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SPB the greatest singer that India had ever produced

Topic started by greatest_spb_fan (@ 212.2.14.241) on Thu Aug 2 04:57:19 EDT 2001.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

why don't anybody start a thread like 'SPB the greatest singer that India had ever produced', pls

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Raguvaran (@ 212.2.14.241) on: Thu Aug 16 09:49:19 EDT 2001
  
  NCR; we are talking abt SPB, here
  
  
• From: NCR (@ 206.30.30.2) on: Thu Aug 16 10:43:51 EDT 2001
  
  Raguvaran
  
  I know about this topic. I am just replying to IMF in my earlier posting. Atleast I am talking about singers, I dont think I digressed to much.
  
  When this topic is claiming SPB the greatest, how come you decide without discussing about others who has achieved more or less the same? Just talk about SPB and say he is great, then it just a statement without proof.
  
  Few claim SPB greatest because he acted in movies, He was worked as an MD, I was informing there were others also who did similar things.
  
  
• From: Raguvaran (@ 212.2.14.241) on: Thu Aug 16 11:16:47 EDT 2001
  
  ncr;
  
  What proofs do you require to proof that SPB is the greates?, I will suplly them if u can.
  
  
• From: ram (@ gw-ehv03.pnl.philips.com) on: Thu Aug 16 11:21:02 EDT 2001
  
  Swami sir,Thanks for your Xellent posting.
  Bharath, i dont frankly think Swami sir is "those nice old days" sort of person.
  He hasnt anywhere talked wrong about any singer and no hint abosultely about condeming the current generation, but given a great analysis.
  Anyway though i am not capable of such analysis, one thing i can tell you is MR and KK still remain the gods in hfm in the youngest to oldest age grps.Shows that they were beyond that era.
  In TFM we have had great singers but the style has gradually evolved. Focus has shifted from each singer as it was slow evolution and now its SPB.
  If you combine that great analysis from Swami with the fact that MR-KK still rule the hfm hearts it only means they will live forever.
  Thanks sir
  
  
• From: Annamalai (@ webcacheh04a.cache.pol.co.uk) on: Thu Aug 16 15:41:21 EDT 2001
  
  ram;
  
  You are just talking abt HFM, not TFM, SPB is in every ones hearts in TFM & IFM
  
  
• From: Annamalai (@ webcacheh04a.cache.pol.co.uk) on: Thu Aug 16 15:49:00 EDT 2001
  
  >>chupkey chupkey" where both of them sing together i found kishore's voice to have a better depth and punch than rafi's ....
  which i could find in SPB..
  
  << I totally agree with this statements that SPB has better depth voice(bass) & punch (dard) than rafi, although rafi was great, his voice is often soft!
  
  
  
• From: Sriram Lakshman (@ a060-0627.snfc.splitrock.net) on: Fri Aug 17 04:41:27 EDT 2001
  
  Dear Mr. Swami,
  Your write-up generated a lot of interest initially because it looked meaty. Furthermore, when you mentioned that you were closely associated with those greats, I sat up and started reading the posting wide-eyed till the point you quoted 'pardA hai pardA' as an example of a well rendered qawwali. I thought that this was going to be the only sour note and kept reading on but kept getting disappointed too.
  
  I will use this posting only to counter the points that you have placed on the table. I will explore SPB's assets (against the points you have made) later as a plethora of ideas and perceptions come gushing into my mind when I decide to write about him. There are far too many facets to his singing capabilities.
  
  1.First of all, 'pardA hai pardA' is a very typically average Laxmikanth-Pyarelal composition not really aided by a very average rendition. This was a period of Rafi's comeback of sorts after KK's meteoric rise had gnawed away at his market. This is a song where Rafi's voice flares up at certain points which is not becoming of a seasoned singer. You have conveniently overlooked the mother of all qawwalis 'nA tO carvAn ki talAsh hai' where Manna Dey has Rafi and the other professional qawwali singer, all sized up. A flawless Asha in 'nigAhen milanE kO jee chAhtha hai' comes to mind but never the song you have quoted....first counter.
  2. Lack of punch in SPB's delivery (in a live program) of Rafi's hits.... the original 'chAnd mEra dil' is no great shakes and is another Rafi's 'second innings' song. SPB savours the song, incorporates sangathis and variations and even beautifully puts forth the word 'door' in the line 'chAnd sE hai door' , spreading it accross a couple of bars (and therefore squeezing the preceding and the succeeding words) to accentuate the meaning. (This reminds me of Ghulam Ali rendering the word 'dEr' in the line 'badi dEr sE barbAd' in the viruththam of 'humkO kisnE gam nE mArA') It amazes me when I realize that you had actually overlooked all this to point out the 'missing' punch in SPB's version, whereas I was actually searching for the non-existant punch in the original. As always, Rafi's brighas in this song lacked control and conviction.
  
  3.The example of 'ShankarabharanamO' was a clever point to attack. But here is my rebuttal, 'ShankarabharanamO' is a much more difficult song to render than the much hyped 'madhuban mEin RadhikA nachE rE' where Rafi's voice flares up when he renders the swaram 'Ni' and threatens to fall into the 'abaswaram' category. This is a song that can be rendered by any average singer.
  
  4. You have considered the voice range as a main criteria at various points and have taken the extra effort to emphasize. I concur with you on the fact that Rafi could effortlessly glide his way up a scale (like in 'bahut shukriyA'), but here comes the issue, he was very pedestrian when it came to doing a 'few things' on the way up, like a roll,a brigha,a variation. The line 'dAman kO ththAmA' in the song 'dil jO na keh sakA' is a good example for illustrating my point. You want to know what sustaining the pitch and doing a 'few things' is? Please listen to 'nilai mArinathAlE enthan munnAlE' in 'mullai malar mElE'. TMS does a mini alaap without ever giving the semblance of faultering. Listen to 'vadivElum mayilum thuNai' in Ambikapathy, you would revise your opinions on what 'ruling high notes' is all about.
  
  5. Expressions.... you have quoted 'chchalkAyE jhAm' another run-of-the-mill L-P composition. Have you heard 'sorgam mathuvilE' (a similar situation based song) composed by IR for SPB? SPB expresses melancholy subtly with the gay abandon of a drunkard. Rafi's songs for Shammi Kapoor are as popular as they are today because they were the first of their kind. Rafi was the pioneer in expressive singing and I express my gratitude for that. But even in those chirpy songs, apart from delivering the words in a funny manner, there was hardly anothing for me to savour. Not after I had heard, 'mAveduththu pookkOlam', 'namma ooru singAri' and 'ninaiththu pArkirEn en nenjam inikkindrathu'. Listen to these songs and you will realise that SPB has not left a single word unattended and brings in lots of exciting variations and improvisations without ever losing the feel, no mean task. Compare this with 'chAnd sa rOshan chehra', Rafi does a good job in this song, but when the punch line (tAreef karoon) gets repeated several times towards the end, even a bathroom singer (like your's truly :) would be tempted to bring in variations, but no, Rafi doesn't.
  
  6. Ghazals....There is gentleman called Ghulam Ali, there used to be a Mehndi Hassan and our own India has a Hariharan. I rest my case here.
  
  
  Considering all the above points, when some of my northie pals start talking about 'yEh chAnd sa rOshan chehrA' and the likes, I politely agree with them that they were the first of their kind, but you know, there is a self-effacing artiste who lives in Kamdar Nagar, Kodambakkam......
  
  Rafi stand tall amongs in expressive playback singing, but there is singer who stands taller and fatter (;) , that is SPB. I sincerely wish he renounces his humility and starts getting factual.
  
  I sincerely wish I could find links for the SPB songs I have mentioned here , absolutely masterly singing, to be experienced by every music lover.
  
  
  
• From: SL (@ a060-0627.snfc.splitrock.net) on: Fri Aug 17 04:46:19 EDT 2001
  
  correction....Rafi stand tall amongst most singers......
  
  
• From: SL (@ a060-0627.snfc.splitrock.net) on: Fri Aug 17 04:52:51 EDT 2001
  
  I politely agree with them that they were the first of their kind, but you know, there is a self-effacing artiste who lives in Kamdar Nagar, Kodambakkam...... most importantly...I stiffle a yawn when I say this :))
  
  
• From: cosmician (@ nc5.emirates.net.ae) on: Fri Aug 17 05:27:42 EDT 2001
  
  Ithan..Ithan...Indhu mathiri our analysis thaan edhirparthom !!!
  
  Good one SL !!
  
  
• From: Ram (@ gw-ehv03.pnl.philips.com) on: Fri Aug 17 09:36:27 EDT 2001
  
  SL,
  Mr swami was atleast giving general opinions along with his analysis.
  Yours are pure personal opinions.
  What else does one make out from ur remarks like
  "pardA hai pardA' is a very typically average Laxmikanth-Pyarelal composition not really aided by a very average rendition."
  
  You are a 100% hypocrite. Who knows you may pick one TMS-Susheela Quawalli (if it can be called that) and call it better than "PHP".
  "Na to karwaan" was among the first and as such finds that limelight.Its more known for the quawaali tune and lyrics than for the rendiction, though Manna has done great job.
  
  No one tells your so called self effacing artists to speak on Rafi.
  They could have as well talked about Balamurali,GhantaS,TMS.....but WHY did they?
  
  No one told Manna to speak on Rafi but he did WHY?He called him the best.I am not blabbering like you..its on record in TVS saregama- a fact. The quawaali you mentioned of Manna came at a very initial period of Rafi.Mr swami if i remember said that Rafi had a soft voice to start of with. Manna said to start of Rafi was a normal singer but then in a short span he rose above all others.The anchor was praising Manna (guest+judge) and Manna stopped him and said only Rafi deserved such praise.Why would a senior artist do this?Any day i consider there knoweledge of Brighas and variations to be more than mine and yours.
  
  We have heard TMS and you sure would have heard "Tulluvado illamai".He surely isnt suited for such songs.A great tune spoiled by heavy voice and limited singing.He wasnt suited for any number which went a little fast.
  And talking about AAlap.. ever heard the concert version of "Duniya Key". Check out to discover what undiluted effortless aalap is all about.
  
  
  Then you call chalkAyE jhAm' as another run-of-the-mill L-P and tell those SPB numbers are better.Its your opinion. If you find something funny about some Rafi songs most northies find SPB unbearable to say the least. Its a perspective.
  I can understand both and in spite of your examples i disagree with you (I am entitled to my view as you r, right).
  But what certainly is funny is the remark that Rafi lacked variations. (Try singing some songs mentioned by Mr. Swami in front of a crowd preferably northy. NO-For ur safety choose SPB song and a southy audience)
  The above song mentioned by swami is a fast one there are quite a few slow ones in that drunkard category and each one in my opinion is better than those SPB's mentioned by you.
  One correction is that "Chalkaye" is not a similar situation song as the one you have mentioned.
  (No melancholy in Chal. jam)
  
  When SP sang Rafis numbers in that show it was atleast bearable but he killed kishore songs.Sad to see a genius running out of breath.It was funny listening to SP's version of "Musafir hoon yaaron" . Some places looked like he didnt have a clue, and for someone who you think can spread words across bars he was trying real hard straining his voice.Kishore's vocal power seemed too much to attempt.U right SP should be factual.
  
  And talking of our own indian ghazal singer "Hariharan" you are not countering any statement of swami.Hariharan's crowd is limited and well you can check with fans of masters like Mehdi Hassan, what they feel of HariHarans ghazal. You can be sued for putting HH's name in the same line as Mehdi.Too many limitations to be discussed.
  SPB is probably the greatest in south.FULL STOP.
  I cant imagine and accept him to be a better singer than Kishore and Rafi.Most will concurr.
  Neengalu onga analysisoon.
  
  
• From: fan (@ 202.9.181.219) on: Fri Aug 17 10:35:17 EDT 2001
  
  mr ram, you do not know much about spb. you have perhaps not heard much of his songs. please do not write about kishore, hari, others etc when writing about the don of Indian Film music. please, if you do not know about spb, ask us,i.e. those who claim spb is the greatest , we will explain to you.
  
  

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