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Chords Section in newtfmpage/Dhool

Topic started by MS (@ 129.252.25.241) on Thu Apr 17 01:02:28 EDT 2003.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

In an effort to make dhool a li'l more comprehensive, we are adding a section "chords" for some songs. This table is presently hidden since we have chords only for a few songs. DFers can mail their own set of chords for the songs they have played / written in the format suggested in the Chords conventions page. Take a look at the way the page is arranged and send your chords to andholanam@hotmail.com. Try to make it as complete and accurate as possible including the interludes. This will help others who are searching for chords to use them. Appropriate credits shall be given to those who send the files.

(1) Paatu paadava
(2) Janani Janani
(3) Kuzaloodhum kaNNanukku
(4) nila adhu
(5) ponnondru kaNden
(6) vaseegara
and other chord files are available here - http://dhool.com/chords/articles.htm

some conventions:

http://dhool.com/chords/chords_conventions.htm

BTW, all these files were created by me and pardon the errors if any.

MS

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: UV (@ 134.113.4.168) on: Thu Jul 10 13:21:43 EDT 2003
  
  wow Srik full flow
  musee musical class attend panna madathri oru feeling i dont know even those folks will be this much patient and explain this much detail.
  Wish I had you as my music teacher during my early days
  hats off to you srik
  amazing
  lucky tfm guys thats all i can say
  PS will call you today :)
  
  
• From: Da Vinci (@ 128.113.109.22) on: Thu Jul 10 13:38:29 EDT 2003
  
  Srik,
  
  That was in minor scale. I would use the chords F#m and E. If I did that the seconds note for the G# note cannot be C (nor could it be G# itself which would be second note of the E chord). That is where I get a little confused.
  
  
  
  
  
• From: Srik (@ 64.80.98.165) on: Thu Jul 10 13:44:56 EDT 2003
  
  in that case A (for f#) & B (for G#) would work.
  
  
• From: Srik (@ 64.80.98.165) on: Thu Jul 10 13:46:43 EDT 2003
  
  here B is the second note from the your lead note - g#, which also in your chord structure.
  hope it clears your doubt.
  
  
• From: Swamiji (@ 198.102.112.18) on: Thu Jul 10 15:57:09 EDT 2003
  
  Just to add to what Srikanth said,
  
  The first step in harmonizing a melody is to decide on some sort of chord progession roughly. Once that is done, when choosing individual notes of the chord is where "Voice Leading" comes to play. Voice leading takes each line of melody as a separate entity (or voice) and make it smooth so that a singer can sing it comfortably (atleast, the intention for choral music was just that). Voice leading is I think a subset of part writing. In part writing, as Srikanth said, you have to take into account the octave range of instruments you are writing for.
  
  >>Are the parts on a specific pattern all the time(the third and fifths etc.?).
  
  To answer that question, one has to go back into intervals. Of the various degrees of intervals - there are perfect imperfect & concordant discordant intervals. 5th is perfect - and so is 3rd minor or major - well sort of. All other intervals strongly favor resolution (or forward / backward motion to some other "resting" place). So when you construct triads/"quadras"(for want of a better word) based on 2 or more such intervals, you get chords. Chords take the "flavor" of the intervals it is constructed on. When it has 5th 3rd intervals, the the chord is "satisfied" and needs no resolution.
  
  For example, major minor chords have genrally three levels of separation (interval)
  CMajor chord = C + E + G,
  C-E interval = Maj 3
  E-G interval = Min 3rd
  C-G interval = 5th
  
  On the other hand take 7th chord
  C7 = C + E + G + Bb
  apart from the above,
  G-Bb = Min 3rd
  C-Bb interval = Min 7th
  
  The Minor 7th interval is "restless" interval. It strongly wants to go backward (to A note) so that
  A-C becomes a 3rd interval (more "satisfied" interval). So when Bb goes to A, the G note wants to "adjust" to F so that F-A becomes a 3rd interval and C-F becomes 5th. So you see, C7 - F becomes part of a chord progression by means of resolution...
  
  As you change chords, the relation between each chord becomes important. Some very common chord progessions have chords jump 3rd or 5th. 5th jumps (up or down) form cycle of 5ths.
  for ex: C-F-Bb-Eb-Ab...and so on (upward 5th jump)
  or
  C-G-D-A-E-etc (downward 5th jump)
  
  What is more interesting is when you base a chord progression on a bass note different from the root of a chord, and move that bass note in its own cycle of 5th, you get some cool results.
  For ex take the progression
  C-F-Bb-Eb
  Instead of playing the root bass, start with different bass note and move it up a 5th
  
  C/A - F/D - Bb/G - Eb/C (all minor 7th chords)
  
  or
  
  C/D-F/G-Bb/C-Eb/F
  
  You will hear some of these chords in modern pop / r&b.
  
  More later...
  
  
• From: Rajesh G (@ 167.202.196.72) on: Fri Jul 11 07:33:15 EDT 2003
  
  Aha..Oho..Besh..Pramadham !! aana ennanu than puri mattengarathu :-( Anyways, great going guys ! I appreciate all your enthu in sharing your enormous knowledge.
  
  There is a lotta discussion going on what chords to choose to match the melody..i still have a basic question of when to play a chord on melody. Is there any standard grammar for that ? This is because i don't see a standard pattern on chord intervals. For ex,
  
  In song, 'anjali anjali anjali', i notice that the chords are played in a regular time interval.
  
  but, let's take song 'pani vizhum iravu' and the line 'poovum mullaai mari pogum'. Within this single line, there are 8 chords (sounds grt).
  
  so, how to know when to play a chord ? is it just musician's idea ?
  
  thanks in advance.
  
  
• From: Srik (@ 64.80.98.165) on: Fri Jul 11 08:30:54 EDT 2003
  
  Rajesh...
  When to play a chord on melody,
  
  this is what is called as "the chord pulse" for the melody. I was talking about it yesterday, pulse is hidden in every melody, as and when our training or experience increases in music, this comes out automatically.
  Getting the best chord pulse is quite important and this actually holds the melody tight together,
  and gives meaning/emphasis to the lyrics (if any) , however being a technical aspect of music, 95% of the times, this is not identified by a common indian ear which generally stops with adoring the melody.
  As an exercise I would suggest this,
  try to hear and follow other sounds in the song that are played along, Ignore the melody line,
  concentrate on sounds one by one, you would be surprised to find many things that happen around you.
  
  
• From: Srik (@ 64.80.98.165) on: Fri Jul 11 08:41:05 EDT 2003
  
  abastract of some general rules to follow,
  
  Harmonic pulse meaning, how often the chords change for a melody
  
  Chord change will be a half note or longer when,
  1.If you have fast song (higher tempo) or
  2. If melodies move by thirds
  
  
  Chords change at two-beat pulse when the melody appears to sound as a triads over two beats
  
  One chord per note may be appropriate If the song tempo is slow or very slow.
  
  there are more to confuse you :),
  some call it "thozil ragisyam" or "music theory" imo, over all this comes by practice over period of time.
  
  
• From: Swamiji (@ 12.255.136.14) on: Fri Jul 11 12:22:38 EDT 2003
  
  Yeah, Srikanth is correct. Normally, when the tempo is slow, you could introduce many chord changes per measure (or bar). Fast songs have fewer chord changes per bar. This is not a fixed rule, but basic capacity of the ear to appreciate changes. Very fast chord changes are unneccessary because of our own limitations to hear them.
  When chord chages? - chords can follow their own rythm just like the melody. They respect the meter (or time signature 2/4, 6/8) etc and can change either in the strong or weak beat - or perhaps in some division of a beat (like in a triplet).
  
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.25.241) on: Fri Jul 11 12:43:54 EDT 2003
  
  Just a comment on the fast chord changes: I was trying to write down the chords for sheNbahame sheNabahame. Towards the end of the charaNam we have pretty fast chord changes that pretty much blew me after which Kishmu helped to decipher :-)
  
  
• From: Swamiji (@ 198.102.112.18) on: Fri Jul 11 13:35:16 EDT 2003
  
  That shows IRs temperament I guess! His mind should be as fast as his chord changes!
  
  
• From: lkg (@ 210.193.17.21) on: Sat Jul 12 01:04:52 EDT 2003
  
  Srik, thanks for elaborate sessions. Its great to see you & other great gurujis share information to Lkgs like me (No humbleness,Its a fact).
  Based on my earlier query I would still like to clarify one point
  a) Difference in treatment for Piano & Guitar chords. Though the notes are same, in pianno-notes played all at once, while guitar notes within chords played multiple times in say single strum - Is it just a difference in treatment compared to different musical instruments
  b)Backing of ragam with a chord - It looks like a novel concept. however i am slightly sceptical. say, Revathi, whatever key we play this gives explicit feel of ragam. By backing this raga with chords, will the effect become more pronounced. Is this applicable to only to "light" music.
  c) Getting chords such that the notes in them does not go against notes in raga, throws lot of mathematical combinations. what is the better way to organize. though you have given some rules based on notes in melody, will it be taken as rule.
  d)srik, in your article or even in chords section, is it possible to add audio clip. Moreover for lkgs like time will there be any tutorial kind of stuff, whereby, take for example given in chords section - anjali anjali - how to play this song in step by step fashion. I understand I am asking too much,but could not help.
  
  
• From: Srik (@ 141.156.91.11) on: Sat Jul 12 08:10:21 EDT 2003
  
  Backing of ragam with a chord , it is an enhancement only, some might like it some might not , time and time again I always mention it is a tight rope walk, basically imo after all a ragam is a melody, hope you agree with me,
  if so why cant we harmonize it, I have learnt thru experience 80% of the times it works when done properly. It does fails at some occasions, composer needs to be prudent.
  Secondly this applicable to film or light music, I already classified it as Poly-indian-classical music, I dont see carnatic music only here,
  WC gives little room while carnatic also give some room... this has to be blanced , comes by experience and natural talent.
  goal is to create few more dimensions or parts of the raga in proper harmony, which is a interesting subject. Polyphonic carnatic music is something nice, we have ot in temples, listen to thriupavai rendering by groups, they go in unison and perfect harmony.
  
  Piano and guitar are 2 different instruments they do sound different , it does not affect the melody or the arrangement when used. Composer has to know how to use it,
  
  if time permist , I will try to add clips.
  
  
  
• From: Srik (@ 141.156.91.11) on: Sat Jul 12 08:18:25 EDT 2003
  
  ok, let us do this,
  i will take a raga like sriranjini or abogi I am going to mix it and will not be specfic to save my a** from carnatic pundits,
  I shall come up with a small arrangement with Minimal polyphony and harmony.
  
  to make it more interesting,I was hearing an old msv song yesterday, "katodhu kuzal ada, ada" I will take these words, and create a very simple arrangment.
  
  I will try to record it tonight.
  
  

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