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Kannadhaasan Vs. Vairamuthu TFM Symposium Topic 3: Thaththuvap Paadalgal

Topic started by Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on Wed Jul 15 19:13:39 EDT 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

For a good understanding of how to approach this ongoing symposium, please refer to the thread, "Kannadhaasan Vs. Vairamuthu TFM Symposium Topic 1:Iyarkai Varnanai" before you post. Let me reiterate that this is not a patti mandram, but
a research symposium.
Please show TFM examples of both poets with regards to just Thaththuvap Paadalgal
for this thread.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Thu Jul 23 18:30:33 EDT 1998
  
  
  closing italics
  
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Thu Jul 23 21:13:48 EDT 1998
  
  
  Here's my summation for Kannadhaasan Vs. VM in thaththuvap paadalgal:
  It's no mystery who has the upper hand in this category--Kannadhaasan of
  course. But I think even hardcore Kannadhaasan fans will admit their
  surprise at the 28 songs turned out by VM. Given the changing trends
  against philosophical songs, VM's 28+ songs figure prominently against
  Kannadhaasan's 52+ songs.
  Kannadhaasan sweeps this category based on the rich varied sources of
  his influence. I think philosophy very easily lends itself to Kannadhaasan's
  fleeting stance on many moral, religious, political, and social issues.
  Celebrating ambiguity and irony is a philosopher's gift and Kannadhaasan
  is nearly peerless in TFM in this respect. VM's vision never leaves room
  for ambiguities. His stance is clearly branded in all his songs. There
  is rarely a struggle emotionally, or morally, and by his own admittance
  he rarely entertains "vazhkayin nilaiyaamai". These things while making
  VM a refreshing voice of optimism and action also limit him from
  exploring the darker areas of life which (IMO of course) is important
  in "thaththuvap paadalgal".
  I will start the next topic in this symposium, "vaarthai prayogam". See you all there.
  
  
  
• From: Pagalavan (@ bbn-cache-3.cisco.com) on: Fri Jul 24 13:22:51 EDT 1998
  
  Let me add some more gems of kaNNadAsan:
  
  nellukkuLLE maNiyai
  neruppinilE oLiyai..
  .. .. ..
  vaiththa theivam unakku illaiyA,
  kaNNE unakku illaiyA.. (song: kAlamagaL kaN thiRappAL chinnaiyA..)
  
  In another song, avanukkenna thOOngivittAn agappattavan nAnallavA.. (from periya idaththup peN) kaNNadAsan compares the comparisons themselves in his characteristic style.
  
  yAnaikkenRu irakkam vaiththAn
  kAkkaikenRu uRavu vaiththAn
  mAngaLukku mAnam vaiththAn
  manithanukku enna vaiththAn..
  
  In another song apparently sung by a kudimagan here comes another kaNNadAsan-brand thaththuva muththu.
  
  kadavuL padaichchAn ulagam oNNAchchu..
  manushan kudichchAn ulagam reNdAchchu..
  :
  :
  ada mEEn seththA karuvAdu
  nEE seththa veRunkOOdu
  yArudA periyavan dOi..
  
  Bones, your list was good. Except that you have added yAr siriththAl enna.. written by vAli for idhayaththil nEE.
  
  Udhaya, you will agree with me that mere number comparison is not an objective comparison. Ofcourse, even when we weigh the stuff, kaNNadAsan is at the top (as you have mentioned), there is no doubt.
  
  IMO, kaNNadAsan's philosophy has eLimai and no complications. At times, his lines appear to have come from a gnAni; at times they appear to come from a friend philosopher; at times they appear to have emerged from a sarAsari manithan too. OTOH, VM's lines certainly have some impact but they donot touch the way kaNNadAsan's lines do. Frankly, I find it very hard to even list columbus.. and OOrvasi.. (sorry, kAnchanA, TIEP :-)) in this category. As for as thaththuvam is concerned, kaNNadAsan oru arunsoRp poruL kaLanjiyam, VM oru siRu kuRippu, ofcourse, IMHO.
  
  
  
• From: Bharat (@ isdbsd1-inet.ci.mil.wi.us) on: Fri Jul 24 13:57:42 EDT 1998
  
  TIEP?
  
  
• From: Kanchana (@ spider-ti082.proxy.aol.com) on: Fri Jul 24 14:28:10 EDT 1998
  
  Pags:
  T..I..E..P thaththuvam illaiyO?
  sari, Take It Easy Policy! :-)
  
  Bharat:
  TIEP is my abbreviation for "Take it Easy Policy" as in the oorvasi oorvasi song. I'd tried to seriously analyze its philosophical implications earlier. :-))
  
  My Summation/Opinions:
  kaNNadhAsan spans the philosophical spectrum starting from day-to-day pragmatism to the ultimate spiritual fulfilment, all presented in simple format and language meaningful and relevant to the common (wo)man. So, similar to the kAdhal category, his breadth and depth in this category also remain unbeatable. VM tries, but the lack of depth makes the verses "lighter" and, at times, "poppish".
  Once again, kaNNadhAsan emerges as the Incomparable.
  
  
• From: Pagalavan (@ bbn-cache-3.cisco.com) on: Fri Jul 24 17:32:22 EDT 1998
  
  Kanchana
  
  kaviyarasar wrote in sumaithAngi the following lines:
  
  unakkum kEEzE uLLavar kOdi
  nainaththup pArththu nimmathi nAdu
  
  May be these lines impressed VM also (Vaali in an article says that song, mayakkamA kalakkamA inspired/consoled him during the early days of his struggling period into TF) to modernize the same karuththu as TIEP. While I am soulfully enjoying kaNNadAsan's above lines, its very difficult for me to accept (or get touched by) TIEP. ambuttuthEng..:-)
  
  
• From: Kanchana (@ spider-tj084.proxy.aol.com) on: Fri Jul 24 18:27:01 EDT 1998
  
  Pags:
  What a coincidence! I was thinking along the same lines. The kaNNadhAsan originals for TIEP that I can think of besides the ones you've mentioned:
  
  From mayakkamA kalakkamA:
  vandha thunbam edhu vandhAlum
  vAdi ninRAl Oduvadhillai
  
  From amaidhiyiAna nadhiyinilE Odum:
  AtRangarai mEttinilE Adi niRkum nANaladhu
  kAtRadiththAl sAivadhillai kanindha manam veezhvadhillai
  
  And, only this specific line and not the other lines from this song:
  pOnAl pOgattum pOdA
  
  I concur with you that VM's updated version is not as powerful as Kaviyarasar's lines. Nonetheless, it was fun analyzing these philosophical thoughts VM bundles into the most unlikely songs. ambuttuthEng :-)
  
  
• From: Ravi (@ envy.cs.umass.edu) on: Sun Jul 26 12:00:28 EDT 1998
  
  Bhaskar: ungaLukkE theriyaatha oru abbreviationA? :-)
  
  
• From: piLLaiyAr_fan (@ bones.deneb.com) on: Mon Jul 27 06:00:35 EDT 1998
  
  Ravi:
  
  Geethavukku ennai adayALam kAtina neengaLA ? Bharat-ai
  Bhaskar-nu ninaichiteenga!!!!
  (athu sari, Bahaskarukku ennAchu - veetukku varAmA
  enna paNrAn avan ???)
  
  Pagalavan:
  ArumaiyAna summation.
  (thalai-il kuttAmA irukka mudiyAthA - nakeerA!!)
  
  mana nimmadhikkAga nAma pOga virumbum, manasukku
  pidiththa PiLLaiyAr kOil pOndrathu Kannadasan pAdalgaL.
  EthO temporaryA kavalai-ai maRakka, vEra ethaiyAvathu ninaikka
  cinemA pArkka pOvathu pOla iruppathu VM pAdalgaL .
  
  
  
  
• From: mahesh (@ ) on: Wed Jun 14 11:58:38 EDT 2000
  
  kannadasan is simply the best in history of thathuva paadal sector
  
  
• From: indira gokulachandra (@ 1cust151.tnt1.columbus.oh.da.uu.net) on: Thu Aug 2 11:13:16 EDT 2001
  
  Of course I do not want to compare..each in his own right is a great philosopher!
  Vairamuthuvin
  "en veetu kannukutti ennodu mallukatti
  en maarbil muttudadi kanmani;
  thee patta kaayathula thel vandu kottudadi kanmani...'
  "oorum therinjidichu,ulagam purinjidichu kanmani en kanmani;
  naalum therinjirichi nyaanam porandirichi kanmani en kanmani"
  thathuvathai vel pola paaichavillaya enna?
  
  
• From: G.Ragavan (@ 164.164.94.115) on: Fri Aug 3 00:49:18 EDT 2001
  
  indira, neengkal chonna padalail vethanai therikirathu. aanal enna thathuvan enru en mandaikup puriyavillai?
  
  
• From: Essel (@ a060-0653.snfc.splitrock.net) on: Fri Aug 3 02:11:23 EDT 2001
  
  Indira, those are merely statements on occurances , not a product of an incisive perception. To bring forth anything worthwhile in this area, VM has to be more than just a poet (which is what he is..PERIOD). He can make a start by shedding off his dead ideologies and becoming more sensitive to what lies beyond his box. Nature, as he would soon realise, when extended beyond flowers and leaves (which is he is heavily hooked on to), is what philosophy is all about.
  
  Indira, why this sudden
  
  
• From: SL (@ a060-0653.snfc.splitrock.net) on: Fri Aug 3 02:12:56 EDT 2001
  
  ...need to revive the symposium threads? Just curious. However, if there is anything worthwhile, please do go ahead and contribute further.
  
  
• From: mahabs (@ 203.197.138.163) on: Fri Aug 3 09:25:55 EDT 2001
  
  essel!
  
  a small correction. vm is only a lyricist.
  
  anbudan
  
  mahabs
  
  
• From: Trend (@ dev.hrchally.com) on: Fri Aug 3 11:54:27 EDT 2001
  
  I think VM at times writes pretty good lyrics.
  "Singa nadai pottu" from Padaiyappa has got a fine blend of characteristic elements for a Rajni song.Rajni's introduction song tends to be philosophical, inspiring and based on this his stand(with repect to politics).VM infuses the right amount of these into this song(IMO).
  
  Two more instances where I found his lyrics to be effective and powerful.(I'm assuming the foll. two songs are written by VM.Pls correct me if I'm wrong)
  "Ezhudhighiren oru kadidham" from "Kalki" is a fine example of what the mother aspires for the child.One line I really loved was:
  "Kanaavil kooda Sombale illamal gnanam thaeda.."
  I don't think mother's ambition for the child(imaginary in this case)can't get deeper and more genuine than this.
  
  "Chanda Oh Chanda" from "Kannedhirey thondrinaal" portrays the thought process of a heroine(Simran) who convinces herself that hero deserves her love.This song(not the picturiztion) makes the transformation of her heart and/or mind very convincing.I especially liked the line
  "ennai naane artham seidhu jeiyuthen..".
  
  All the above IMO.Sorry for this looong posting.
  
  
• From: kavitha (@ ) on: Wed Dec 26 04:07:19 EST 2001
  
  hai,
  "nellin vithai podamal nellum varuma?vervai adhu sinthamal velli panama?"-idha vida periya lines venuma
  
  
• From: Kupps (@ 156.153.255.134) on: Wed Dec 26 04:48:54 EST 2001
  
  kavitha
  
  neengaL kodittu kaatiya vari thathuvaththil saeraadhu enRu ninaikkiraen.
  
  
• From: kavitha (@ ) on: Tue Jan 8 23:04:58 EST 2002
  
  hai kupps,
  idhu pamaranukkum puriyira vazhkai thathivam."avar oru pena karar.avarin varthi kadaisi pamaranukkum poi cheranum."
  
  

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