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COPYING - IN TAMIL FILM HISTORY

Topic started by s.senthilkumar (@ 203.197.154.163) on Mon Jan 24 07:23:36 EST 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

i think "copying" is there for a long time in tamil film history.Here we discuss the tamil songs copied from others.

For a compilation of copied/inspired songs: http://copied.newtfmpage.com

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: O_IS_G (@ 217.17.235.2) on: Wed Jan 2 03:26:48 EST 2002
  
  Karthik
  
  I have heard the lift from "Ragu Vamsa " in a Chiranjeevi song.(He sings with a Guitar on the streets of Calcutta).Incidentally the MD is Mani sharma.Hope this Ex-AV Ramanan Group man replaces Deva in all aspects.
  
  How about IR's lift of "Mudatkaratha Modagam" in a Parthiban movie?(the song goes like 'Varamal Vantha Nayagan...).Poor Deva! When he lifts Sashti Kavasam entire Bhakthi world is up in arms.But IR got away with this one!
  
  Your site was good.Are U in India?
  
  OISG
  
  
• From: Karthik S (@ 164.164.82.29) on: Wed Jan 2 06:55:07 EST 2002
  
  O is G, I'm in India!
  
  Also, I'm looking for the original of the song from Ullathai Alli tha - 'I love you sonnale'. This is the only song for which the original has not yet been traced!
  
  Could anybody help? A friend of mine told me that it is indeed from a middle eastern song! No other details known.
  
  
  
• From: yaaro (@ 195.93.32.154) on: Wed Jan 2 15:16:52 EST 2002
  
  O is G-
  have you seen the picturisation of the song?
  -The original tune was by IR
  -It was not a vulgar takeoff
  I remember ,IR was praised by vikatan for this song.
  
  
• From: O_IS_G (@ 217.17.235.2) on: Thu Jan 3 00:36:40 EST 2002
  
  When we are talking about copying there cannot be double standards.True, the picturisation of the Deva song was in true Pavithran style(Read Vulgar!Of course with Roja in the cast you cannot have anything better).But a decent picturisation of the Parthiban song does not absolve IR from the lift.
  
  Even in the copied songs page i see ARR's Arunagirinathar lift but not this one!
  
  Vikatan .. Kumudam..Kalki ...For them any news or review is a one week affair.Lets not take those comments seriously.Kadhai,Katturai yavum Karpanaye!
  
  Thanks Yaaro!The forum is now getting grown up participants.Two years back my comment would have met the fate of women and music under Taliban rule.
  
  
• From: Rashika (@ 172.189.188.101) on: Thu Jan 3 02:52:37 EST 2002
  
  Deva was heavily inspired by IR's Maasi Maasam - Tharmathurai in his song Kattipudi Kattipudi Da from Kushi.
  Roja Solladi from AA is heavily inspired by Manasukkul oru puyal in Star! (ARR inspiring himself!)
  Mudher Kanave by HJ is a blend of Leo coffee jingle by ARR and also Kannukkul Nooru nilavaa from Vedham Puthithu.
  
  
• From: MAN (@ 202.144.73.33) on: Thu Jan 3 03:27:30 EST 2002
  
  JUST SING MASI MASAM .AT A FASTER PACE....
  
  YOU GET tanha tanha RANGEELA ...........
  
  .TRUE COPY.....JUST THE PACE OF THS SONG IS DIFFERENT OTHERWISE A TRUE COPY.
  
  
• From: NagaS (@ 203.195.223.210) on: Thu Jan 3 06:56:00 EST 2002
  
  O IS G,
  
  Probably you didn't understand what Yaaro was trying to say,
  
  'Varaathu Vantha Naayakan' is IR's own tune only - He first tuned for the slogam and then in the same tune Vaalee Wrote this song
  
  Similar to KutRaalak kuRavanji's "INdhiraiyoo ivaL Sunthariyoo' and 'EnnavaLee, Adi EnnavaLee' in Movie Kadhalan - ARR tuned for both !
  
  NagaS
  
  
• From: O_IS_G (@ 217.17.235.2) on: Thu Jan 3 07:22:07 EST 2002
  
  I am sure Arunchala Kavirayar did not lend the tune for " Ennavale Adi Ennavale".But for "Mudathkaratha Modagam", IR certainly is not the composer. So what was IR's "Original" tune?
  
  
• From: cosmician (@ 194.170.1.66) on: Thu Jan 3 08:09:54 EST 2002
  
  Guys !
  
  Is ARR's chorus in "Allez Allez" from 12ka4 inspired from Modern Talking's "Brother Louie" ?
  
  
• From: Kupps (@ 156.153.255.134) on: Thu Jan 3 11:06:59 EST 2002
  
  aiyoo kadavuLae...
  O_IS_G
  
  What NagaS is saying is :
  
  There is a slokam (be it "Mudhakaraaththa Modhakam" or "Indhirayo ivaL sundhariyo"). MD tunes this slokam first then in the same tune the lyrics is (written and) tuned.
  
  This doesn't amount to copy.
  
  Mudhakaraatha modhakam, i think, is Vigneshwara bhujangam (or something). Bhujangam, in sanskrit is a kind of poetry structure like our ahaval in thamizh, i think. that basicially has a meter, not a tune, i guess. MD pick the slokam "tune" it in a raaga(let us assume) and then "tune" the lyrics in same tune.
  
  MDs usually do that, especially IR have done it.
  1) Mudhakaratha modakam...varadhu vandhanaayagan
  2) Sivashakya yuktho...Janani Janani(i guess so)
  3) Avigyanaam anthasthimira....Nadhiyil aadum(i guess so)
  4) Indhirayo ivaL sundhariyo...YennavaLae
  
  all fall in the same category.
  
  
  While talking about lifting tunes by IR. We have a similar structure in some of the tunes.
  
  In the film ellaam inba mayam Kamal would sing a song in madras paettai style. The song is maaman voodu machchi voodu. It is same tune of a famous carnatic krithi raara venu gopala. But in the song (both in cassette and cinema) the raara venu gopala will be sung before the maaman voodu machchi voodu.
  
  I am sure IR has done this in atleast couple of more occations. We cannot take such instances as blatant copy because it is "ACKNOWLEDGE BY MD HIMSELF". I'm not saying just because im a fan of IR. This can be acceptable for all MDs' creation. Whereas what Deva did is a un-acknowledged/semi-acknowledged copy of the tune of shashti kavacham. In the cassette there was not acknowledgement but in the film, i guess, it was acknowledged. Nevertheless the scene in movie is inconsistent with the logic. coz in the night(their first night) heroine will be listen to shashti kavacham in radio (shashti kavacham, in night?) then this song starts. So either this "18 vayadhu" song picturization is a hasty, immature cover-up of blatant copy or a "not well conceived idea" of tuning irrelevant song tune for a situation. Owing to the "reputation" of Deva that was considered as copying/heavy inspiration. Yes! at this juncture, one turns to be applying double standards but here it is not wrong (just like "mudhakaraththa modhakam" (or) "indhirayo") :-).
  
  
  
• From: yaaro (@ 195.93.32.167) on: Thu Jan 3 13:43:40 EST 2002
  
  OISG,
  parthiban will be praying in vinayagar temple when heroine comes and sings in the same tune-if you listen to the lines-it is about vinaayagar-listen to song, see the picturistion and then accuse me of bias ok?
  what was the original tune?please tellus-you were the one who put this bit of info here...
  
  
• From: yaaro (@ 195.93.32.181) on: Thu Jan 3 14:10:40 EST 2002
  
  and ,to be honest and fair to you, parhiban's name in the movie is vinayagam, I think.so it is a sort of dual purpose song , so to say..
  
  
• From: NagaS (@ 203.195.223.210) on: Thu Jan 3 23:56:28 EST 2002
  
  "ThendRalaik kaNdukoLLa maanee" (From Nilave Mugam Kaattu) is another example that can be added to Kupps' list - I think IR chants Kankadhara Sthosthram in the middle of the song and a female chorous sings the tamil version of each line that IR sings - wonderful idea and good translation by Vaasan too ...
  
  Thinking of Vaasan, Ippo avar uyirodu irunthirunthaa, I am sure he would have been a big name among tamil lyricsts ! :-(
  
  
• From: Karthik S (@ 164.164.82.29) on: Fri Jan 4 02:32:43 EST 2002
  
  Just added the telugu song 'theeyani...' from Ilayaraja's Nireekshana. Inspired by 'My favorite things' from The Sound of Music.
  
  Anybody knows if Balumahendra directed this movie? Is it a remake from a tamil movie or vice versa?
  
  http://www.iespana.es/i2fs/
  
  -- Karthik
  
  
• From: Guess Who (@ 192.11.189.114) on: Fri Jan 4 02:57:57 EST 2002
  
  Hey karthik,
  Just happened to see the trailer of a new Tamil film 'Murari'. Music by Mani Sharma. In of the songs he has blatantly lifted the latest marathi (or hindi) pop number which goes like 'gala ye papdi......thim thim gala...'( I dont know the exact wordings.. sorry). Mani goes to prove that he is a big-time copy cat.
  
  
• From: O_IS_G (@ 217.17.235.2) on: Fri Jan 4 04:29:04 EST 2002
  
  I made a mistake in my last posting.Kuttrala Kuravanji is by Thiri Kooda Rasppa Kavirayar.Sorry friends.
  
  Now coming to Mudathkaratha Modagam ,is a traditional sloka and it was chanted mostly in the same tune.You may have the MS version in temples,but at homes and in sloka classes in my younger days the tune was similar to Varathu vantha Nayagan.Hence i am questioning the originality in this case.
  
  In the same vein MSV-TKR never claimed the credit for Adithyahridayam's Tamil equivalent in Karnan,written by Kannadasan.
  
  BTW Saundarya Lahari slokas you are mentioning (1 and 3 i suppose) should not fall into this category.These have been just chanted as slokas and there aren't any songs/Tamil equivalants on the same lines.
  
  Dakshinamurthy did do the Bajagovindam Tamil version in Jagad guru Adi sankarar.But never claimed it as his original though he had used different ragas from the standard MS Subbalakshmi version.
  
  OISG
  
  
• From: O_IS_G (@ 217.17.235.2) on: Fri Jan 4 04:39:18 EST 2002
  
  G.Devarajan did the Harivarsanam in Swami Ayyappan.How you would wish to Categorise this?As GD's original?There was Orchestra and a distinct Madhyamavathi in the movie song which you may not listen to, during the actual recital at Sabari Malai.
  
  Charavarthy did Kotteswaran magal and the song Unai Naan Ariven is a lift from "Lalitha Sahasranam" (MS Version).
  
  
• From: NagaS (@ 203.195.223.210) on: Fri Jan 4 05:43:31 EST 2002
  
  O IS G, (BTW, What that means ? ;-)
  
  Even if we assume IR is not the 'real' owner of 'Varaadhu Vantha Nayakan' Tune, I suppose the 'inspiration' or 'copying' ends in the first line of the pallavi itself, Later its IR's own tune,
  
  Thats not the case with Deva's '18 Vayathu' (Remember our good old discussion ? ;-) The whole tune is based on KSKavasam !
  
  NagaS
  
  
• From: Karthik S (@ 164.164.82.29) on: Fri Jan 4 06:19:29 EST 2002
  
  NagaS,
  
  O IS G is possibly Old is Gold...i.e going by the amount of info O IS G comes up with when it comes to old and rare songs! Most of the times I've to ransack my brains to place a tune from O IS G's posts!
  
  
• From: O_IS_G (@ 217.17.235.2) on: Fri Jan 4 06:34:55 EST 2002
  
  I am not cruel!I am not trying to equate IR's work with that of Deva's.I was just trying to say IR too has used a standard sloka meter(let me keep the other gentleman happy!)in a film song.
  
  Deva too had changed the Stanzas probably out of fear!(Ummachi Kannai Kuthidum!)
  
  Lets not do a justification saying Parthiban's name in the movie was Vinayagam,the picturisation was nice etc ...If the May Matham's Sonali's name was Venkatachalapathy in the movie then ARR would have got a full justification;the picturistion too was pleasant!(Just joking!!No intention to hurt anyone.)
  
  OISG (what's in a name?)
  
  

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