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Mumbai Moham - What do Tamils put up with the bad and mediocre singing of Mumbai artistes?

Topic started by Indhu (@ 24.76.127.63) on Sat Dec 1 22:44:28 EST 2001.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

This is my question....Udit Narayan, Hariharan, Sadhana Sargam, Kavitha Krishnamurti,Sonu Nigam - All sing in Tamil. But their Tamil is really very bad. Are Tamils deaf, tolerant, or have no PERUMAI in their own language? Is there really a shortage of good, tamil-speaking singers? Or is this really Tamil Inferiority Complex?

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Bharath (@ 66.137.226.222) on: Wed Dec 12 22:35:31 EST 2001
  
  hmm...
  
  so u have two "what people want"
  
  1) the want that is allegedly "forced" on them by the likes of ARR..lets say sort of introduced
  
  2) the want thats allegedly "natural"! which the people in tfm profess as the thing they want.
  
  lets say because of divisions of reigon, language and the quest for perfect tamil pronounciation in the name fake patriotism in the form of tamil singers has "forced" the people to want singers born and brought up in tamil nadu...
  
  and people who were used to non-tamil singers like spb et all being indifferent to udit & co as being a "natural" want.
  
  My dear! who are you to define what was forced and what was natural! here am I turning the tables upside down and claim the opposite...
  
  what are you gooing to do about it!
  
  ARR has already done it and he has been proved correct because a lot of people seem to agree with him. what did u do about it?
  
  
• From: WhyNot (@ 203.24.100.137) on: Wed Dec 12 22:55:31 EST 2001
  
  :-) Just amused....this is the umpteenth time Indhu threathened to walk out of the thread, but failed once again. Maybe it's a signal u should come up with an action plan and put it in black and white so we can move on to the next stage.
  
  
• From: WhyNot (@ 203.24.100.132) on: Wed Dec 12 23:03:12 EST 2001
  
  Digression:
  btw, i really dont see what's the big deal abt having housemates of different genders and ethnicities. When i have to share a house, i try my best to avoid Indians (except family members :)), esp. other Indian gals, tho i'm one myself.
  Digression ends here.
  
  
• From: Indhu (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Wed Dec 12 23:11:19 EST 2001
  
  But I did, WhyNot!! And I also asked other people here is they thought any of the ideas/concepts I put forward were worthy/interesting/potentially effective...and then we all broke of into a jokefest and general chitchat. I have not walked out of this (yet) as I believe that there is something that can be done. Your advice to me was to be patient, and I am giving that a shot. I am not a quitter, but patience is always a task for me :-))
  
  
• From: Indhu (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Wed Dec 12 23:14:55 EST 2001
  
  Your logic is only clear to you, Bharath. I thought the ARR interview really clarified what this thread was all about. You might think that you have turned the tables upside down - now, tell us what it feels like to be under those tables...as you have a ringside view, and I am not really sure what you are getting at? :-))
  
  
• From: Indhu (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Wed Dec 12 23:25:15 EST 2001
  
  According so to some participants here, not everyone agreed with what ARR had done/is doing. I was informed that there were critics of this "Udit is Happpiness " trend. What have I done about it? I have not decided what was forced and what was natural - I don't delude myself to have such powers. There is a feeling that not everybody approves of the current "mispronounce please, yen rasathi!" trend. There have been many voices of dissent here. As I said earlier: If a people in their own land let their language slip and slide, then the loss is theirs, and I am happy with my Pazhum Pazhamum recordings. Celebrate Apathy if you want, it's always been your choice.
  
  
• From: Indhu (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Wed Dec 12 23:27:06 EST 2001
  
  Oops..., Palum Pazhamum. No, I was not being cutesy a la you know who. :-)
  
  
• From: Indhu (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Wed Dec 12 23:33:09 EST 2001
  
  And another thing (following your tableturning metaphor): How in god's name do you know that my patriotism is "fake", Bharath. I think the question is important, as your name/moniker here is loaded with irony!
  
  
• From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.230) on: Thu Dec 13 00:03:33 EST 2001
  
  Bharath,
  
  Digression:
  
  People are trying to do attitudinal-intepretation of my postings.So,if I say something and if that becomes related to the topic then there may be waste of psychological energy.
  But , I think I got your point(if not entirely).:)
  Enough of digressive exchanges.
  
  
  
  
• From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.230) on: Thu Dec 13 00:05:17 EST 2001
  
  "kashta pattu "parattai" oru posting pannen! atha pathi onnume sollaliye :-) ungalukavathu purinju bathil solluveengannu nenaichen! ( laddu koduthu la.... )"
  
  BTW my last posting had everything to do with the above statement and nothing more.
  
  
• From: suresh (@ 202.88.155.34) on: Thu Dec 13 01:40:10 EST 2001
  
  Mass media has an all-pervading influence in every society that it has had unhindered access to. If it were intrinsic value that people seek in the commodities/services they seek, never would a Colgate be a bigger name than Vicco, nor a Pepsi flood away almost all the native soft drink brands. Nor a "Male Male Maruthamale" become a bigger hit than "Nirpadhuve" or "Nee thaan en thesiya geetham"!
  
  In any commodity, physical or virtual, consumers are influenced by a set of subliminal factors that most have no control of. I'm sure many have read Chomsky's "Manufacturing Consent" here, this is quite a case in point.
  
  I'm not surprised though of ARRs reaction to this, coming as he did through the advertising jingle factory that perpetuates the use of subliminal cues to influence recall (at the risk of repetition - notice how most of ARR's early chartoppers had repeated words at the start of the song? - rukkumani rukkumani, chinna chinna, mustafa mustafa...)
  
  The point will again me made that the buyers exercised their rational choice in making all these Udit and Sadhana songs the success they were, but would anybody really know how they would've fared if a SPB or Chitra had rendered it? Just as in the case of many of IR's early albums that had an IR repeat of an SPB song, which led to listeners awe of SPB's singing prowess getting more pronounced:)
  
  I think this is a good argument; we must not lose sight of the fact that even if the "mumbai moham" is politically uncorrect, it raises a lot of valid issues. Just as one bemoans the lack of good, native thamizh cinema (again subjective), one must also spare a thought to the mindless subjugation of good pronounciation that goes around in the shroud of 'market demand'.
  
  If we can all argue about the mind-numbing number of "amman" and "naattamai" films being churned out, even though they remain favourites of the distributors, can't we also record a collective voice (however insignificant) against this affront?
  
  I'm of the firm belief that only a person of ARR's stature can reverse this trend, i.e. if he still actively considers TFM his mainstay....
  
  
• From: Indhu (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Thu Dec 13 02:22:14 EST 2001
  
  Manufacturing Consent or Amusing Ourselves to Death my be considered esoteric is not outright "elitist" in such fora, Suresh...just a friendly warning to you.
  
  All along, thru this multi-faceted discussion, I am still trying to figure out one central conundrum: What is at the root of this defensive posturing? I am not the only one (I hope) who can hear the difference between a Kaatrae En Vaasal and a Kaatrinile Varum Geetham - there must be others? And once again, I wonder what is wrong with "subjective" as long as that "subjectivity" is contextual and in keeping with the argument presented? If "subjectivity" is rotten in every sense, everytime, then how does one even try to separate the wheat from the chaff (and the follow-on accusation that one is "privileging" the wheat??). Discernment is indeed subjective. And it ought to be. Why be apologists?
  
  
  
  
• From: Indhu (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Thu Dec 13 02:23:13 EST 2001
  
  correction: may be considered esoteric if not....
  It's that time of day. Time for bed.
  
  
• From: eden (@ 210.214.4.217) on: Thu Dec 13 04:24:45 EST 2001
  
  alaipAyudhe'il oru singer `indhiranAr bandhadikka' endRu pAdukiRALE, adhu yAr? when did `ball' become `close' (muzhu adaippu:-))?
  
  
• From: you know who I am - so I need not mention my name again (@ 143.127.3.10) on: Thu Dec 13 06:56:55 EST 2001
  
  indhu:
  
  Both u and Naaz (if thats not the same person as you) have one thing in common. Utter disregard,contempt for anyone who shows the slightest difference with your high-and-mighty,pompous,bombastic ,boring verbiage. Both of u rattle of long lists (full of mostly unsubstantiated or else exaggerated claims) and both of you have the uncanny knack of constantly contradicting your previous posts (naaz beats u in the last one, or atleast whenever u post on the VJ thread u do it more than u do it here.) Both of you also never answer any questions that may seem uncomfortable to you.
  
  
• From: you know who I am (@ 143.127.3.10) on: Thu Dec 13 07:08:18 EST 2001
  
  Indhu:
  
  And one more point in common to u and Naaz. Both of u think that apart from the saintly,intelligent,blessed,gifted,drops-from-heaven that you claim to be, everyone else here is an illiterate,an ignoramus. You are the only two "scholars" here.
  
  
• From: i don't care who u r (@ 203.197.138.163) on: Thu Dec 13 08:41:45 EST 2001
  
  why all of you make this topic too personal?
  
  indhu seems to be an emotional type and others are having some psychology lessons from each other
  
  
• From: Vande mataram (@ 203.199.231.209) on: Thu Dec 13 09:18:40 EST 2001
  
  
  Who cares if the song is sumg by a tamil or a mumbaikar as long as he is Indian!!
  
  (Here's patriotism for ya.....)
  
  
• From: Naan Indian hoon (@ 203.199.231.209) on: Thu Dec 13 09:24:21 EST 2001
  
  let me make rephrase my opinion so that it is politically (including spelling)correct...
  Who cares if the Tamil song is sung by a Tamizhan or by a hindi karan/kari as long as it is being sung by an Indian.
  Vande mataram. Jai Hind.
  P.S: Ppl pleeeze dont melt because of the patriotic heat around ya..
  
  
• From: A repenting patriot (@ 203.199.231.209) on: Thu Dec 13 09:28:58 EST 2001
  
  and before ppl start directing those nasty glare at me let me make myself clear.....
  
  Of course i had posted that to hog the limelight for a while.
  
  pleeeze xcuse.
  
  
• From: WhyNot (@ 203.24.100.131) on: Thu Dec 13 09:36:30 EST 2001
  
  :-)) Patriot, be more sure of urself.
  Wat u say makes sense in a way.
  Reminds u of the story where the minority in India are indians.
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.149.4) on: Thu Dec 13 11:49:24 EST 2001
  
  Oh no..my Indian friend Phillip from Arunachal Pradesh is going to sing in tamil movies (FYI, Arunachal Pradhesh is almost china :))
  
  

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