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Great Impact of ARR on Indian contemporary Music and IsaiGnani

Topic started by The Fan (@ spider-we053.proxy.aol.com) on Thu Nov 12 02:16:07 EST 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

By now we must appreciate the positive qualities of ARR's musical genre or style and interpretations. ARR has single handendly made film music and that too, Tamil film music one of the most favorite discussion topics anywhere. He reengineered or turned around the concept of film music in India and made it a pop culture. Though there is something left to be desired in his creativity, he has forever changed the landscape of Indian film music. Taking it to a different platform, he has escaped comparisons and stands at the heap of a new generation of musical presentation and thought. I feel glad that ARR happened at the right time to Indian films. Otherwise look what might have happened to Isaignani, who probably would've lost the inspiration to stay around. ARR's has woken up IR from his classical mode and made IR change mode to a trendy style, eg: KM and MVU, each filmy score of IR getting more experimental and in tune with current taste for music. In other words, I personally thank ARR for being the EYES AND EARS OF IR. New rhythms, extremely different melodic structures. etc.. In addition, ARR is gaining on to be the next icon of music in Indian film music, maybe not in Tamil film music, however. This is what we need. New persectives, a 360 degree difference in styles. In this thread, it will be beneficial to talk about how ARR brought in new things that made us wonder why didn't our other composers attempt this, so easy, so out there, why didn't they. And,difficult innovations that challenged even IR. This will discussion should be purely to discuss the impact of ARR's contributions and his impact on IR's creative styles.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Mukund (@ sd-ppp-293.abac.net) on: Fri Mar 5 01:57:07 EST 1999
  
  Hi Srinath and everyone,
  
  As for ARR's influence on IR, I would like to say this -
  
  ARR's influence on IR is manifested in IR's music in the form of KR - and the results are terrible. Why I say this is because even though I can identify precisely what songs have the stamp of KR, since it is all in Mottai's name you have to consider it as IR's music only.
  
  And KR's experimentation with music behind IR's name makes me sick.
  
  Let me take Kaathal KAvithai - 1. "Thathom - Ila Arun", 2. "Diana Diana" 3. Kaathal Meethu 4. Manasa Thotta Kaathal etc. (except Alai Meedhu) are 100% KR's songs only. KR's songs which have been composed not with his own individuality in mind but with the thoughts of beating ARR in his own game !! And the results are disastrous.
  
  Otherwise I am not able to see any ARR influences in IR's music in Poonthottam, PVK, Dharma, Sendhooram, DG etc. These songs only make me feel that IR is coming up with new stuff. For eg. MVU is a great album - even "manasa killi" which I did not like initially is great after a few careful listenings - if you guys get a chance hear the pieces where it starts as "malayil manjal" - I feel they are absolutely IRish.
  
  If there have been changes in such IRish songs and they have escaped me - then I feel they are abolutely wonderful improvisations on part of IR to change things so subtly.
  
  Initially I used to ignore the KR factor - but after a long time I disliked the major part of an album - that is KK. Impossible. Take Shock adikkum in thodarum - those low voices in BG which come in once in a while - like a "vikkal" destroy the whole song and I am 100% sure it is not IR's style.
  
  Mukund
  
  Mukund
  
  
• From: Mukund (@ sd-ppp-293.abac.net) on: Fri Mar 5 01:57:41 EST 1999
  
  Hi Srinath and everyone,
  
  As for ARR's influence on IR, I would like to say this -
  
  ARR's influence on IR is manifested in IR's music in the form of KR - and the results are terrible. Why I say this is because even though I can identify precisely what songs have the stamp of KR, since it is all in Mottai's name you have to consider it as IR's music only.
  
  And KR's experimentation with music behind IR's name makes me sick.
  
  Let me take Kaathal KAvithai - 1. "Thathom - Ila Arun", 2. "Diana Diana" 3. Kaathal Meethu 4. Manasa Thotta Kaathal etc. (except Alai Meedhu) are 100% KR's songs only. KR's songs which have been composed not with his own individuality in mind but with the thoughts of beating ARR in his own game !! And the results are disastrous.
  
  Otherwise I am not able to see any ARR influences in IR's music in Poonthottam, PVK, Dharma, Sendhooram, DG etc. These songs only make me feel that IR is coming up with new stuff. For eg. MVU is a great album - even "manasa killi" which I did not like initially is great after a few careful listenings - if you guys get a chance hear the pieces where it starts as "malayil manjal" - I feel they are absolutely IRish.
  
  If there have been changes in such IRish songs and they have escaped me - then I feel they are abolutely wonderful improvisations on part of IR to change things so subtly.
  
  Initially I used to ignore the KR factor - but after a long time I disliked the major part of an album - that is KK. Impossible. Take Shock adikkum in thodarum - those low voices in BG which come in once in a while - like a "vikkal" destroy the whole song and I am 100% sure it is not IR's style.
  
  Mukund
  
  
• From: Raj (@ master.hyd.deshaw.com) on: Fri Mar 5 06:12:18 EST 1999
  
  Hey! Sri, Finally i found an issue to differ with you(Would that make me objective?) ..:)
  
  I dont agree with the generic stuff. However, in the absence of data, I desist from theorizing. What do you mean generic? Well, lets talk examples not perceptions,alright?.
  
  As Mukund says, except KK, in which ,as srikanth or someone claimed that he had actually seen KR at work(something about the guy so dedicatedly skipping lunch to work on polishing Raja's tunes...gawd! I wish KR pays more attention to his digestive system if this ,KK, is going to be the result of his sacrifice ), the rest of Raja's recent work don't carry the ARR/KR influence. And while I may not think that PVK, Dharma ,Sendooram are great , I found Poonthottam an excellent specimen of vintage Raja. I think you are not familiar with Poonthottam. And it is not generic, either, though I dont need to state this separately because the statement that it is vintage Raja directly implies this. "Iniya Malargal" has the right mix of the sentimental affection to the house of Devayani and co., ,a s well as the sad note on the dispute over it and their helplessness . You can feel it when Raja stresses at "Inbam ennum thottam..", the soft emotions and the nostalgia it evokes in them. And when he carefully adds "Vasanatham vandha podhum , Venil vandha podhum..", the right note of nostalgia and sadness over the current state of insecurity over their continuing to possess it can be sensed.
  To me, the musical(bass, ragam, etc. etc.) aspects are secondary. I only see the emotion it is suppsoed to invoke and whether it does that perfectly. And I feel that You are off the mark when you say Raja is generic. Poonthottam was just an example. Dont tell me it is an isolated instance(Oh!I know you wont...still ,I am used to pre-empting :))...if I am not discussing other instances, it is for fear of repetition(And when you post posts of the length I do, you had better be careful to avoid repetition:)).
  
  
  I take this opportunity to fully utilise my first opportunity to disagree with you and whats more, refute your claim. Hey!Now what? Which one of us qualifies to be objective? I suppose its you. Sri, dont tell me you want to be 'object'ive...:)
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ 210-165-45.ipt.aol.com) on: Fri Mar 5 08:38:35 EST 1999
  
  Nah ! You can keep all the objectiveness ! I am happy being who I am ;-)
  
  Ok simple question...to whom goes the credit for Kadhalukku Mariyadhai ? If your answer is IR, I stand vindicated. OTOH, if it is KR, Oh ! My Gawd ! You are not enough of a fan of IR to give him credit where it is due ! ;-)
  
  The very fact that IR repeated a couple of numbers from KM as cheerful and pathos versions shows that the songs were pretty much generic. I know he has done this before. But previously there would be a significant difference even if he repeated the tune for a pathos version. But this time, I am not able to remember if the tune running in my head (Ennai Thaalaata Varuvalo) is for the happy version or the sad version - whose style does this remind you of ? One Mr.A.R.Rahman !
  
  So explaining away IR's poor songs (read ARRish songs) as KR's fault or YSR's fault is not fully justifiable. Again, it is only IR's approach towards music that I am worried is being influenced by ARR. On one hand you claim that IR is able to adjust to modern styles (now, couldn't that 'modern' style possibly be ARR's style ?) and on the other you say that his style has not changed over the years. His talent or genius might not have changed, but his approach certainly has. And that I do not like. :-)
  
  
• From: Anand Mahadevan (@ freedum.proxy.lucent.com) on: Fri Mar 5 09:46:59 EST 1999
  
  srinath,
  IR's approach to music(starting from pure western, getting into carnatic and eventually evolving his own style) has metamorphazied over a period of time and its just one of those things that we now find a mordern tinge to his compositions.
  He has been trying to be diff but apparently has figured out that the only way to reach the masses is to keep the orchestration and complexity to the min.
  "Ennai Thaalata vaaruvala" is simple and this has caught on like fire as opposed to songs in "poonthotam".
  When U walk in with a bundle of cash and sit with IR to compose songs for your movie,you are dictated by some commercial element.
  A lot of factors have gone into to this change in psyche by the masses.
  Shashi,I will not attribute this change only to ARR.He was one of the many factors.
  One thing I liked about IR is his intelligent use of mordern equipments.In the midst of kuppai, he has churned out some all time classics and if one looks at it closely it would be those movies where he has been given a lot of freedom to experiment.
  In his hey days that(freedom to experiment) was his birth right.He ran his creative psyche amock and was on a roll.Now his creativity is controlled by external factors.
  Probably ,financial factors are forcing him to accept movies left,right and center and in the process churning out some nonsense.But one has to wait and see, as to how long this tide will run.
  This only proves the time tested cliche, "Art and material do'nt go hand in hand".Its almost impossible to be an artiste and an busineesman.They are about the best possible extremities one can think of.
  
  
  
  
  
• From: Raj (@ master.hyd.deshaw.com) on: Fri Mar 5 09:54:18 EST 1999
  
  1. Yes, I will give credit to Raja for KM. And I dont understand what you mean by pathos version of Ennai Thalatta ...now, which one would be that?
  Honestly, I dont see any pathos version of Ennai Thalatta in KM, unless you are one of those easily moved-to-tears guy who is affected by Bhavadharini's "Idhu sangeetha thirunaalo" :)
  (Maybe, it was the BR effect that gave you an impression that it was a pathos version?Oh!No, Karthi is going to murder me for this:)). No, musically his style remains. Trust me, beg ,borrow or steal but get ANthapuram now and tell me if you discern Karthik's mischief in it. Not to speak of Rahman-influence.
  
  2. Explaining away IR's songs as KR'S:No, I am not.I thought sendooram was ordinary but I'll hold Raja not kartik responsibel for that. I thought KK was ordinary but I wont hold Raja fully responsible for the score as such, though he cannot escape the moral responsibility of entrusting the task to Karthik. But I think, to sweep all of Raja's recent output as either Rahman-influenced style or Karthik-spoilt style is generalisation to the point of inaccuracy.
  Poonthottam was definitely good. Kizhakkum Merkum was very good. Vintage Raja,they were,too.
  
  
  3. As regards approach, I must confess I am coming around to your conclusion. Using Ila arun, et al. Which is sad.
  
  But that generic stuff, I still disagree.
  And, hey!Do you thin I can ever be objective..not on my life..:)
  
  

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