Home   Forum   Wiki   Notes   Register   FAQ   Sitemap   About Us   Contact Us  

Pronounciation in TFM songs

Topic started by muthax (@ user-38ld829.dialup.mindspring.com) on Sun Sep 13 03:45:16 EDT 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Hi guys,

TFM has seen lots of singers from other languages. Some have/are
ruled/ruling the TFM for so many years. Many of these singers started
to sing in tamil without even knowing to read and write in tamil.
Still those songs have been a big hit, for the tune, lyrics and
ofcourse their talent to bring the emotion in the song. In quite a few
occasions i have noticed singers like KJY have missed some finer aspects
of singing a song - the Pronounication. Not to blame the singers
i feel the MDs of such songs shud have taken more care on the
pronounciation aspects of these singers.

In this thread i would like to mention few songs of K.J.Y where he
missed the pronounciation. This is *not to criticise* KJY or
any other singer. But just to discuss this aspect in singing a song.
I would like u all to mention other such song/singers u have come across

1. Senthazham poovil vandhadum thendral en meedhu modhudhamma
poovaasam medai podudhamma penn bolae jaadai pesudhamma

whereas it shud have been Polae

same song the line

2. Maravaen Maraven arBudha kaatchi.

where as it shud have been arPutha.

3. Ninaivaalae silai seidhu unakaaga vaithen
Therukoilae odi vaa....

whereas it shud be thru-koilae

same song
4. sendhoora bendham......

whereas it shud be sendhoora bandham

guys pour more singers and songs...

Muthax

---

Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Neels (@ 202.54.125.176) on: Wed Jan 13 04:28:46 EST 1999
  
  The pronounciation in most of the songs in JEANS is pretty bad. For instance, Unni Krishnan sings in one of the songs,
  'VaLam Varuvom' instead of Valam Varuvom.
  
  Well, compared to ARR's Tamizh Kolai in 'Columbus', this is nothing.
  VM enna pannararo therialai!
  
  Remember IRUVAR? It had a poetry recital by Arvind Swamy. The song was hyped as one of VM's best efforts ever by all and sundry and the fact that Arvind Swamy was lending his angry-young man voice was written about in every magazine.
  
  "Ratham Kodhikka Vaikkum Kavithayo Illayo, Enga Ellar Rathamum Kodichudu Ennavo UNmai"
  
  Man, this guy butchered Tamil.
  
  Neels
  
  
• From: aruvi (@ spc-isp-tor-uas-75-17.sprint.ca) on: Wed Jan 13 08:14:22 EST 1999
  
  Shanmugam Murugappan
  
  SJ is from Andhra Pradesh. If you want, refer to the latest interview in Vikatan where she mentions that she did not study malayalam, tamil, kannada or hindi, but they just came to her.
  
  
• From: Shankar (@ webgate0.mot.com) on: Wed Jan 13 10:31:03 EST 1999
  
  Neels,
  ...and that kavidai was meant for the character selvam which portrays Dr.Karunanidhi!!!!!
  
  
• From: RajaG (@ cerberus5.fon.sprintcorp.com) on: Wed Jan 13 17:36:03 EST 1999
  
  I hate to bring this up again, but does anybody else feel as strongly as I do in saying that "Thamizh pronunciation and language murder" accelerated (or may be started and accelerated) with the advent of ARR. Comments please.
  
  
• From: Shanmugam Murugappan (@ 208.236.83.16) on: Wed Jan 13 17:54:11 EST 1999
  
  RajaG,
  
  I too feel that it all started with ARR because he was the one to introduce Suresh Peters. There are some people who say that "chikkubukku rayilae" was supposed to be sung in that manner, but I can't remember any other song which tried to "murder" Thamizh before "chikku bukku". Even ARR used good singers (By saying "good" here, I mean people who can pronounce "Thamizh" better) for his first two films "Roja" and "Pudhiya Mugam". If you can see, he used SPB, PS, Unni Menon, Sujatha and Chithra in those films. But, came "Gentleman" and the song "chikku bukku" became a super hit. The result - after that one or the other film had a song like that - "konjam nilavu" and "thee thee" (Thiruda Thiruda - When I heard them the first time, I couldn't understand many words in that song. I thought it was "konjum nilavu" and "then then"), "paalakkaattu machaanukku" (May Maadham), "kuluvaalilae" ("Muthu"), "muthu muthu" (Mr.Romeo). Suresh Peters himself became a MD and he sung in his own music for the film "Coolie" (for Sarath Kumar). It sounded something like "ada kattu katta note irukku kaasu namma kaiyil vandhu sendhirukku". Similarly, there was one such song in the film "Captain" (MD : Sirpi). Other MDs also used SP and other such singers. To add to that, ARR himself started singing with "Humma Humma". Before "Gentleman", I couldn't remember any song with so much "Thamizh kolai". Some songs were not clear but that may be due to the recording quality. But, as such, "Thamizha kazhutha nerichu kolai" panra maadhiri paattukkaL varra aarambichadhu SP vandhadhukku appuramdhaan. Adharku main kaaranam ARR dhaan.
  
  
• From: Neels (@ 202.54.125.198) on: Thu Jan 14 01:28:49 EST 1999
  
  RajaG,
  I agree with you fully. ARR heralded in a brand new 'wave' in Tamizh Cinema and along with came these 'rajas of lyrics masacres' like Suresh Peters (and ARR himself)
  
  OH! Palakkattu Machanukku was a real killer (not in the complimentary sense)
  I buy this album May Madham by ARR and I listen to a stunning number "Minnale Nee Vandhadenadi", a classic number by ARR soulfully rendered by SPB and "En Mael Vizhunda Mazhaithuliye" sung with such emotion by Unni and Chitra. And this awful song "Palakkattu Machanukku" comes in as a jolt!
  
  God! I can't stand that kid GV Prakash in the first place, but ARR gives me bad singers in spades, by teaming up the kid with Suresh Peters!!! And their pronounciation is the worst I've ever come across. Sunita Rao didn't sound good either in the "AAdipparu Mangatha" song in the above album.
  
  "Ettu MAadi Veedu KaTTi
  Kotta Pogudai Nottu"
  
  -------- Adukkappuram Enna Sunitamma? Onnume puriyalaye?--------------
  
  Other albums that saw the height of Tamizh Padugolai were, Love Birds & Mr. Romeo.
  It's high time ARR realises that gimmiks like getting Apache Indian doesn't always work!
  
  In fact, he should get a Tamizh tutor for himself, if he is serious about coming up with more albums like vande Mataram with Sony and the likes.
  In my opinion, he can come up with instrumental albums (like Robert Miles, for instance). THAT would save us from lyrical padugolai.
  
  Neels
  
  
• From: RS (@ sungold3.uk.ibm.com) on: Thu Jan 14 05:28:20 EST 1999
  
  Neels,
  
  Is 'En mel vizhuntha mazhaithuliye' not my Jayachandran and chithra. i was under the impression that its by JC.
  Pl. confirm!!
  
  Nan onnu sonna yaarum ennai thappa ninaichukka koodathu. While talking about the pronunciation,
  i have found the bad pronunciation in M S subbulakshmi songs(Incredible is 'nt it!!)
  Aana, avangalai enakku pidikkum. But style-a pronunce panren-nu sollittu niraiya Songs-a thappa pronunce panni irukkanga! Also in non-filmy shlogas!
  
  (PS: By saying this if i have offended anyone, pl.accept my sincere apologies)
  
  
  
  
• From: RajaG (@ cerberus5.fon.sprintcorp.com) on: Thu Jan 14 13:25:22 EST 1999
  
  RS,
  
  I am in complete agreement with you on MSS. In fact I played an MSS song (supposedly in Bengali)to a friend of mine. He was still waiting for the "Bengali" words after the song was over. I am not sure if she had flaws in Thamizh but her other languages were "padugolais" in pronunciation, accent and style.
  En Mel Vizhundha is by JC, and Paalakkattu Machchaanukku is by Noel (ARR's secretary). BTW does my hearing needs to be tested or does Hariharan say "avaL varuvaalaa" instead of "avaL varuvaaLaa" in nErukku nEr ?
  
  
• From: Shanmugam Murugappan (@ 208.236.83.16) on: Thu Jan 14 14:37:19 EST 1999
  
  RS and RajaG,
  
  Are you guys sure that MSS had flaws in her pronounciation? This is shocking really. I thought she was one singer who can never have any flaws and she was a complete singer. After reading your posting, it reminds me of the fact that "ellarum manushangadhaan and to err is human".
  
  
• From: Shanmugam Murugappan (@ 208.236.83.16) on: Thu Jan 14 14:38:52 EST 1999
  
  RajaG,
  
  Hariharan did sing "aval varuvaaLa" only in "Nerukku Ner".
  
  
• From: RS (@ sungold6.uk.ibm.com) on: Fri Jan 15 04:19:14 EST 1999
  
  Shanmugam,
  
  ippadi yaaravathu ninaippanga-nu than nan oru disclaimer potten. I agree in totto that she is very sound in music. what i certainly feel is she thinks she sings in a stylist way and purposely pronunce improperly. Thats what i feel.
  Many a time i have noticed this in Sanskrit.
  
  
• From: Shanmugam Murugappan (@ 208.236.83.16) on: Fri Jan 15 21:21:10 EST 1999
  
  
  Hi,
  
  Have you people listened to the song (?!) "unakkum .... oru macham ....thalaivarukku macham udambellaam" (or something which sounded like that!!!) from the film "Captain"? The film was a Sarath Kumar, Suganya and Ranjitha starrer and this particular song (or is there some other proper term for these kind of noises?) was sung by Suresh Peters for Raju Sundaram (Prabhu Deva's brother). That is one of the many fitting examples for "Attempt to Murder Thamizh".
  
  
• From: Kuttipapa (age 4 months!) (@ prsyb107-27.splitrock.net) on: Fri Jan 15 23:51:18 EST 1999
  
  Hi guys,
  
  I am a new comer to this DF. I am not sure if this was discussed before. When we talk about pronunciation, who can forget S Janaki in the song "Andhi Mazhai" from Raja Paarvai. In the stanzas, she sings "..Thavani Visirigial Veeshugiren" (instead of veesugiren); you would expect that IR/VM would have corrected that. Lo and behold, she continues with "Manmathan Ambugal Thaitha Idangalil Sandhanamam Enai Pooshugiren" (instead of poosugiren). In fact, I can recollect lot of songs where SJ did this (sa sha kolai). However, I don't deny that she is a great singer - "Kaatril Endhan Geetham" from Jaani alone shows that.
  
  A digression to Karthi:
  
  I guess "nee tharum VaaLum..." refers to Sanga Thamizh (Aga Naanooru/Pura Naanooru) where the mother sends the young kids (Paal manam mara balagan, like me) to war. Supposed to mean something about bravery. Bharathidasan uses it in the same context. However, I agree that it doesn't make any sense in this particular song!
  
  
• From: Shankar (@ webgate0.mot.com) on: Sat Jan 16 03:20:40 EST 1999
  
  pAppa,
  
  There r diff types of "sa"s in brahmin dialect.
  one is 'sa' as in sangamam. another is 'sha' as in shankar.The third one which doesn't have any letter to represent it in tamil ,but used extensively by brahmins (esp of palghat origin),is "s'a". it's that "sa" which is used in s'aguni,s'ani etc.
  
  Actually when 'sa' is followed by a "mei" ezhuthu it is pronounced the way u tell shankar.
  
  when it's followed by an uyir mei ezhuthu like "gu" or "ni" it's pronounced the way SJ pronounces poosugurEn. (All the above w.r.t to mallu-tamil dialect).
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ 207.43.195.201) on: Mon Jan 18 12:19:14 EST 1999
  
  Shankar,
  
  To add to your point, if one listened to Sudha Ragunathan, one will find a lot of examples for Brahmin pronunciation. BTW if your reference to "mallu-tamil dialect" is in the context of SJ's heritage, just wanted to let you know that SJ is Telugu not Malayali.
  
  

---

List all pages of this thread

Post comments