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Politeness and this forum

Topic started by Ramki (@ cs101.cs.wmich.edu) on Fri Oct 30 21:41:00 EST 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

They look like antonyms to me.THe forum,which had once been a playground of fun filled people,happniess,joy is now reduced to hatred,personal and verbal attacks.The attitude of certain people has literally driven some of our regulars here.Where are we heading to?If this trend continues i dont think this forum will be ever used for the main purpose it was created. We are here to talk about music,varieties of music,its creators,irrespective of who it is ,listeners.This forum is accessed and read throughout the world. SHouldnt we,people who come from prestigious universities,who are woring in respectable positions,show minimal politeness in
what we speak and what we write.But whats happening here is worse than 'kuzhaiyadi sandai'.I really feel ashamed and hurt to see this. SOme of us are really brutal.I dont want to cite examples,wait what the heck,once a srikanth had posted that he wanted to cut the throat of SUresh peters.I was shocked and was very sad to read that.You need not have to give respect for his talent but atleast he deserves some respect as a human being.WHat if suresh peter also reads the forum??Wouldnt he be hurt?If you dont like
an artist,keep it to yourself or say it diplomatically. We are not barbarians,we are all educated,talented human beings.Let us not slay each other with words.
Stop comparing people.Stop comapiring their works.
If you cant ,sorry to say,but stop coming here.

Ravi sorry for creating a melodramatic thread,but by the look of things here i guess you might even consider putting this thread in permanent section:)

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Murali Sankar (@ 129.252.23.230) on: Sun Nov 1 16:51:26 EST 1998
  
  Dear Ramki,
  
  I think we both are getting tired of the bellicose dispositions. Let the DF be as it was. Let us continue the way we had been in the past as some people are not in a mood to pay a hood to what we are trying to say. Hence it is better for us to refrain from them and be on our way in order to prevent strained relations over the net. By our approach we had not evoked any sharp response till now and I think we should be comfortable with a similar style in the future too. The birth of this thread from you has finally declared that the situation can improve no further.
  
  Regards
  
  Murali Sankar
  
  
  
  
• From: Murali Sankar (@ 129.252.23.230) on: Sun Nov 1 16:52:26 EST 1998
  
  typo:read hood heed
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.27.22) on: Sun Nov 1 17:32:23 EST 1998
  
  srinath,
  i understand that u don't want anyone here to dictate how others should behave or anyone to lay rules. but there has to be atleast a broad set of guidelines in order to avoid impolite statements
  and 4 letter words.
  
  so let us leave it to rajaraaman and ravi to frame the set of guidelines. if words like crap and trash are not to be used then fine they would not be used. let them frame the guidelines and
  post in the TFM cover page, so that any newcomer to the forum does not miss those.
  
  internet sure is a place where there is complete freedom of expression, but, TFMDF is slightly different. this forum aims to provide a place where thoughts can be exchanged in a civilized way.
  
  that's why ravi and rajaraaman have incorporated the '4 letter obscene words detector' in this site!!! this TFMDF is different from other sites like newsgroups etc. the TFMDF should not end in a free-for-all.if we don't have these guidelines then iam afraid there would be even more stringent personal attacks. it would prompt some arbit characters and miscreants to just post some nonsense. we should also understand that there are members of the opposite sex too frequenting this forum.
  
  
• From: Kitcha (@ dhcp232-186.eel.ufl.edu) on: Sun Nov 1 20:50:37 EST 1998
  
  I could not go through all the responses, but the fact remains that the quality of the forum has gradually declined from what I used to see a year and a half ago !!
  and this is exactly why I have limited my forays in this forum....
  Sorry to say this , Ravi !!
  
  
• From: Nirupama (@ mut-53-0582.direct.ca) on: Sun Nov 1 22:46:55 EST 1998
  
  This is very disappointing! The atmosphere here is worse than an American talk show. Long before I ever started participating in this forum, I used to visit this site just to read and enjoy the interaction between some mature TFM listeners. I particularly liked the way everybody addressed each other, in a very informal manner yet also giving enough respect for opposing views. Unfortunately, that spirit is missing in this DF lately, and everything that is said here is taken toooo seriously (and, personally, I must add!).
  
  Being polite, or not being quite impulsive, is just an effective form of expression. If you don't care about others' feelings/opinions, but you still want others to take you seriously, please try using a milder tone of speech (it's only ethical to do so!!). I myself will ONLY listen to anybody who chooses to use some decent language in their conversation. You do not have to change your stance/belief in any way, rather you might actually end up convincing somebody to your own line of thought by using milder language. It only shows that you're also respecting their views, but at the same time you choose to differ for some other reason. No matter what the topic is about, it is still very important to maintain some decency in our responses.
  
  After all, people here are also important to us just like our TFM personalities. Speaking about them, I dearly wish that the DF participants would not probe into their(TFM icons') personal lives/character traits too much. It not only creates bad speculations, but might actually hurt their reputations. Unless we've been affected by them personally, I see no reason for us to examine/evaluate their behaviour. It's just a thought!! Everything I've said here is entirely my opinion only and it is not aimed at anybody in particular. If you feel that it offends you in any way, I sincerely apologize for that!!
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ spider-wc081.proxy.aol.com) on: Sun Nov 1 23:51:19 EST 1998
  
  Murali Sankar and Ramki:
  By my 'bellicose dispositions' (as MS so aptly put it) I was only trying to communicate in a manner most natural to me. Let's get serious guys - I don't hate you ! I wanted to put across the point that I do not become a lesser human being or that the DF becomes a rat-hole because of an impassioned argument from me (or anyone else for that matter). My basic stance remains - this time in a form that will not hurt your sentiments, or so I hope.
  
  If the DF were a closed community and if, for the DF itself to exist, a set of rules and regulations were needed, then your apprehensions would be justified. If the DF itself were defined by parameters that constitute a participant's nature, yes, all statements would need to be made in a manner that maintains the integrity of those parameters. To put it in simpler words, if only a person of nature A or B or C were allowed to participate in the DF, then we would be justified in filtering out anyone who did not adhere to it. But I feel we should continue to accept variables in the forum.
  
  I still treat this thread only as one among others and I hope I made that clear by asking Ramki to come up with a summary. Even from a person like me, who apparently does not stick to the norm of the DF, you can see politeness and decorum. But I want that to be my choice. I want to be honest here. This thread is a concentration of all the ire that you see in the other discussions. But even here, we can come to a consensus. IMO, if I can still be objective about this, I can be objective about any discussion going on now. And that, I believe, is the case with almost every DFer.
  
  Nirupama:
  Your apology is precisely what I feel is not needed in the DF. Every day in our lives, we'll hurt someone or the other. Invariably we'll step on some toes. We can't spend our lives apologising. We won't be our true selves that way. Even taking Srikanth as an example, his comments about Suresh Peters should have been taken with a pinch of salt. Otherwise, every posting will have to come with a disclaimer !
  
  I know some of you guys are not going to agree. But here is my own disclaimer for those who feel it is necessary (Nirupama, I can afford to do it because I've had more than my fair share of words here :)) - "My take on what constitutes politeness and decorum in the DF might be different from yours. I request you to kindly consider it, irrespective of whether you agree or not"
  
  
• From: Murali Sankar (@ 129.252.26.207) on: Mon Nov 2 00:35:48 EST 1998
  
  That was definitely in an appreciatively friendly intonation, Srinath.
  
  
  
  
• From: Viswa (@ webgate0.mot.com) on: Mon Nov 2 01:49:53 EST 1998
  
  It is amusing to see that everyone has started to get defensive all of a sudden in their postings ! The anxiety to avoid getting into any arguments or controversies is evident among the posters in this thread...
  
  I'd say that in a forum such as this where discussions are free and often passionate, heated arguments and discussions are bound to be there - only that we must be able to realize what the limits of decorum are, and must be able to draw a line there.
  
  There is one aspect many of us seem to be overlooking while putting forth arguments. Many of us seem to have the feeling that using bold/capital letters, strong words, etc. are the best ways to express your passion for a particular subject, and any opinion that is counter-intuitive to ours must be met with such postings in order to make an impact ! This is what results in provocative, offensive postings in the threads...
  One can be aggressive in his arguments, but not offensive (I hope the distinction is clear !). As Nirupama has pointed out, the best way to make a point across is to be polite but firm. In fact, there are quite a few posters here who have actually proven that it is the case (Eg. Udhaya, balaji, SRKaushik, etc.)
  
  The aim of the dlhkhfklj thread started by Bones was to point out (in a humorous way) as to how we're making a fool of ourselves by getting into such fisticuffs even in unrelated threads ! But somehow even this seems to have failed in its attempt to make the DFers realize this fact !
  
  Finally, I wish to say that the DF featured in an article in Ananda Vikatan a few weeks ago, and I was shocked to find that the fights that take place here seems to have found a prominent mention in the article ! This, I'm sorry to say does not reflect on the state of affairs in very good light... We can ill-afford to have this kind of publicity !
  
  
• From: Nirupama (@ mut-53-0447.direct.ca) on: Mon Nov 2 01:58:57 EST 1998
  
  Hi Srinath:
  I understand what you mean by these disclaimers (it certainly robs the fun out of criticisms), but I don't think there is any other alternative for it right now. It's just that there is too much tension in the air lately, and you'll never know if you're hurting anybody even unconsciously. Till everybody here understands that criticisms are not personal attacks and it's only a difference of opinion, these disclaimers are not a bad idea!
  
  
• From: balaji (@ schubert.crhc.uiuc.edu) on: Mon Nov 2 02:45:26 EST 1998
  
  nirupama, you have hit the nail on the head.
  "Till everybody here understands that criticisms are not personal attacks and it's only a difference of opinion" ... i wonder when this will be.
  we seem to be arriving on a consensus here. most opine that people should be entitled to voice their opinions. i fully support this. opinion differences are bound to occur and the attitude should be "let us agree to disagree". regarding the way of expressing things, IMHO,it is best to lay a minimal guideline(rather a set of suggestions) and leave the rest to the discretion of the DFer. this will accomodate people like srinath who passionately feel that they should post in the way they like and should not be forced. the working of such a scheme depends a lot on awareness(of possible consequences), retrospection(whether this is the right way of putting things across) and self-discipline. i don't think this is too much to expect from our DFers. they are learned and capable of evaluating their postings themselves. if things go out of control, then the arbiters can get in and take action(like deleting stuff).
  a working way to express opinions without hurting anyone can be to be polite but firm.also one can be sportive when attacked(like S P mahendran, he didn't join the fight) or give a rebuttal in the above said manner.such suggestions can form a guideline, which are just suggestions.the final say should be solely left to the discretion of the DFer.
  
  

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