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Great Impact of ARR on Indian contemporary Music and IsaiGnani

Topic started by The Fan (@ spider-we053.proxy.aol.com) on Thu Nov 12 02:16:07 EST 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

By now we must appreciate the positive qualities of ARR's musical genre or style and interpretations. ARR has single handendly made film music and that too, Tamil film music one of the most favorite discussion topics anywhere. He reengineered or turned around the concept of film music in India and made it a pop culture. Though there is something left to be desired in his creativity, he has forever changed the landscape of Indian film music. Taking it to a different platform, he has escaped comparisons and stands at the heap of a new generation of musical presentation and thought. I feel glad that ARR happened at the right time to Indian films. Otherwise look what might have happened to Isaignani, who probably would've lost the inspiration to stay around. ARR's has woken up IR from his classical mode and made IR change mode to a trendy style, eg: KM and MVU, each filmy score of IR getting more experimental and in tune with current taste for music. In other words, I personally thank ARR for being the EYES AND EARS OF IR. New rhythms, extremely different melodic structures. etc.. In addition, ARR is gaining on to be the next icon of music in Indian film music, maybe not in Tamil film music, however. This is what we need. New persectives, a 360 degree difference in styles. In this thread, it will be beneficial to talk about how ARR brought in new things that made us wonder why didn't our other composers attempt this, so easy, so out there, why didn't they. And,difficult innovations that challenged even IR. This will discussion should be purely to discuss the impact of ARR's contributions and his impact on IR's creative styles.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Raj (@ master.hyd.deshaw.com) on: Sat Feb 27 08:42:39 EST 1999
  
  Suresh: Ata boy!
  Please give your e-mail address. You have expressed what I held back for diplomatic reasons and whats more, have expressed it in precisely the fashion I would have wanted to :)..Man, you deserve Raja-Ratna and more...:)
  Continue the good work.
  
  
• From: Ravi (@ envy.cs.umass.edu) on: Sat Feb 27 08:57:10 EST 1999
  
  Suresh: Geetha was having trouble accessing this page yesterday and wrote to us asking us to help her. That is the reason I posted on her behalf. We would have extended the same courtesy to others too, and have in the past, irrespective of the stand they take in the DF. That doesn't necessarily mean we agree with their views.
  
  
• From: cram (@ 206.103.12.102) on: Sat Feb 27 10:53:37 EST 1999
  
  top notch innings, suresh. u simply hit the nail on the head.
  
  Jai IR!
  
  
• From: bb (@ schubert.crhc.uiuc.edu) on: Sat Feb 27 17:09:16 EST 1999
  
  geetha: Thanks for reviving this thread Ravi and Gang....
  revive panninadhu naan, thanks ravikkaa:-))))))
  
  suresh: neenga solla varradhu kadaisile mountain has gone to mohammed maadhiri irukku.. commercial valuekkaaga thannai maathikkaadha geniuses evvalavO pEr irundhirukaanga..hhmmmm...
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ 173-11-69.ipt.aol.com) on: Sat Feb 27 18:59:42 EST 1999
  
  Geetha:
  If you are wondering why IR fans are so thin-skinned...read the last paragraph in Suresh's post again - people in this forum consider it objective, neutral and justifiable to praise MSV as the founding father of Light Music and ARR as its greatest contemporary proponent. We too believe IR is a has-been (funny phrase, that) - but boy ! has he ever been ! In fact, he has been so much that we also believe that no one else can be as much as he has been. We feel a genuine sorrow at the degradation of an incredible music genius. Others' nonchalant attitude ("...IR was there, so what ? ARR has replaced him...") is an implied insult to our belief that the greatest period in the history of contemporary Indian music is gone. They may throw stones at us (rather choice epithets like "fanatics", "murderous rogues", "spoil-sports", "fan-club fascists" whatever) but they cannot deny the fact that we feel a very real anguish that that which has given us so much pleasure lies barren today.
  
  Enjoy your music - cursed be he who tries to deny you that. But, spare a thought for what we are talking about.
  
  As for layering....? To simply respond to your opinion, layering is a technique (it is not even a 'true' musical term to the best of my knowledge) by which the composer arranges several instruments to play complementary and contrasting notes to the primary tune as well as the other instruments. Has IR learnt this from ARR ? Without getting emotional about something so trivial, the answer is NO ! Heck ! IR went overboard with Annakili where 'layering' is concerned ! This does not dismiss ARR's efforts or talents in any way. I am only saying that IR did not "learn" this "technique" from ARR ! Or strictly speaking, IR did not learn it to improve his standard of music. Whatever he learnt from ARR, he lost a potential customer in me about 5 years back ! Mind you, I am still a fan - just not a customer anymore !
  
  What, then, makes everyone appreciate ARR's 'layering' ? Hey ! how about that bass from Humma ! I have never come across a more strained effort from any composer ! *That* effort is what everybody seems to be appreciating. Do you know how much of IR's 'layering' has gone unnoticed simply because they were composed to play their part as a supplement to the import of the song ? ARR accentuates that which ought not to be accentuated. I am not saying that ARR cannot do it the right way. He is only doing it the way people want it. And if this is what IR has learnt from ARR, maybe I should suggest a slight change in the title of this thread. Come to think of it, the title is pretty ambiguous as it is ! Impact indeed ! One that IR could have done without !
  
  We see you showering praise on ARR - fully justified and particularly because you are not trying to impose it on anyone. But for no fault of yours, you give the impression that you do not credit IR with even a comparable effort. And ridiculous claims pop-up asking you to pay obeisance to "The God !" :-) (Ooops ! Smiley there !) I am sure you would be the first to admit that neither ARR nor IR need your certification. And you are absolutely right there - I don't remember having debated you for praising ARR. But when you claim that IR has learnt *anything* from ARR to *improve* his music (not the recording, not the recording, no, no, please not the recording !!!!), I find it a little hard to digest. I stopped listening to IR precisely for this one reason - he was influenced by ARR's brand of instant music.
  
  Thus, I refute your claim that ARR has influenced IR positively.
  
  Raj:
  Ellorukkum, IR-Ratna, Raja-Ratna, IR-Oscar, ellaam koduthuteenga...yenakku ? :-)
  
  (Oh! BTW, Geetha, the groupism has nothing to do with my opinions. I just vibe better with some people in the DF and we tend to talk about things that are not relevant to the current discussion. So my addressing Raj is on a personal basis than as part of my views on this topic.)
  
  
• From: neruppu (@ beecher11.bch.uc.edu) on: Sat Feb 27 22:16:12 EST 1999
  
  hey SURESH and SRINATH,
  what can i say? mind blowing! It was like watching Tendulkar and Ganguly score centuries within the first 25 overs against pakistan!!
  I could identify very much with most of your views but i refrained from posting because anything one says on behalf of IR becomes sycophancy and if one praises MSV or ARR,one becomes "neutral"! Now, WHAT THE HECK!
  As a case of extreme hypothesis, if IR absent-mindedly wore KR's jean pants and a white shirt and happens to walk in a desert oneday, THAT WILL BE THE DAY and i can foresee jubliant "neutral" fingers dancing merrily on keyboards with extensive thesis on 'inspiration'.
  As for talks about 'groupism', i will be infact very proud if i could be part of a 'group' that melts to the greatest melodies of TFM! I cannot but remember what Kamal had once said-"we were born to the music of MSV but grew with that of IR!" yes, we are not a 'group' that you try to make out of us. rather, we are part of a 'CULT'! and atleast, i for one, am very happy with that!
  
  
• From: Murali Sankar (@ 129.252.22.112) on: Sat Feb 27 23:13:20 EST 1999
  
  Srinath:
  
  Beautiful explanation on layering and IR. I suppose nobody can counter your statement that IR is undeniably the greatest in it. I have tried to to track down individual tracks of some IR songs and had always ended with great failure due to the perfect mixing. But I have not seen much difficulty in doing the same with ARR's. I think IR's is a more homogeneous mixture than ARR"s.
  
  
• From: Raj (@ master.hyd.deshaw.com) on: Sun Feb 28 01:07:39 EST 1999
  
  
  DIGRESSION:
  Hey!Sri, welcome back! With a bang , at that!
  Unaku enna pattam kudukkarathuppa...Raja-kku award kudukkara maadhiri thaan unakku pattam kudukkarathum! Everyone knows you deserve it everytime but somehow....:).
  
  END DIGRESSION.
  
  So, that was what this layering was all about. Honestly, suresh's observation is sinking in now: We, atleast, I tend to shrink when such technical terms are thrown about. Great observations sri.But do u think they'll get back with refutations? No, sir. Now, why is it that the supposedly blind Raja-fanatics like Srinath painstakingly resort to logical arguments , taking pains to substantiate every argument and charge. Whereas what we get on thew otehr side is blanket statements and no substantiation?
  This has been perplexing me ever since I happened to start loitering around this forum.
  
  Groupism be dashed...continue in the same vein, sri and suresh. When there are two schools of thought , tehre are bound to be subscribers on eitehr side. I have had occasion to mention this before: The IR-is-grreat school is supposed to be nazist, intolerant bunch of fanatics. Yet, always this group has only arguments relevant to the issue under discussion . Whereas the liberal, open group always ends up resorting to "You are fanatics..you are all grouping up to bash us" kind of argument instead of refuting the arguments raised . See what has happened in this thread. There was a blank accusation that we are blind to Raja's copies, rahman-impact etc. When a srinath comes in and refutes this logically, there is no sign of the prosecution at all!
  
  I wish I knew a little more about the technicalities of music...atleast I wouldnt be intimidated by mere term-throwing !
  
  
  
  
  
• From: rajiv (@ 208.238.117.18) on: Tue Mar 2 13:25:26 EST 1999
  
  'attention to every note' was claimed to be arr's biggest contribution to tfm.. i'd like to say that arr's attention to detail is an inevitable result from the lack of flow in his music.. he necessarily HAS to sit on each bit of his compositions and sharpen them to perfection because they weren't the product of creative flow in the first place! IMO IR has no need to spend eternity over each detail in his song because the very process of creation (based on intuition) ensures that all components fit.
  
  
  
  
• From: Raj (@ master.hyd.deshaw.com) on: Tue Mar 2 14:32:28 EST 1999
  
  Hmm...looks like the coin has an other side...I mean, no body is bothering to defend their claims on Layering etc...So, Iam not the only one to be intimidated by a technically better-endowed(w.r.t music)post:)
  
  

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