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Great Impact of ARR on Indian contemporary Music and IsaiGnani

Topic started by The Fan (@ spider-we053.proxy.aol.com) on Thu Nov 12 02:16:07 EST 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

By now we must appreciate the positive qualities of ARR's musical genre or style and interpretations. ARR has single handendly made film music and that too, Tamil film music one of the most favorite discussion topics anywhere. He reengineered or turned around the concept of film music in India and made it a pop culture. Though there is something left to be desired in his creativity, he has forever changed the landscape of Indian film music. Taking it to a different platform, he has escaped comparisons and stands at the heap of a new generation of musical presentation and thought. I feel glad that ARR happened at the right time to Indian films. Otherwise look what might have happened to Isaignani, who probably would've lost the inspiration to stay around. ARR's has woken up IR from his classical mode and made IR change mode to a trendy style, eg: KM and MVU, each filmy score of IR getting more experimental and in tune with current taste for music. In other words, I personally thank ARR for being the EYES AND EARS OF IR. New rhythms, extremely different melodic structures. etc.. In addition, ARR is gaining on to be the next icon of music in Indian film music, maybe not in Tamil film music, however. This is what we need. New persectives, a 360 degree difference in styles. In this thread, it will be beneficial to talk about how ARR brought in new things that made us wonder why didn't our other composers attempt this, so easy, so out there, why didn't they. And,difficult innovations that challenged even IR. This will discussion should be purely to discuss the impact of ARR's contributions and his impact on IR's creative styles.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: dorai (@ gateway7.ey.com) on: Wed Mar 3 14:54:12 EST 1999
  
  Srinath,
  I read your postings. But do not understand how IR
  is influenced by ARR. I don't think IR is influenced by anyone except his film Directors and Producers. So far, I have not seen neither positive or negative influence of ARR on IR.
  
  IR knows how to compose music. He knows how and when to use the right instrument or the right technique. He is a "Music University" by himself. He is the only one who still composes with his own and original style and
  still uses modern instruments and techniques. That does not mean he is being influenced by ARR and the rest.
  
  Infact IR maynot have used the so called "layering techinque". So what thats not the end of Music. He has used several other techniques and composed great and everlasting songs.
  
  
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ ss05.nc.us.ibm.com) on: Wed Mar 3 15:28:15 EST 1999
  
  ARR's (IMO, negative) influence on IR is so blatantly obvious that there is no unique way of explaining it - unless, of course, you proclaim it to be co-incidence !
  
  
• From: dorai (@ gateway7.ey.com) on: Wed Mar 3 19:00:41 EST 1999
  
  Srinath,
  Could you give me an example of ARR's negative influence on IR.
  
  Just because IR is using keyboard a lot and reduced using Voilins I don't think its a
  negative influence. Is IR composing like ARR ?. The answer is NO. So where is the influence ?.
  
  Take the recent hits like KM, KK etc. Can you pinpoint a song which has ARR's influence.
  
  Whether its in Dianna Dianna, or 'Ennai Thaalata Varuvalo' or 'Alaimeedu...' IR is in his original style.
  
  IR never uses heavy metal or Rock. He is still composing in Traditional South Indian Style of course with his favourite WC mixes.
  
  
• From: dorai (@ gateway7.ey.com) on: Wed Mar 3 19:14:35 EST 1999
  
  Srinath,
  To add to my above posting, IR has always tried to cope up with the evolving taste of the people with out compromising the quality of his compositions and music.
  
  He cannot be composing music like the way he did it in Annakili, 16 vayathinelle and so on. He has constantly experimented new things and produced very nice variety of songs.
  
  IMO, he has not been influenced by any MD so far.
  
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ 210-162-61.ipt.aol.com) on: Wed Mar 3 23:20:11 EST 1999
  
  dorai:
  Has IR learnt some music from ARR ? NO !
  
  Has IR learnt some tricks of the trade from ARR ? YES !
  
  IR's approach towards music (synthesizing, using the wrong singers, producing generic music that could be a sad song or a dappanguthu or a love failure or a love success or whatever, it wouldn't sound any different) has been influenced by ARR.
  
  And IR's greatest crime - using a phlegmatic non-singer like Hariharan just because ARR made him famous. But I appreciate the fact that IR hasn't stooped down to the level of using Udit Narayan - that's one cross ARR will have to bear alone all his life :-))
  
  So ARR has definitely influenced IR's music and for the worse at that. If not, explain why I should turn away from IR AND ARR ? Please don't tell me that the fault lies in my taste ! That's the absolute last thing that would convince me !
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ 210-162-61.ipt.aol.com) on: Wed Mar 3 23:23:40 EST 1999
  
  BTW, I think it is pretty peevish of you to say that *no* MD has influenced IR when even he would happily admit that MSV has taught him some nuances of TFM :-)
  
  
• From: dorai (@ gateway7.ey.com) on: Thu Mar 4 10:02:27 EST 1999
  
  Srinath,
  I don't think by using Hariharan, IR has been influenced by ARR. As a MD, you got to use the best and the most popular singers in the field. Otherwise, take for example, MSV not using SPB just because he was introduced by KVM would be not be right. This has been the practice in the music industry. Using the best talent at the time. Could you now say that MSV's music is influenced by KVM just because he used SPB. We all know how great TMS was at that time. Still, MSV used SPB just because he saw something new in SPB
  
  Regarding Synthesing, IR has synthesized much before even ARR touched this synthesizer.
  
  I dont understand what generic music is all about.
  
  Regarding your second reply about MSV's influence on IR. Yes I agree, even IR has said that in many stages publicly. All I was refering to the active MDs of the current age.
  
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ ss05.nc.us.ibm.com) on: Thu Mar 4 11:24:02 EST 1999
  
  dorai:
  I think we are debating on the meaning of the term 'influence'. From my point of view, whatever changes were introduced in IR's music directly as a result of the entry of a person called A.R.Rahman in TFM, is considered ARR's 'influence' on IR. Particularly because these deviations were 'further away' from IR's style and 'closer' to ARR's style of composing music. Not even for one moment am I claiming that IR is producing the same kind of music that ARR does (to be honest, at times, I feel it is inferior compared to ARR). IMO, IR is only producing music in the same manner that ARR does - different music, same method !
  
  And TMS fans, please don't get a heart-attack, but I think TMS has never been a match for SPB. IMO, SPB is the greatest thing to happen to TFM after IR. OTOH, Hariharan, as I love to say, is a phlegmatic, non-singer - a midget in a world of giants.
  
  
• From: rajiv (@ 208.238.117.18) on: Thu Mar 4 14:00:32 EST 1999
  
  srinath,
  i agree with you completely! that was a great point about IR composing generic music nowadays.. i never thought it from that angle..
  
  
• From: dorai (@ gateway7.ey.com) on: Thu Mar 4 16:46:16 EST 1999
  
  Srinath,
  Two things.
  1. Whatis the same method of composing you are refering to. What other method was IR using before ARR's entry into the field.
  2. Don't compare TMS with SPB. TMS is a class of his own not to be compared with anyone.What I was refering to was TMS was highly popular at the time SPB was entering into the field and MSV used him inspite of TMS being a good and popular singer
  3. Even now, I really do not understand what "GENERIC" music is all about. Please enlighten me.
  
  IMO, IRs music is getting better day by day (as you can see in KM, KK et al) and it cannot be because of negative influence of ARR.
  
  
• From: Anand Mahadevan (@ freedum.proxy.lucent.com) on: Thu Mar 4 17:18:57 EST 1999
  
  Srinath,
  Your point of IR getting worked up on his quality and imbibing shades of ARRish style into his composition is more dicated from the wants of the director and the producer of a film.Left to himself he would have certainly taken a different road.Using Hariharan is a direct result of the market trends.As an MD you are certainly restricted to your composition.The choice of playback singer is a different ball game with a lot of players influencing the decsion making process.Ultimately the paymaster has the final say and in this case its the producer.The room IR has is limited these days as his influence in the film industry has considerably dwindled(commercially).
  He is left with no choice but to listen and obey to the dictums of the producer.Guess, in his hey days he could have exerterd a much stronger say.
  On the point of going Arrish is also a direct influnce of the market forces.Rajiv Anchal who made Guru gave him absolute freedom and the net result was a mastepiece.
  I do'nt think there has been any decline in IR's ability to innovate and bring out gems.
  Whats sapped out of TFM is quality both in terms of film making and music .I also will blame the listeners who have completely lost the ablility to discern(Not that they had it in plenty but whatever was there is gone).
  An example being,"Meetatha oru veenai" was a non-starter in chennai.I was surprised to find that I am the only person rooting for that song.There has been a qualtaitive shift it the listening capabilities.One ca'nt pinpoint reasons for it but general degradation has set in and is well underway.
  
  
  
  
• From: S.T.Srinivasan (@ firewall.baan.com) on: Thu Mar 4 20:36:00 EST 1999
  
  ARR influences IR?! Nonsense. I don't know whether these guys listened to IRs music. Hope they are comparing ARR with KR or YSR. For heavens shake don't compare IR with ARR. Listen to En Suvasaka Kaatre(ESK) and Jodi. I think ARR is lost with 10 films. Many of the tunes in ESK are similar to some hindi tunes and tunes of ARR! Change of singers or techniques will not creat music. I accept ARR is intelligent but IR is genius. I feel Deva composes better tunes than ARR.
  
  
• From: Shashi (@ fw1xlate1.mayo.edu) on: Thu Mar 4 21:26:49 EST 1999
  
  Hello Anand
  
  Let me first commend you on your posting. Good analysis.
  
  Your conclusion: Raja(currently) is dictated by Producer/Director's demands.
  
  However, one has to remember that even the Producers' demand (such as wanting Hariharan etc) are primarily based on what they consider is the 'request/demand from the public'. Although, your observation about the general degradation of musical tastes among the masses does seem plausible, it has other explanations---discussed in a previous thread--i.e., 'Standards are always falling as per an older generation!!'; 'there was a similar fall of standards when SV Venkataraman was usurped by G Ramanathan who was replaced by MSV/KVM who were overthrown by Raja whose market is falling, not withstanding ARR's dominance'
  
  In any case, public tastes were changed by ARR quite dramatically (when Raja was still ruling). So, in a round about way, if the Producers today are demanding such music from Raja, it is ARR's influence on the music industry. That seems to be the topic of this thread as well.
  
  Finally you may not like a lot of Raja's recent compositions and are wondering why 'Meetatha Oru Veenai' did not become a super-duper hit, especially when compared to 'Kannodu kanbathelam' from Jeans(I am completely with you in both these instances)-- but that is exactly what ARR seems to have done--i.e., change the musical preferences of the public, which by itself is quite an accomplishment and most certainly an influence (good or bad?) on the music industry.
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ 167-231-173.ipt.aol.com) on: Thu Mar 4 22:08:08 EST 1999
  
  dorai:
  Generic is the opposite of specific. According to dictionary.com the closest explanation for my usage of the term is "applicable to an entire class or group". That is by saying IR is producing generic music, I mean that he composes a song that could easily be a sad song or a happy song or a love song or a nostalgic song - it is not representative of a single specimen. It could be used to represent an entire class or group - here the class or group being songs - as opposed to a specimen being a love song or a sad song. And this, I do not herald as a talent :-)
  
  Perhaps I have not added enough IMOs and IMHOs in expressing the opinion that SPB is better than TMS. So here I shall compensate - IMO, IMHO, I think, the way I see it, from my point of view, by my perception, my choice is, what attracts me is, I am inclined to believe, from my personal experience....etc
  
  You can take any of these phrases and append them or prepend them or insert them with or without modifications in my previous posting so that you can see it as my opinion rather than a claim to be debated. Anyday, anytime, I prefer listening to SPB than a nasal (again, here I go...IMO, IMHO,...etc) TMS :-)
  
  Anand:
  So you do agree with my premise that IR is influenced by ARR negatively ?
  
  

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