT 2002
  
  Kalai,
  
  Thanks for posting such a good article, on Karnan songs. I have always felt that Karnan songs were a revolution. Also, i know many people who are just crazy about Karnan songs.In fact, i have been listening to film songs from my childhood. Listening to Karnan songs made to turn to Classical music , both Carnatic and Hindustani. Such was the power of those songs.
  
  We can write a big thesis about Karnan songs and BGM. Diffcult to belive that all the 17 songs were composed by MSV at Bangalore in a short period of about 15-20 days.
  
  Though i am not good at Classical music theory, i do believe Iravum Nilavum is on Suddha Sarang . I could identify this when i attended a Sitar concert at Mumbai few years ago.
  
  This article does not mention the classic Thisram followed in Maharajan. And, the Pahadi phrases in the charanam of Kannuku Kulamedhu. What a beautiful song!
  
  And, the change of talams in 'Malargal sooti...' for the situation. Only MSV (TR) can do it.
  
  It is a pleasure talking about Karnan music.
  
  SL,
  Have you talked to MSV about Karnan music.
  As you mentioned, 'Kayttathellam Naan Tharuven...' is a wonderful song. Infact, y'day suddenly i remebered it. On the same tune, with little variations MSV has given "Pani malar megangal varuginra vazhiyil....' (SPB + PS) in some other movie.
  
  Can we discuss MSV's master pieces in a separate thread?
  
  Jeyaram
  
  
  
  
  
  
• From: vidya (@ 130.39.183.97) on: Sat Jun 1 13:38:04 EDT 2002
  
  Hi kalai,
  I too read htat article.It was great !!!!!
  vidya
  
  
• From: OISG (@ 193.188.97.152) on: Sun Jun 2 01:08:26 EDT 2002
  
  Kalai
  
  I had had a feeling that the Aachara-Carnatic musicians and critics have neglected the great work by MSV-TKR.The article is good.Some solace at last.
  
  Could have been more elaborate.
  
  Pani mazhai megangal was by Vijaybaskar.
  
  This one and Kadhal rajjiyam enadhu (Mannavan Vandhanadi) have influenced most of the western beats based Kalyani,Yaman Kalyani (perhaps Behag too)songs.
  
  ARR s Indira "Thoda Thoda" is a good example.
  IR s "Kungumam Manjalukku" & "Endhan Nenjil"(Nalina Kanthi)
  
  

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