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Chords Section in newtfmpage/Dhool

Topic started by MS (@ 129.252.25.241) on Thu Apr 17 01:02:28 EDT 2003.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

In an effort to make dhool a li'l more comprehensive, we are adding a section "chords" for some songs. This table is presently hidden since we have chords only for a few songs. DFers can mail their own set of chords for the songs they have played / written in the format suggested in the Chords conventions page. Take a look at the way the page is arranged and send your chords to andholanam@hotmail.com. Try to make it as complete and accurate as possible including the interludes. This will help others who are searching for chords to use them. Appropriate credits shall be given to those who send the files.

(1) Paatu paadava
(2) Janani Janani
(3) Kuzaloodhum kaNNanukku
(4) nila adhu
(5) ponnondru kaNden
(6) vaseegara
and other chord files are available here - http://dhool.com/chords/articles.htm

some conventions:

http://dhool.com/chords/chords_conventions.htm

BTW, all these files were created by me and pardon the errors if any.

MS

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.25.241) on: Sat Jul 5 14:44:32 EDT 2003
  
  Keith: I understand D4 as Dsus4.
  
  Onre more song added: sheNbahame shenbahame (asha) from enga ooru paattukkaaran:
  
  http://dhool.com/chords/tamil/shenbagame.htm
  
  
• From: LKG (@ 210.193.17.8) on: Sun Jul 6 02:58:09 EDT 2003
  
  Most of the post here are at advanced level. Is it right place for lkg's?
  Anyway, I understand from Piano books chords nothing but multiple notes played at the same time, while in Guitar chords a way of generating melody itself. I could not correlate between the two. Will someone help. From shrikant article, ragam is played with notes in the chords, does that mean if we limit to the notes in the chords, still can be called as playing the chords?
  
  
• From: Srik (@ 138.88.80.11) on: Sun Jul 6 09:05:02 EDT 2003
  
  lkg ,
  I will try to explain in simple words,
  Chords are set to a progression. They have a pattern, often in cycle of 5th , they should be in proper harmony. When a melody is made we set the melody based on this progression.
  But in indian music which is melodic in nature,
  and often dependent on ragas, we change this method to get chords based on the melody. So we try to define chords structure based on melody, As mentioned in my article we need to step out of rules. This is tight rope, a composer needs to balance the equation properly, Else we will get a confusion rather than a fusion.
  
  also your question is not lkg Dont worry everyone is learning here......:)
  
  
• From: Srik (@ 138.88.80.11) on: Sun Jul 6 09:10:27 EDT 2003
  
  ragam is played with notes in the chords, does that mean if we limit to the notes in the chords, still can be called as playing the chords?
  
  >ragam is played with notes in the chords,
  We actually do the otherwise, we try to fit in chords that are found in the ARO and AVR of the raga. We dont break rules totally by calling sa and pa as cmajor, however in composing a song we can split the chords in 2 or more parts , say bass guitar plays one note in the chord while other 2 notes are played by something instruments. We still get the harmony.
  
  Technically, Chords are used to backup harmony to the melody.
  hope this helps, if not dont hesitate to ask me again, i will try explaining in details.
  
  
  
• From: UV (@ 134.113.4.168) on: Wed Jul 9 12:11:40 EDT 2003
  
  Srik
  wonderful as always great work.
  chord progression for certain ragas is really useful one.
  
  
• From: Srik (@ 64.80.98.165) on: Wed Jul 9 13:17:42 EDT 2003
  
  UV danks, where are u , been searching you last week :), give me a call when time permits.:)
  
  
• From: Da Vinci (@ 128.113.109.22) on: Wed Jul 9 14:06:18 EDT 2003
  
  Srik,
  
  Interesting. Now we all know that the progression of chords has a certain rule. For instance, if we have a song on C-Major the progression would sound right with Am, F, G, Dm. But when a raga is scaled differently say in a pattern : C, C#, E, F, G, G#, B and C, we have various other chords that get into the picture. It doesnt sound discordant either, though a trained ear instantly senses some difference. How does Western music tackle such anomalies, if I may call them so?
  
  
• From: Srik (@ 64.80.98.165) on: Wed Jul 9 14:37:52 EDT 2003
  
  Basically if it is pure western "classical" music, the answer is no, it is not permitted.
  Just like Carnatic, rules are laid very strict. Classical gurus will not let you stray out. They will complain. Secondly chord progression depends on your part writing. They follow strict part writing theory coupled with chord progression.
  As mentioned in the article it is a tight rope walk or walking on ice.
  General rule for me is - this fusion should sound out of tune (main Indian aspect) or out of "harmony" (main western aspect). My personal opinion is,
  When trying to work with Indian and western form of music it is ok to go out of progression theory but maintaining a pseudo harmony to the maximum extent possible. After all we are trying to mix things that are totally different in textures, mood etc.
  
  Real fun comes when we deal with a Sr. European classical musician. Imo, They are Subuddu to the power of 30. Often very critical even on minor things, some will openly criticize and say it not music. Never play the so-called indian-fusion-classial music to these folks and get depressed.:)
  
  Also I have stopped calling this form of music as WC, I call it as PIC - Poly(Phonic)-Indian-classical) :)
  
  
• From: Srik (@ 64.80.98.165) on: Wed Jul 9 14:39:33 EDT 2003
  
  read it as
  
  fusion should "NOT" sound out of tune (main Indian aspect
  -- few things comes from subconscious :)
  
  
• From: Da Vinci (@ 128.113.109.22) on: Thu Jul 10 07:33:31 EDT 2003
  
  Srik,
  
  Can you please elaborate on 'part writing'?
  
  
  
• From: Srik (@ 64.80.98.165) on: Thu Jul 10 08:53:23 EDT 2003
  
  Da Vinci,
  It is a very big concept, which we can keep talking for a semester. Let me try to put it in a nut shell one of the main aspect of part writing in western classical music is equal importance or emphasis should be given on both harmony and Line (Melody), at times harmony is called as vertical and line is called as horizontal. When we write music we call these aspects of music as voice leading or partswriting. In part writing we focus on Soprano, Alto, Tenor, Bass or SATB. To write parts for these 4 elements there are many parameters we need to keep in take care of.
  Range: each of this elements should be in certain fixed octave range only, unless score warrants overlapping of ranges across SATB should be avoided, however I have heard work that has overlaps (Bach especially). Motion: The direction the parts move, they can be Parallel, Similar, Oblique are few I remember now.
  There are some rules and procedures to be followed, always stay within ranges of voices, keep the tone std all through., use the notes that are part of the harmony, there is one called 7/7 rule on resolving dominant chords. Make sure the motion is not unnecessary or redundant. So these are few things to remember when arranging a score.
  Now try to see how to fit carnatic and western , we have only the line, we need to construct the veriticals
  
  btw: where there is an average 12hrs gap in your posting? :)
  
  
• From: Srik (@ 64.80.98.165) on: Thu Jul 10 09:17:05 EDT 2003
  
  I will also add this tips on harmonizing a melody, might be a over dose, but still people interested can get the shot. :)
  
  First try to determine the harmony in the melody, like when we sing hamsadwani we know there are major chords around. So try to find the harmonic pulse, meaning how often the chords change, like if the melody is slow, meaning has longer duration of notes, one chord per note will do the job.
  For single notes, there will be three possible triads (the root, third or fifth). For beats with more than one note, there may be less, or even only one, getting the pulse is something makes the melody stand up. Imo, A.R.Rahman is my guru in this aspect. He will get the pulse of the melody perfect to the core. Split the score into bars or phrases and try to figure out possible triads in the harmony. List out all of them as you will never know which one will get you the right chords for the proper pulse. After this, you should build the harmonic cadence that fits the melody.
  You might also hit a dead end in the progression, meaning chords might not resolve at the end of cadence, you many choose a different set of chords to come out it.
  I can go on, however this theory is too complex to ponder more here, more you start theoretical approach on melody writing, it becomes more hard and algorithmic, so best solution for an East-Indian melody is use your “natural god given creativity”
  if your ears accept it -- just go for it.
  
  
• From: learning_never_ends (@ 138.220.19.180) on: Thu Jul 10 10:18:25 EDT 2003
  
  Srik,
  
  I've been following your articles and am unexplainably glad and happy that you have taken so much pain and time to elob abt these topics.
  
  BTB, Can you please elucidate your tips on harmonizing a melody with an example. Being a lesser-mortal, Theory takes me for a ride.
  
  Any ARR example will do :)
  
  Thx a ton, keep up the great the job
  learning_never_ends
  
  
• From: Srik (@ 64.80.98.165) on: Thu Jul 10 11:06:37 EDT 2003
  
  no probs, please send me an email
  srikanth@srikanthd.com, I prefer stay from discussing about my personal opinions here. :)
  
  
• From: Da Vinci (@ 128.113.109.22) on: Thu Jul 10 11:18:58 EDT 2003
  
  Srik,
  
  Thank you for the very informative info !
  
  Are the parts on a specific pattern all the time(the third and fifths etc.?). How does one sing 'seconds' usually ? What pattern does it normally follow ?
  
  Say, this is the notes of a tune:
  
  F# F# F# F# G# G# F# E G#(sustain 2beats) E(sustain 4beats)
  
  E C#
  
  F# F# F# F# G# G# F# E G#(sustain 2beats) E(sustain 4beats)
  
  how would you normally construct the parts of it ?
  
  I appreciate your time on it. As you say, I go by what my 'ears accept' while I work on the vocals, but I just wanted to know the precise mechanism of it.
  
  
  PS: "btw: where there is an average 12hrs gap in your posting? :)"
  
  Was it directed at me ? If so, I dont understand it !
  
  
  
• From: Srik (@ 64.80.98.165) on: Thu Jul 10 11:50:52 EDT 2003
  
  When you say seconds, i think you are refereing to backing harmony for a melody, if so this is based on the chords progression of the song.
  eg:listen to simiii by rahaman, so in your example I will assume chords to be
  F# MAJOR and G#major, the harmony notes can be other 2 notes in the f# major chord , since you say “seconds” it will be second note in the chord. A#, So the next note G#, whose seconds will be C
  F# G#
  A# C
  Listen to ninokori varnam by ilayaraja , there will be guitar backup over the melody in this kind of harmony. Or pove sempove the string over the pallavi will play the harmony seconds.
  Talking about voicing, meaning arrangement of chords Chorale will be best example, it is a composition that has four parts that where all notes move along approximately at the same rate, (also called homophonic) with both harmonic progression and individual voice having equal importance. Rahman used it theendai where is vocals chorale.
  And also on what part you are writing. There are 2 type I know of open and closed, closed is often used in pianos or keyboards where top 3 notes are well within the octave or 2 notes on right and the lower bass note is played with the left hand However monophonic is dragging at long run, so it is better to be polyphonic instead. Other types of voicing are arpeggiation, Alberti
  (common in piano schools, the left hand plays sa pa ga sa or c g e g) while right plays the melody.
  So your seconds depends or harmony on the type of music you work on.
  
  opps that should read
  why there is an average 12hrs gap :)
  
  
• From: Srik (@ 64.80.98.165) on: Thu Jul 10 11:57:46 EDT 2003
  
  read it
  your seconds or harmony depends on the type of music you work on.
  
  Da vinci, hope i answered you, these things i learnt in 85-90's
  thanks for recharging my memory:)
  
  

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