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P. Susheela Vs. Lata Mangeshkar

Topic started by Neels (@ ppp3-121.bom.vsnl.net.in) on Fri May 8 10:35:41 EDT 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

I strongly feel that in spite of ruling the South Indian Cinema for so many decades, Susheela hasn't got the recognition she deserves...
In fact Susheela and S Janaki did to South Indian Music what Lata and Asha did for Hindi films... and yet, they haven't got their dues..
Forget nation-wide recognition (Read: Hindi Film Industry), even the music companies are not doing anything about it.. HMV for instance in Hindi has over the years come out with so many combinations of the "Golden Oldies" like Lata sings for Madan Mohan, Lata with Kishore, with such ans such artist,,, that the list seems endless.
Is it because the "Southies" can not market themselves???
Is there anyone out there listening???

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Anand Mahadevan (@ freedum.proxy.lucent.com) on: Thu Jan 14 16:36:38 EST 1999
  
  srinath,
  With due respects to your views on MS,we should'nt be discussing MS per se in this thread.I just brought it up to elucidate Lata's overhyped image(Nightangle of India) which I feel MS carries to an extent.I did'nt attribute it to the individual but to the overall conception or misconception of the image by the janata.
  From a standpoint of artistic tolerance(to tolerate/appreciate your peers success),PS has a lot of tolerance as opposed to Lata.Talent wise, argument is subjective as both hail from a totally different school of music and culture.Its like comparing apples and oranges.
  For most folks in India ,India does'nt exist south of the vidhyas.Hence they might be right in attributing those rich encomiums to Lata, since they have imagined the southern boundary of India to be vindhya mountain ranges.
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ ss01.ny.us.ibm.com) on: Thu Jan 14 16:58:22 EST 1999
  
  Just to clarify my stance - I am an ardent IR-SPB-SJ fan. I completely missed out on MSV-TMS-PS - by virtue of being born a few years too late ! I just wasn't there, I'm sorry !!! LM is the most overrated artiste alongwith ARR, IMO (none too humble :)) But I must admit that they have both had their great moments. This judgement does not even consider other psuedo-performers like Deva, Sirpi, Annu Malik etc. And what's more, I only know too well the "myopic" attitude of the North Indians. Anything remotely good in NI is automatically termed BEST IN INDIA which *BURNS* me up like nothing else does #$%#@$^%@$# !!!
  
  
• From: Sriram Lakshman (@ ifmxlenx.na.informix.com) on: Thu Jan 14 17:48:58 EST 1999
  
  Srinath, just curious. You said that you missed out on the TMS/PS/MSV combo (inspite of being Tamil nadu bred). How could you have ever understood Lata as an artiste whose career started in '46 (atleast a good 6 years ahead of PS and MSV and she seldom sang for Southie movies ) and qualitywise ended in the late 70's (the same time MSV's era ended) ? After all, 33 years of sustained excellence is unparalelled esp. when you consider the MD's she worked with. Those compositions are not easy to sing.
  
  Furthermore, let us stick to PS and LM.
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.26.238) on: Thu Jan 14 18:37:16 EST 1999
  
  in terms of sheer voice, i would rate lata above PS. songs like 'rasik balma' from chori chori continue to boggle my mind still. lata sings continuously sings in a high pitch in this song.
  i personally feel that her melodies are immortal.
  as sriram has said before PS and SJ might have been made popular by MSV and IR. but lata has sung for various composers. her meldies with shankar-jaikishen are as good as those with madan mohan and so on.. also i felt that she had a pretty good ability to emote.
  
  but i too feel that the best from her was only till the late 70's.
  
  
• From: Anand Mahadevan (@ tnt01-abe-201.fast.net) on: Thu Jan 14 20:02:23 EST 1999
  
  Lata owes her melodies to the music directors and as far as "rasika balma" goes shankar jaikishen holds the fort.Excellent orchestration & great melody coupled with superb lyrics.It might be hypothetical to argue what if the same song was rendered by PS.A lot of factors have made Lata's songs(I am not sure how U can call it lata's songs when she was not involved in the creative process),well we can say Lata rendered songs to be such massive hits.
  Yes,she has a gifted voice but she's not the only one.Its just that by quirk of fate or by sheer unethical practises, she has managed to capture majority of the hits.
  Nobody takes away Lata's contribution but its highy ridiculous to put her alone in a pedstal.There are singers who could have done the same kind of work if given the oppertunity.
  A singer is bound by a composer.A composer is not bound by a singer.This vulnerability could have made Lata insecure and forced her to commit those alleged acts of peer destruction.
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ doorbell.poms.com) on: Thu Jan 14 20:07:40 EST 1999
  
  Sriram:
  Very true. But the issue is only with North Indians considering a faded, jaded Lata better than any South Indian singer. I refrained from posting in this thread earlier b'cos I knew equally little of PS and LM. Of course, I have listened to some select songs of both and I have not shied away from giving LM her due. Let me put it this way - I have had the opportunity to listen to some *contemporary* numbers of PS and LM, and guess what...I think LM is unbearable. PS is still melodious. Period. Now what burns me ? North Indians labelling every two-bit North Indian performer as the *Best in India*. Be it Annu Malik or a washed-out LM (once again, not a LM at her peak). Well as a compromise I would admit that ARR getting some recognition in North India is a good sign, but then again, I don't think too much of ARR either !!!
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.23.148) on: Thu Jan 14 23:20:38 EST 1999
  
  anand,
  extending u'r logic, i can say that there are hundereds of ilayaraajas waiting for a chance in TFM. who knows perhaps there are persons even more talented than IR who did'nt get a break. even prabhu deva has admitted once that there are definitely many very good dancers and he was lucky to get a break.so let us not discuss something which is purely hypothetical.
  
  when i say lata's voice was the best iam obviously comparing her voice with that of her other peers like asha bhonsle, samshad begum, geeta dutt etc. i don't say that there cannot be anyone with a better voice than lata's.
  its OK that her voice might have been god-given and she might not have had anything to do with the creative process. but the same holds true for other singers like SJ, PS etc!!! would we have admired better PS without MSV, SPB without IR's immortal numbers?
  
  what if IR was not there in the eighties and only TR, shankar-ganesh and chandrabose were there? all these things are hypothetical. to get down to the facts, to transform the creative process of the MD into something which is listenebale, enjoyable and cherishable it definitely requires some talent. lata has continued to hold the attention of the audience for 50 years.
  
  its not only the north indians, i know a lot of people, even many in my family, who are ardent fans of lata and rafi.
  
  
• From: karthi (@ lab6.theatrium.net) on: Fri Jan 15 00:00:03 EST 1999
  
  Vijay and Others,
  
  If you take into account the time span every artiste enjoys while at the helm of affairs and judge it correctly weighing so many factors that qualify meritorious singing, then I doubt if any artiste could have ever held the attention of the audience for 50 years. Genuinely, that's impossible. The same holds for Latha also.
  
  About her 50 years of singing, we never would have known about that if there had not been a great hoopla around that! She actually sang when was 13 that is to say she was born in 1929 and sang first in 1942 for a film in which I think she also acted. Then her actual break came only in 1948 when she started to sing professionally for films when she sang in "Bharsaath". Her actual big break came in 1949 with the mega hit "Aayegaa". I doubt if she was ever remembered in those years between 1942 and 1949. So, putting it, IMO, rightly, her career as a play-back singer actually started only in 1949! Well, as you've already said she was quite listenable only till the late 70's (I would say she was excellent in 1981 when she sang 'Tere Mere Beech Me') which should be 1979. Now, her career spans only 3 decades as a singer who could convince the people.
  
  Going by the same argument, PS started her career in 1953, while she became a box office hit in 1956 with 'Kanavane Kan Kanda Deivam' we can say her voice became mature only in the late 50's or 60's. If we assume it was 1959, then her ever haunting melody in her old age came in 1989 with 'Poo Pookkum Maasam' which was a mega hit which reinforced her quality singing. I don't remember any other excellent number by her after that. So, here PS also put in a similar 30 years of professional singing.
  
  Appa!!! I have done justice putting both of them at par in terms of their career-years as professional singers!
  
  I doubt if this debate will end...I used to feel Latha could captivate anyone with her loud, high pitched and expressing singing while to admire PS you need an intuitive listening to music.
  
  Again, friends I am not here to hurt any one's feelings because I know we all stand in the same plane. I think, Suresh has thoroughly mistaken me (sorry suresh), while Shan has come to my rescue throwing some light into what I meant through that seemingly offensive posting of mine. Thank you Shan.
  
  Like Anand Mahadevan rightly put it, both came from different musical backgrounds. They both were only excelling each other.
  
  Have you guys listened to the Hindi version of 'KaNNaa Karumai NiRa KaNNaa'? and the Tamil version of 'Naina Bharse'? I think these songs are apt enough to prove my last point.
  
  But still, to me PS' voice is the best because it stands first. It is better because it stands also second and it's good because it also follows to be the third.
  
  Thanks Guys.
  
  
• From: Anand Mahadevan (@ tnt01-abe-060.fast.net) on: Fri Jan 15 07:34:57 EST 1999
  
  vijay,
  I am not taking away credits from Lata.But my point was peer destruction.Could she have sustained competition? As I pointed out earlier,my grouse aginst her was the inability to accept peer talents and using her clout she made sure nobody entered the recording theatre.This does show her artistic psyche in poor light.An artist should be able to accept and appreciate genuine competition.The movie "saaz" might be an example.
  This is abhorent by its very thought and many a talented singers were, well to put it in chennai lingo "ammukified".I have not heard of IR trying to do that.
  
  
  
• From: Sriram Lakshman (@ ifmxlenx.na.informix.com) on: Fri Jan 15 10:44:25 EST 1999
  
  Srinath, I was just curious. Point taken.
  As I had mentioned in my previous postings, Lata was the first of her kind and it so happened that no MD in Hindi (except OP Nayyar) could ever imagine creating a song without her. Unfortunately, the situation grew to such an extent that she could make or break any MD's career. Remember she was senior or atleast attained popularity before most of the MDs did like SJ,Madan Mohan, Roshan, maybe even SDB. She was infact instrumental in destroying SJ's career when Raj Kapoor was told in no uncertain terms that he had to choose between Lata or SJ for Bobby. LP scored the music for Bobby. Her mentality ,thus, leaves a lot to be desired.
  
  
  

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