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Everything you always wanted to talk about ARR vs. IR but were afraid..

Topic started by rajaG (@ daecfp01.sprint.com) on Wed Aug 18 17:12:52 EDT 1999.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Too many posters are using other topics to discuss/slam/comment/praise IR/ARR that I thought we could use this one thread as a catch all for all those posts. Welcome guys!!!

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Diwakar (@ 206.175.177.168) on: Thu Aug 26 16:59:42 EDT 1999
  
  Srikanth, I am quite aware that Maamman Voodu machi Voodu is "thanks to Ra ra venu ".
  
  It has taken an IR to provide the same Bilahari in two vastly different forms - Maaman Voodu and Koondhaliley Megam vandhu.
  
  Just because one liked Gavaskar's batting does not mean that Sachin is no good, or that he has done nothing great or new. Just because Saint Thyagaraja has composed 100s of songs in a wide variety of ragas does not mean that Dikshitar did not do anything new. If your point is that what IR has done has been done before, maybe the point can be grudgingly granted. But if your view is that it has been done before - AND BETTER - then, that must be taken with a keg of salt.
  
  I too have listened to MSV, KV et al.
  
  
• From: aruLarasan (@ psiphi.umsl.edu) on: Thu Aug 26 19:15:57 EDT 1999
  
  diwAkar,
  
  i don't believe in you. nobody who listens to Ir listens to others. PERIOD.
  
  ;-)
  
  
• From: paamaran (@ adsl-216-103-209-54.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) on: Thu Aug 26 19:19:51 EDT 1999
  
  Srikanth's claim - It does'nt seem to be a claim. More than inviting IR Fans to substantiate IR's contribution to TFM - ur claim invites IR Fans to be more hard core and give a step motherly! treatment to other MDs. All thro' this thread there has been no deflamotary remarks on other MDs! infact remarks on DP(Dapanguthu) songs were deflamotary on that particular form of music.
  
  RECORDING GIMMICK - thana maelolagathil irunthu kuthichu vanthicha? It's part of an MD's work - and he had done it excellently in the "Poomalaigal.." song. Maybe other MDs would've come with it earlier but unless it REALLY reaches the people it's not worth - what i mean REALLY here is "People should feel the change/innovation by themselves rather than pinpointing the change/innovation and asking people to recognize it"..
  
  What about the bit songs by IR(puthumai illatium) - it definitely had its say. Examples - "Aeri karai irukku" in Mudhal Mariayathai, "Das Das Chinappa Das" in Kadalora Kavithaigal ,"Thenpandi Seemaile" in Nayagan, "Antha vanathai pola.." in Chinna Gounder, "Manamagalae...","Vettaruva thangi..." in DevarMagan. Some of the bit songs are in dual moods - enchanting and then later they come with a melancholy note (more bethas in it)
  
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.28.53) on: Thu Aug 26 20:15:34 EDT 1999
  
  Re-recording, Dappanguthu, Interlude music etc. were the points raised by me sometime back in this thread. At that moment I did'nt bother to give examp[les, since i felt that there was no meaning in giving any examples;)) A couple of days later, I find a whole list of DP songs here;))
  
  Srikanth,
  as someone had pointed out earlier, I don't think one needs to know any 10 new technical aspects of IR to appreciate his music.
  
  realisedknown that 'kalaivaaniye' from sindhu bhairavi was composed using aarohanam alone(if not mentioned in the film), but still would have enjoyed the song. See what I mean? Of course, when u realise that, it helps u appreciate the song better, but an average listener has either the same or lesser knowledge than most of us here and so he does'nt care. I believe that IR's greatness lies in this. He was able to satisfy the critic, the connoiseur and the layman alike.
  
  how many people in villages would know that 'raasave chitherumbu kadikithu' was composed in lathangi? But did that prevent that song from becoming a hit? U can go on listing examples like these.
  
  as for listing the 10 new things done by IR, I guess you are the best person to do it;)) and perhaps u should do it without any further delay;))
  
  
• From: RameshG (@ 206.175.177.80) on: Thu Aug 26 20:36:27 EDT 1999
  
  Srikanthan
  
  When I read through some previous postings of you.
  
  I read these lines:
  
  MSV is the only Melody King in TFM
  
  
  According to your logic, It means that nobody else has done melody before MSV, appadithanae. And also if I were to go by your logic, you have not heard of music other MSV's.
  
  Because According to you if somebody praises IR then it means they have not listened to other MD's and give a step motherly treatment to other MD's.
  
  
• From: Diwakar (@ 206.175.177.168) on: Thu Aug 26 20:50:11 EDT 1999
  
  Arularasan - Touche. But honestly, I am old enough to have listened to other MDs. :-)
  
  paamaran - you have said it.
  
  
• From: enna vittudunga please (@ 1cust71.tnt1.rantoul.il.da.uu.net) on: Thu Aug 26 20:52:10 EDT 1999
  
  Srikanth's posting does not mean that nobody else has given melodies - but as you see there can be only one king - not all can become kings!!!
  
  
• From: RameshG (@ abd2e016.ipt.aol.com) on: Thu Aug 26 23:18:31 EDT 1999
  
  Srikanth
  
  Sorry I was in a hurry to leave office and so scribled two lines before I left.
  
  Now continuing my previous post:
  
  You have written that MSV is the melody king in TFM. I am not contending this. But, is it not subjective.
  
  Being a genuine fan of MSV, when somebody commented about a particular song you felt that you should add these lines.
  
  Similarly let us say, after listening to IR on the car audio I come home and look at the newtfmpage a thread on IR, get carried away, (I am not talking about people who intrude in the midst of ARR or MSV threads and talk about IR - Which I and many other HCIRF's also totally disapprove) and feel like adding 'IR is incomparable in mixing western and Indian classical' (and nothing disparaging has been stated about other MD's) or something to that effect.
  
  Now why would you take offense to that and go on record saying that IR fans do not listen to other MD songs.I fail to understand why you would start questioning - 'Just Curious, how many other MD songs have you listened to before'.
  
  Just like you have a bias to MSV, aren't others entitled to bias to their idol.
  
  Now please don't say that you are not biased to MSV - if that was the case you would not have started the whole string of arguments in this thread - You would have just in one single posting listed down the 10 and more new things that you think IR has done and said that these are the only 10 things I feel IR has done - instead of asking what do you know about other MD's and this thread wouldn't have grown to these many pages.
  
  Anyway what is it that you have achieved by starting an argument- Like pamaran has said you are making only IR fans more Hardcore.
  
  I have been observing TFM forum for quite sometime now though I never post and this is first thread I posted a bit. I respect your musical knowledge, but dont you think you are taking things too far this time. Even assuming IR fans always dispute and credit everything in the SKY to IR, dont you think that you are doing something similar here.
  
  It is ill fate that IR is stuck between MSV and ARR and poor IR Fans get blamed for all the arguments and disputes in this forum. Anyway this is my last posting. I am outta here.
  
  
• From: raaja_vetti (@ cache01.erlm.siemens.de) on: Fri Aug 27 06:47:02 EDT 1999
  
  Dear Srikanth,
  
  I have listened to the 'vaNakkam pala muRai sonnEn' and I hope I have got a very vague idea about "Brigas". Can you give me some more examples in this to make my "feel on brigas" more clear? Is there any similar fundae in "aayiram nilavE vaa.. Or aayiram nialvE vaa"? I feel something great in this which I couldnt explain..
  
  btw, though I've listened the 'vaNakkam pala muRai' song many times, [now another 15+ times], I must admit tht the brigas didnt create any new impact in me? May be Im a average listner or I havent understood the Brigas well Or Im just developed a "taste system" in which Brigas are not appreciated??
  
  btw, if my "feel" of Brigas are correct, I would like to claify that the interlude wandering and sudden transitions definitely different from the concpet of Birgas. Ofcourse its only my gut feeling and again Im a "kannaa-pinnaa" makku in the techinicalities of music. Im still really eager to know whether any such songs exists frm any other MDs as well. It pleases me to the maximum extent.
  
  Well.. now coming back to the thread, there seem to be lots of fights/disagreements/hard feelings in general..
  
  What I feel is, there are more than million techniques they can be used in a song, like, brigas, transitions, kamagaas, points, counter points ... I leave it to the experts! A technique appearing more enjoyment to one person may not even appeal another person. Each person is different and each person's expectation in a song is different. People develop a "taste' for themself in liking and disliking a song. Nothing wrong in it. But, no person can claim that his/her taste is the best one over other's taste!
  
  A person can only say that he doesnt get wht he wanted from a song! That doesnt mean that the song is very thin/flat/square/inverted triangle. Another person can say that the same song touches his soul. This also doesnt mean that its thick/curvy/arcy/and monotonicaly increasing! A song is a song, is a song and will remain a song!
  
  I like the flower Jasmine!! Yes! There could be million reasons why I like it. There is another person who loves Roses, and he also can have million reasons for that. The millon reasons need not be the same set for both!
  
  Just becos, I like Jasmine, I can say, just for the purpose of argument, Rose is bad/thin/the equation representing its curvy pedals are not canonoical etc! I can even challenge the Rose lover to list down 25 things by which the Rose can be proven to be best! Im sure this will stump my opponent. But the very fact remains as it is! A Rose is rose and a Jasmine is jasmine!
  
  This will not take us anywhere! In the name of discussing about MDs, we are actually arguing over our egos! We are really not discussing which MD is better, but underneath, we are trying to see, who gives up first in this argument! That seem to be the aim here.
  
  If we continue in this direction, finally we might end up fighting about: Whether Birgas are the best or counterpoints, in giving aural pleasure!
  
  This TFM forum thread has been helpful (atleast to me) in finding out persons having similar tastes and sharing our audio collections! It helped [atleast me] in finding few persons with similar taste and exchanging the songs we had enjoyed, so that I could really expand the list of songs which fits my taste. I pray, in the coming days, it will serve in the same direction for few more people, instead of forcing people to leave with hardfeelings.
  
  Music a subject to feel & enjoy! Not a matter to have a row over it!
  
  Good Wishes & Regards.
  
  
• From: lala..lala.. (@ mec-xckt-auth103.mecnet.com) on: Fri Aug 27 12:03:32 EDT 1999
  
  Hi,
  
  I dont know whether humming/chorus/'lala..lala' is also called 'Interlude'. If not,
  
  Can anyone elaborate on the chorus used so wonderfully in IR's songs.
  
  I dont want people to immediately bring up a few/handful of songs where humming is used by some MD(before IR's period) and say they have done this before.(I know for sure those songs would be their only best) I Personally think that one of IR's strongest point is using chorus.
  
  Thanks.
  
  

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