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Politeness and this forum

Topic started by Ramki (@ cs101.cs.wmich.edu) on Fri Oct 30 21:41:00 EST 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

They look like antonyms to me.THe forum,which had once been a playground of fun filled people,happniess,joy is now reduced to hatred,personal and verbal attacks.The attitude of certain people has literally driven some of our regulars here.Where are we heading to?If this trend continues i dont think this forum will be ever used for the main purpose it was created. We are here to talk about music,varieties of music,its creators,irrespective of who it is ,listeners.This forum is accessed and read throughout the world. SHouldnt we,people who come from prestigious universities,who are woring in respectable positions,show minimal politeness in
what we speak and what we write.But whats happening here is worse than 'kuzhaiyadi sandai'.I really feel ashamed and hurt to see this. SOme of us are really brutal.I dont want to cite examples,wait what the heck,once a srikanth had posted that he wanted to cut the throat of SUresh peters.I was shocked and was very sad to read that.You need not have to give respect for his talent but atleast he deserves some respect as a human being.WHat if suresh peter also reads the forum??Wouldnt he be hurt?If you dont like
an artist,keep it to yourself or say it diplomatically. We are not barbarians,we are all educated,talented human beings.Let us not slay each other with words.
Stop comparing people.Stop comapiring their works.
If you cant ,sorry to say,but stop coming here.

Ravi sorry for creating a melodramatic thread,but by the look of things here i guess you might even consider putting this thread in permanent section:)

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: cram (@ 206.103.12.102) on: Sun Nov 1 06:24:02 EST 1998
  
  
  YO MAAN, srinath, i am in full agreement with u.
  internet is the only forum where one can freely air one's views without fear of fatwas. and it is truly reprehensible that someone should try and gag another's opinion. the golden rule of the Net is that there are no written rules. nothing will stop us from using four-letter words, but we don't do it (except the likes of annapurna, andrew), as it is an unwritten rule. people
  don't use all-caps as it is equivalent to shouting, clearly not a sign of cultured behaviour. IMO, newtfmpage is perfect the way it
  is. and i for one am not going to silently watch someone trying to tamper with it.
  ramki, u have raised a point about politeness, but in a debate on something like TFM, which we all feel so strongly about and have very clearly defined likes and dislikes, politeness is often a casulty. as regards hatred, i think most DFers who spew venom on their pet peeves don't really hate the persons they are targeting. it is more a case of righteous indignation at the horrors inflicted on a public that knows better.
  TFM is my passion in life, and anyone who is
  besmirching its fair name can't hope to get away with it (eg: suresh peters, deva). suresh peters may be my good friend, but that's not going to stop me from saying that his voice is a hellish experience. there's nothing personal about it. by venting spleen, we are only reiterating our still-alive ability to feel outraged at insults to music.
  again this is IMHO. but humility cannot be equated with mute acceptance of what we feel is trash. of course, if someone begs to differ, be my guest. but don't ever tell me to stop discussing, or, heaven forbid, don't ever ignore me.
  we belong to a great tradition of protest. did nakkeeran say that a flawed poem was good, just because GOD Himself had written? never!! netrikkann thirappinum kutram kutrame enru
  solli, free speech-kku puthu paathai vaguththavar. this was 2000 years back. neenga ennaadaanna, in this age of the Net, talking
  of policing and all that. civility is fine, but censoriousness is not.
  kavalai padaathae srinath sagothara, we shall party no matter what. after all, too much agreement kills a chat, and
  that's what we are basically doing here.
  
  
• From: Geetha Sampath (@ 202.54.80.213) on: Sun Nov 1 09:34:47 EST 1998
  
  Dear Guys,
  
  I am amused at the goings on the Politenss DF. I think forums and a DF like TFM should be a repository of well meaning critics and not some cesspool where you see hatred than constructive criticism. If someone thinks Net is free, please feel free to start another forum and air what you would like others to hear. I think it is time to revisit and understand DFs and etiquettes.
  
  My suggestion , stop this thread first and then when a dirty remark ( a la Suresh Peters..) arrives. please ignore the comment and read on.
  
  This way Politeness would gain and meanigless discussion would stop.
  
  I hope TFM would not need monitoring for every DG ( discn group) and when that happens, I would stop coming here..
  
  
  
• From: cram (@ 206.103.12.102) on: Sun Nov 1 10:54:57 EST 1998
  
  geetha avargale,
  thanx a lot for that patronising posting. dhanyanaanom. why are u joining the band of sulkers who threaten to to stop coming to this forum? if u don't want to, just do it. why tom-tom it sounding aggrieved? life will go on, no matter what.
  and how can we stop this thread right now? we haven't heard the worst yet. i am sure we ain't seen nothin' yet. so hold ur horses, and let the party continue.
  
  
• From: Ramki (@ cs101.cs.wmich.edu) on: Sun Nov 1 10:59:40 EST 1998
  
  Great!If this is how people view their freedom of speech,no one can stop them. Maybe i am too polite(whats that word-priest:))for this forum.
  What i wanted is a peaceful platform for discussions but if you people like to live in kurukshetram,good luck. If this forum is going to be used to vent out your anger and hatred, i dont think i can ever see decent discussions anymore.
  Raja you had a good point in saying that we need good topics to discuss,but as u know that almost every single topic has been reduced to warfield here. This reason drove many of our forumers
  and it will do in future who come here for discussing music but not for virtual killing of each other.
  As a part of TFM team i wanted this forum to have a friendly atmosphere,where people can express their views freely without the fear of being called names by others,but i guess im asking for too much. "nalladhor veenai seidhom adhai nalangeda puzhudhiyil erivadhundo"-i dont want this to happen.
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ spider-tq044.proxy.aol.com) on: Sun Nov 1 12:59:11 EST 1998
  
  Ramki:
  Mankind, IMHO, goes beyond love and understanding. Just because my opinions differ from yours, it does not mean that I hate you or that I want to destroy you. All I am asking for is the presence of variety. I can understand if you want to curtail the use of foul language. I can understand if you want people to stop calling others names. But you seem to want the DF itself to exist in a form that you find comfort and security in. I really cannot understand how or why you want predictability and uniformness. You want only people of your own tastes (perhaps not the same musical taste, but certainly similar personal preferences) to participate in the DF. How is that justifiable ? Why can't a reckless genius paticipate in this forum ? Why can't somebody like Srikanth, who is so knowledgeable, be himself in this forum ? Like he pointed out, you have projected one negative statement that he made, while ignoring the positive contributions from him. What will people reading this thread think of him ? You are so worried about hurting Suresh Peter's feelings that you don't mind hurting a fellow DFer's feelings ! Is the DF richer by Srikanth's presence inspite of his harsh comments ? Undoubtedly ! What's more is that the DF is richer in content actually because of Srikanth's spontaeniety. Don't kill inspiration, man. Let the forumers be themselves. Why are you are so possesive about the forum ? Why do you feel that the spirit of the forum should be only the way you concieve it ? Don't stifle originality.
  
  The pity is, not so long ago, Srikanth was considered one of the more fair-minded participants in the forum. Ramki, there's enough place for you and me and Srikanth and everyone else in this forum. I have deliberately been sharp with my postings in this thread because I want to emphasize that every posting must be filled with utmost sincerity, truth and involvement. That, IMO, is far more important than superficial courtesies.
  
  
• From: Murali Sankar (@ 129.252.26.37) on: Sun Nov 1 13:59:52 EST 1998
  
  Dear Mr. Srinath,
  
  I am surprised to see such a violent reaction from you for my opinion that everybody be polite. If you think that I have tried to "frame some rules" for the DF with which I am comfortable,I am sorry, you have thoroughly misunderstood me. I never asked Srikanth to be the way everybody wants him to be. But, if you have read carefully, you must have understood that it is the expression of thoughts that I said must be polite when the thoughts themselves can be original. I do not compel anybody to be an IR fan or ARR fan, but strongly resist the fact IR or ARR be bashed verbally as it does harm not to them, but their admirers. If you are trying to say that you shall talk what you think, I say I welcome it, because by welcoming the originality of others I widen the horizons of my knowledge. But if you say that you shall speak the way you wanted, I am sorry and find that it is indecent when you are among the crowd. It is mandatory that we possess some good manners in expressing ourselves. I request that you cease to express so harshly and understand first what others have tried to say before you (Please note that I am not harsh in this statement). In my posting I have requested Srikanth to continue postings. Another point I would like to emphasize is that you better be more polite in your expression as you are not talking to a close frind of yours but to general public.
  
  I wish you do not reply to this posting as I would like to stop this discussion here and look forward to get into other DF topics, since whatever be the quanta of discusion, the end result shall be worthless, if some fail to listen to what others are tring to convey.Note - I am not raising my forefinger against anybody when I make the last statement
  
  Regards
  
  Murali Sankar
  
  
• From: SR Kaushik (@ elroy.cs.wisc.edu) on: Sun Nov 1 14:12:11 EST 1998
  
  First of all, since there is no way to decide where to draw the line between courtesy and spontaneity, I think the decision should rest with Ravi and Rajaraman.
  
  However, my opinion is this:
  Impact of complete freedom to say whatever one wants is that, since any bitterness shown against any MD or singer or lyricist is bound to breed only more bitterness, the fans of the victim are definitely going to be less motivated in revisiting this thread, esp if the bitterness is widespread (Eg Deva). That's why, IMO, as long as any bitterness persists, some one or the other is being discouraged from coming here.
  
  On the other hand, extreme courtesy will definitely make DF highly boring.
  
  My suggestion is this:
  1. One must see to it that there are certain threads like the song stats, New albums, etc are kept free of attacks of any kind.
  
  2. Threads which are obviously meant to be highly argumentative be used to vent one's ire PROVIDED the one who started the thread does not explicitly ask everyone to refrain from doing so. This way, one who is courtesy-conscious may visit only certain threads. Of course I can realise that there is a slight hitch in this which I myself have experienced: If the "intro" part to a thread appeals to you to be demeaning your idol and yet there is the request to avoid mud slinging, its difficult to know what to do.
  
  3. Another thing I must add is that those DFers who are at the receiving end of any criticism are guilty(??) of some bitterness on their part, and so they must expect strong reactions and learn to live with that. Leaving DF is not at all sportive, IMHO.
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ spider-tq022.proxy.aol.com) on: Sun Nov 1 15:11:42 EST 1998
  
  Murali Sankar:
  I find your tone as offensive as you found mine. So, who's right ? Neither one of us. Similarly, neither one of us is wrong ! I find it amusing that you are offended by my tone rather than the content of my posting. I could have put things as politely as you have requested. But should I do it because I feel that way or should I do it because you like it that way ? Don't be intimidated by my belligerence - that's the way I am. But don't ask me to behave in a manner that keeps you happy or that *you* think is right. I don't advocate violence - either verbal or physical. Point is, I don't advocate at all. I can't ask you to stop posting the way you are doing now and I only ask you to reciprocate.
  
  To everybody else in general:
  Why is this fear of losing control so prevelant here ? Why are you afraid that you will cross the limits (or that you have already crossed the limits). DF is still a fun place to be in. Everybody in here is mature enough to understand how far they can let things go before pulling in the reins. Then, why this doomsday prediction ? DF is still the friendliest site on the Internet for TFM lovers and it will stay that way because all of us love being here more than anything else.
  
  Ramki:
  At some point most of the threads are summarized. Usually the person who starts the topic comes up with an impartial observation of what has been discussed. This, I feel, also helps late-entrants into the thread to understand what has been said so far. Perhaps you might consider doing the honors - and bring a desperately needed objectivity to the atmosphere in here.
  
  

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