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Kannadhaasan Vs. Vairamuthu TFM Symposium Topic 6: Samudhaaya Seerthirutha / Puratchi Paadalgal

Topic started by Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on Tue Aug 11 19:17:02 EDT 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

For a good understanding of how to approach this ongoing symposium, please refer to the thread, "Kannadhaasan Vs. Vairamuthu TFM Symposium Topic 1:Iyarkai Varnanai" before you post. Let me reiterate that this is not a patti mandram, but a research symposium.
Please show TFM examples of both poets with regards to just their Samudhaaya Seerthirutha / Puratchi Paadalgal for this thread.
Please provide the name of the song whose lines you excerpt and the name of the movie if known. Here are the symposium categories, the bold topics are yet to be discussed:
1)Iyarkai Varnanai
2)Kaadhal Paadalgal
3)Thaththuva Paadalgal
4)Vaarthai Prayoagam
5)Nagaichchuvai Paadalgal
6)Samudhaaya Seerthirutha / Puratchi Paadalgal
7)Vingyaana/Naveena Karuthoottum Paadalgal
8)Ilakkiya Moolam Ulla Paadalgal
9)Kadhaikku Porundhiya Paadalgal(situational songs)
10)Kavidhai Milekarkal (Poetic Milestones that the poets will be remembered by!)

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Kanchana (@ spider-pa032.proxy.aol.com) on: Wed Aug 12 15:27:45 EDT 1998
  
  Thx Udhaya for doing the cut & paste (BTW, do I remember you arguing that VM is the King of Exploitation of Women & therefore a total chauvinist in that thread? There is some good ironic humor here :-)]
  
  Just for the record and a dose of reality and healthy balance, let me complete my thought which was truncated above: "Presenting such progressive and liberated TFM verses with a strong punch to them made me feel very very good. However, all good times come to an end and we do need to ask ourselves what % of the songs written by a lyricist deal with women's liberation versus their total exploitation as sex objects, given the industry climate today."
  
  An FYI -- Manisekaran, Sathya Kabali, Shyam, Sathiya Keerthi, Bhaskar, Arvind, Gopal, and I (sorry if I'm forgetting more names here) covered several Kannadhasan kavidhaigaL and VM kavidhaigaL in a thread called "thiraippAdalagaLil samudhAyak karuththukkaL" which explored this topic quite comprehensively for all TFM poets starting from the 1940s to now.
  
  Have fun, will be back later as time permits.....
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Wed Aug 12 15:40:47 EDT 1998
  
  Prakash, that is certainly not the intention. Kannadhaasan won hands down in "Kaadhal Paadalgal" and "Thaththuva Paadalgal" topics. VM slightly edged out Kannadhaasan in "Iyarkkai Varnanai". "Vaarththai Prayoagam" was a tie after votes. If you want to leave it open for more votes that is possible too. "Nagaichchuvai Paadalgal" could go any way. My judgement alone has been given. And counting yours for Kannadhaasan, we are starting with a tie there, but it could get a definite vote, who knows.
  So, if everything else is a tie from here on, Kannadhaasan would edge out VM based on winning 2 rounds to VM's 1 round. If decisive votes are given for the rest of the topics (Topic 10 is a collection of milestones by both poets, so no votes there!)I would say the conclusions are still nobody's guess, only the summations by the DFers based on discussed lyrics will dictate that.
  I understand your feelings, but this is not a bogus symposium with a foregone conclusion. I wouldn't waste all of our efforts to come out with a plain do-goody judgement like Kannadhaasan=VM. This is a research project to objectively compare two poets, based on their works and not on personal agendas.
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Wed Aug 12 15:55:14 EDT 1998
  
  Kanchana, if I didn't take that stance you and Ramki wouldn't have dug up the stuff you did for that Patti Mandram. Anyway, I never did say VM was the King of exploitation, I singled him out for his change for the worse and his current prominence and stature. Good to see your postings again.
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Wed Aug 12 19:57:10 EDT 1998
  
  I listened to Kanchana's suggestion and checked out this marvelous thread about Samuthaaya Karuththukkal. I have very slightly edited and formatted the follwing from that thread.
  From: shyam (@ 192.147.35.56) on: Mon Apr 20 11:52:54 EDT 1998
  Padam : muthu mandabam
  Pattu : Kannadasan
  Kural : TMS
  
  Sonaalum vetkamata sollavettal thukamada
  dukamillamal vetkamillamal vaadukirEn oru pakkamada aaaa aaaa
  
  pai virithu padupavarum vai thiranthu thuungu kiraar
  panjanayil naan paduthum nenjil oor amaithi illai
  panjanayil naan paduthum nenjil oor amaithi illai
  konjivarum kiLikaL elllam kodum paambai maaruthada kothivettu buthanai pol sathiyamai vaazuthada
  
  illatha manithanaku "illai" endurm thollayada.
  ullavanin vaazkayilE "ullathellam" thollayada.
  
  annamillai endrallum
  amaithi konda maanidayanE
  unn vaazvai ninaikayilE en manathu thavikuthada
  unn vaazvai ninaikayilE en manathu thavikuthada
  vana muthu mandapamamum
  vaira nagai panjanaiyum
  unnidathil naan tharuveen nimathiyai neetharuvai
  
  What wonderful lines by Kannadhaasan.
  
  MGR:
  Ippadithaan Irukka Vendum Pombalai
  Inguleeshu Padichalum Inbathamizh Naattiley
  Ippadithaan Irukka Vendum Pombalai
  
  KRV:
  Unga Sotapdiyey Nadanthukkolren Sollunga
  Eppadi Eppadi Irukkanumo Appadi Appadi Maathunga
  Sotpadiyey Nadanthukkiren Sollunga
  
  MGR:
  Maanam Paartha Vivasayinga Naadu Allavo?-Ingu
  Maanam Naanam Pengalukku Aadaiyallavo?
  Ippadithaan Irukkqa Vendum Pombalai
  
  Udal Azhagai Ooru MEcha Kaattakkoodathu-Meley
  Uduppukalai Iduppu Theriya Maattakoodathu
  Uthattu Meley Sivappu Saayam Theettakkoodathu
  Uzhavarukku Thaguntha Panbai Maatrakoodathu
  Ippadithaan Irukka Vendum Pombalai
  
  KRV:
  Naalukku Naal Nagarigam Maaridumbothu-Konjam
  Naaamalumthaan Maarikkitta
  Athuley thappEthu
  
  MGR:
  Poo Mudicha Koonthal Pazhaya Neelam Irukkutha Ippo
  Pombalainga Ellathukkum Puruvam Irukkutha?
  Kazhuthai Theinji Katterumbaachu Naattiley-PenkaL
  Kaariyathai Aambillai Paarkiraan Veettiley
  
  KRV:
  Ellaroda Ennayum Neenga Serkkakkoodathu-Velai
  Ethu Koduthaalum Seiven Thappathu
  
  MGR:
  Kalai Edukkanum; Velaiya Vaikkanum
  Kathiru Muthina Vayalarukkanum
  Kattu Chumakkanum Kalamum Serkkanum
  Kaala NEram Kadathidamey
  Naala Velayum Naamey Paarkkanum
  
  "vanna muthu mandapamum vaira nagai panjanayum unnidathil naan tharuveen nimathiyai nee tharuvai"
  
  oru panakkaran Ezaiyidam "naan enketta irukira ella porulayum thareen, nimathiyaiai anku thaariya" endru
  keetpathu pola irkuku.
  --
  illatha manithanum "illai" endrum thollayada...
  
  It has 2 meanings
  1. No problem to Ezai
  2. No food, no place, no proper drss is a problem.
  ----------------
  in kELvi piranthathu andru -- pachai viLakku
  
  aandaan atimai mEloor kIzoor anbathu maaraatho
  arasanillamal jaanagal aaLum kaalamum vaarathoo
  
  paditha maanthar niraintha naatil paarkum yaavum pothu udamai
  -------------
  mathurai veeiran :
  
  Essi pizikkum thozilee sarithaana
  eNNi paarukunga nalla enni paarunga
  
  Full lyrics please.........
  ----------
  mahadevi :
  
  kuruku vaziyil vaazvu theedidum
  kuruttu ulagamada
  koLLai adippathil vallamai
  kaattum thiruttu ulagamada thambi
  therinthu nadathu kollada
  
  From: arvind (@ nhv-ct4-18.ix.netcom.com) on: Sun Apr 19 22:48:35 EDT 1998
  
  
  Song: Manidhaa Manidhaa; Film: kan sivandhAl man sivakkum....
  manidhA manidhA ini un vizhigaL
  sivandhAl ulagam vidiyum
  vizhiyil vadiyum udhiram muzhudhum
  ini un saridham yezhudhum
  asaiyum kodigaL uyarum uyarum
  nilavin mudhugai urasum (manidhA.....)
  
  pala AarugaL OdudhadA
  varalArugaL maaruthada
  pasiyAl pala yEzhaigaL
  sAvadhu yenbadhu
  dhEsiyamAnadhadA
  ini pAl varum yenbadhum
  thEn varum yenbadhum
  jOsiyam Aanadhada
  ada sAttaigaLE
  ini theervugal yEnbadhu
  soosagamAnadhadA (manidhA)
  
  oLiveesuga sooriyanE
  yugamARudhu vAlibanE
  pala tholviyinaal pudhu vELviyiNAl
  ini sothanai theernthuvidum
  pala Aayiram Aayiram
  sooriya dhEbangaL boomiyil thOndrivudum
  ada saamaram veesiya paamara jaadhigal
  saadhanai kandu vidum (manidhA)
  
  From: NOV (@ 202.184.134.10) on: Tue Apr 21 00:18:19 EDT 1998
  
  . . .While the music and lyrics have
  tried to be faithful of the bygone era, the songs have certainly a contemporary feel.
  Both Kannaik katti kollaathei kandathaiyellaam nambaatehi and Aayiraththil naan oruvan, neengal
  aanaiyittaal padai thalaivan are songs with strong political messages. But beneath that obvious exterior,
  there are some wonderful social messages, which should motivate one to rise above the current situations.
  Here are some samplings:
  
  Political Awakenings
  
  Velli mazhai sindhum mazhai maegam vilambaram koduththaal pozhiyaadhu
  Makkal sakthi kaasukku valaiyaadhu ada paniyaadhu
  Vidivellithaan mulaikkumvarai irul mattum aatchiyil irukkumada
  Kizhakku mugam veluththuvittaal irulukku mudivundu engalukku vidivundu
  ***************
  Ovvoru veettukkullum ovvoru sooriyan sonthaththil jolikkattumei
  Vaazhkkai vidiyattumei varumai ozhiyattumei
  Uzhaikkum makkalukku ulagangal sontham unmaigal theliyattumei
  Ini ezhunjaayiru ezhuga intha irul koottangal ozhiga
  Pazhaiya pagai padaiyeduththaal kaththi puththi rendum kondu venruviduga
  
  
  From: NOV (@ 202.184.134.10) on: Tue Apr 21 00:35:42 EDT 1998
  The present day MGR is, without any doubt, MGR. :-))
  Let's see how he is trying to shape society in his songs.
  
  Anti-Violence
  
  Oruvan oruvan muthalaali ulagil matravan thozhilaali
  Vidhiyai ninaippavan yeimaali athai vendru mudippavan arivaali
  Boomiyai vella aayutham etharku poopparikka koadari etharkku
  Ponnoa poruloa poarkkalam etharkku aasai thurandhaal agilam unakku
  
  Mannin meedhu manithanukkaasai manidhan meedhu mannukkaasai
  Mannthaan kadaisiyil jeyikkiradhu idhai manamthaan unara marukkiradhu
  
  Vaanam unakku boomiyum unakku varappugaloadu sandaigal etharku
  Vaazha cholludhu iyarkaiyada vaazhvil thunbam seyarkaiyada
  
  K. Balachander is IMO a director who has always addressed social problems in his movie. Alcoholism and its effects has been addressed umpteen times on the sceen. But, in his little way, KB (VM) has shown how a normal guy is driven to the bottle and his eventual miseries:
  
  Ills of Alcoholism
  
  Kaiyil kinnam pidiththu vittaan
  Inikkindra vishaththukkul irangivittaan
  Raagam thaalam maranthuvittaan
  Rasiganin kadithaththai kizhiththuvittaan
  Isaikkoru kuyilendru peireduththaan
  Irumalaiththaanindru surampidiththaan
  Manithargal iruppathai marandhuvittaan
  Maanaththin maanaththai vaangivittaan
  Boadhaiyin paathaiyil poagindraan
  Thanmughamei thaan maranthaan
  
  
  From: Sathiya Keerthi (@ panorama.nus.edu.sg) on: Tue Apr 21 02:17:50 EDT 1998
  IdhO sila vaira samooga seerthiruththa varigaL from VM:
  
  Ezhai varggam vErvaikkuLLE muththuk kuLikkum
  pinbu seththup pizhaikkum
  Ezhai veettu thEnum kooda uppuk karikkum
  idhil kaNNeer midhakkum
  Padam: Sigappu Manidhan
  
  aduppum viLakkum thavira ingE
  ellaam eriyudhu thambi
  Padam: Idhu Enga Naadu
  
  Odugindra vErvai engaL aadaiyaaga aanadhE
  kaaychchup pOna engaL kaiyil aayuL rEgai illaiyE
  Padam: Thanneer Thanneer
  
  kunindhu kunindhu nadandheergaL koon vizhundhaachchu
  nesavu seydhu koduththeergaL adaimaigaL pOlE
  uduththik koLLa aadaiyilla iduppukku mElE
  aduppu uNdu poonaikku, adhuvumilla Ezhaikku
  Padam: Maaveeran
  
  maadiveettu jannal kooda sattai pOttirukku
  ada, sErikkuLLa chinnappuLLa ammaNamaayirukku
  Padam: Paadum Vaanampaadi
  
  aayiramaayiram aaNdugaLaay idhu aaNgaLin raajiyam
  kaNgaLil neerkkudam Endhiya mangai kaNdadhu poojjiyamO
  Padam: Kalyana Agadhigal
  
  peNgal azhugindra avathaaramaa
  Padam: Kalyana Kaalam
  
  pombaLai sollu innum ambalam ERalE vaLLiyammaa
  Padam: Adhu Andha Kaalam
  
  saalaiyil thanimaiyil azhagiya iLamayil
  nadakkavum mudiyavillai
  Padam: Naan Sigappu Manidhan
  
  dhEsam pOvadhu engE
  lanjam dhEsiyamaanadhu ingE
  Padam: Idhu Enga Naadu
  
  Ottu vaangap pOna aaLu
  veettukkuLLE thoongiyaachchu
  Padam: Thanneer Thanneer
  
  kOvaNam illaadha dhEsaththil indraikku
  iththanai katchchik kodi kaNNaip paRikkiRadhE
  Padam: Idhu Enga Naadu
  
  saathi madha bEdhamellaam munnavanga seydha mOsam
  Mudhal Mariyaadhai
  
  jaathiyin jaathakam yaar paarppadhu
  Aduththaaththu Albert
  
  
• From: Sundar (@ 200-61-65.ipt.aol.com) on: Wed Aug 12 20:04:56 EDT 1998
  
  Thozhilar puratchi: VM
  Erimalai eppadi Porukkum
  Nam neruppukku innumaa urakkam
  singa koottam nimirnthaal antha
  sirayin kathavu udayum
  Naam kanneer virkum jaathi
  ini azhuthaal varathu neethi
  
  
  
  

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