Topic started by naga (@ 209.47.143.226) on Mon Mar 18 15:22:53 EST 2002.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.
Even since ARR entered into the cine field in 1992 (Was Roja released in 1991 or 92?), 2 worse things have happenned:
1.He was the one who introduced the use of drum machine (samplers) just to be different from IR and other MDs at that time. He wanted to be different to stay in the field and so created songs with a heave influence of western instruments. Being a 'sound engineer' he managed to be successful and now everybody is following him and calling it the 'trend'. He replaced the 'beauty of orchestration' with this new tread.. No catchy tunes, not so great melodies but just rythm... that's the secret of success...and he knew that. Our youngsters fell for it bcos it was different for them. All of us know that majority of young boys and girls listen to western music just for the rythm and for the quality of sound. They can't even understand the meaning of song and of course they don't need to... infact most of the engilsh songs have no lyrical value... That's exactly what ARR wanted to do... why listen to english beats when I can reproduce the same in tamil movies ???! Right...and that's what he did.. very clever and for this he didn't need to have carnatic music knowledge.. He started violating all the ragas, mixing and matching.. did everything.. (ennavae adi ennavale - a good example of killing 'kedharam' -- funny thing is that unni krishnan got national award for that song)...
It's 10 years now and ARR is still in the industry..charging crores of rupees for each movie, made 100 times the money that IR, MSV have made in their career with genuine music...
Where are we going with this 'tread'...... all songs sound the same...Any song can fit into any movie and for any situation...
2. And the second worst thing that has happened is 'tamizh kolai'. After ARR, now anybody can sing.. no need to know the language. Just sing and ARR will adjust it while recording.. what a shame to 'tamizh mozhi'. ARR is the one who started it. Can anyone deny that? Before that singers had some respect. Just listen to SPB, N.Vasudevan, TMS for their 'tamizh ucharippu'. No wonder why MSV and IR kept on giving using them..
Well I do appreaciate that ARR introduced a lot of new singers but how many can speak 'tamizh'. Can ARR justify what he has done to TFM ?
MSV, KVM and IR composed music for the song. ARR composes song for the music and that's the difference. And that's why we can't listen to any new songs after few months... one bad song will replace another bad song..
If this trend goes for another few more years... 'tamizh mozhi' will find a place in the history...
These are some of the 'tamil kolai seidha padalgal'...
chikku bukky raile.. (ARR)
andha arabi kadaloram (ARR)
poovukku porandha nalu (praveen mani) -- only God can help
all songs in parthale paravasam (ARR)
and a lot more... I don't remember them all..
Can anyone add such songs here??
please note that I do like ARR for many good reasons but I cannot forgive him for the above two bad things he did, knowingly or unknowingly to the TFM...
Responses:
- Old responses
- From: arun_uk (@ 195.93.50.172)
on: Tue Mar 19 19:35:25 EST 2002
Irrespective of various " bad things"(courtesy Naga)......one's got to understand that ARR is immensely talented and 'innovative'(sorry about stealing this word from your previous thread Naaz). It is important to recognize and appreciate his achievement in TFM & beyond.
- From: arun_uk (@ 195.93.50.172)
on: Tue Mar 19 19:37:34 EST 2002
OOPS!
Sincere apologies for my triple post. My computer is playing up.
- From: AVR (@ 143.127.3.10)
on: Tue Mar 19 22:30:41 EST 2002
>>however commercial they may be)in what makes a "song," -- namely, singing and lyrics<<
Ah, you forgot that the composition is the very basis for a song. Its a composer who CREATES the tune. Singing comes much later. Many a time lyrics are written to suit a tune. But even otherwise tis a composer who CREATES. A singer merely executes and adds merit/value to it.
Anyway, ARR is a composer PAR EXCELLENCE. He has ushered in a new era in HFM/TFM. We should be proud of him. And then he did give superlative performers like sadhana sargham a great deal of beautiful songs in hindi and tamil.
- From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63)
on: Tue Mar 19 22:57:16 EST 2002
The composer (hence composition )is a given - the thread is dealing with a film music composer, right?
I was pointing out the other two components (of film songs): words, voice.
- From: AVR (@ 143.127.3.10)
on: Tue Mar 19 23:46:05 EST 2002
Naaz ...agreed, got ur point. Thanks.
- From: ROTFL (@ 203.106.70.72)
on: Wed Mar 20 07:18:37 EST 2002
tabla is our instrument. we invented it.
Oh yeah. Just as chapathi is our food. :)
Ada pongapa, neengalum ungal logicum.
- From: sushma (@ 203.200.28.228)
on: Wed Mar 20 08:57:19 EST 2002
Hi naga,,
I think the reason why india does not find any achievers in the international scene is people like you.ARR is a rare talent that one can find only once in a century.so instead of critisizing him can u tell me the 20 good things that have happened since ARR has taken tfm by storm.The first and the foremost is ,Tamil film music would not have reached even half way of what it is today and we would not have been discussing threads at all.
So one needs level headed thinking.regarding tamil kolai,give me a couple of days(as i am busy with work)and i will give u a perfect example of tamil kolai by IR.so think before u talk and last but not the least PLEASE CHANGE UR ATTITUDE.
BYE
sushma
- From: meenumKumar (@ 209.47.143.226)
on: Wed Mar 20 09:31:30 EST 2002
Hello, I am Kumar from South africa.
I just happenned to read this thread. Actually everybody seems to be missing the point that Naga had tried to make. I think he is very correct as far as tamil killing is concerned in TFM and I do agree with him that it all began after ARR's entry. As far as the western music influence in indian songs is concerned; it is for both good and bad and it's just a matter of openion.
- From: Aswathama (@ 204.160.32.13)
on: Wed Mar 20 10:13:26 EST 2002
ARR is a rare talent Pleaseeeeeee!!! he has a rare talent to xerox other peoples work.
- From: RAHMAN FAN (@ 212.138.47.17)
on: Wed Mar 20 10:15:23 EST 2002
RAJA FANS SHOULD NOT USE BUS OR CAR TO TRAVEL BUT BY BICYCLE IT IS SUFFICIENT.
IF SO WHAT U R SAYING RAHMAN HAS DID NONSENSE THEN RAJA AND LIKE YOU SHOULD TRAVEL BY BICYCLE. DO NOT USE BUS OR RAIL OR AIR. UNDERSTAND
STONE CULCUTURED FANS.
- From: RAHMAN FAN (@ 212.138.47.11)
on: Wed Mar 20 10:16:00 EST 2002
RAJA FANS SHOULD NOT USE BUS OR CAR TO TRAVEL BUT BY BICYCLE IT IS SUFFICIENT.
IF SO WHAT U R SAYING RAHMAN HAS DID NONSENSE THEN RAJA AND LIKE YOU SHOULD TRAVEL BY BICYCLE. DO NOT USE BUS OR RAIL OR AIR. UNDERSTAND
RAJA FANS ARE STONE CULTURED HUMAN KINDS.
- From: naga (@ 209.47.143.226)
on: Wed Mar 20 10:36:43 EST 2002
Hello Sushma
"I think the reason why india does not find any achievers in the international scene is people like you"
Remember ARR (and appache Indian etc etc..) became international achievers only bcos they are doing international music and not Indian music... RaviShankar got Grammy NOT by playing electric guitar and that's what I call as "Identity". We should not loose our identify to get internaltional fame.
And even if you take 200 years you won't find one song of IR, killing tamizh. Even if you find one, that would be after ARR's entry bcos of this so called 'trend'.
- From: desigan (@ 209.47.143.226)
on: Wed Mar 20 10:55:00 EST 2002
hello friends
PLEASE STOP THIS IR/ARR FIGHT...
I AM SICK AND TIRED OF SUCH THREADS GOING AROUND IN THE newtfmpage. IR IS GOOD IN HIS OWN WAY AND ARR IS ALSO IN OWN WAY SO WHY FIGHT?
STOP IT ONCE FOR ALL...
- From: NCR (@ 206.30.30.2)
on: Wed Mar 20 11:43:35 EST 2002
Better to Rename TFM Page as IR-ARR page. Well there may be one more argument that it has to be ARR-IR page.
There is a sanskrit proverb "Akasatpatitam toyam sagaram pratigachati". That means whatever drop that is coming from Sky reaches the Sea.
Similary what ever the thread, finally ends in IR-ARR fight. God save this TFM Page. I wonder the patience of few people who keep on telling the same about IR and ARR even others dont seem agree to them. Until either fans gets convinced/ agrees to other fans, this will continue. I am looking for that day to get a chance to read better topics like in the starting of TFM.
All IMO- NOM to anybody.
- From: sushhma (@ 203.195.202.1)
on: Wed Mar 20 12:58:16 EST 2002
Hi naga
GO TO HELL
- From: sushma (@ 203.195.202.1)
on: Wed Mar 20 13:01:15 EST 2002
naga,,
who said arr'smusic is not based on our tradition.accorsding to me he is the only music dir now to have some indian classical usage in his songs.donot critisize anybody just becoz u dont like them or u r jealous of them,
bye
sushma
- From: neruppu (@ 207.208.237.130)
on: Wed Mar 20 14:29:07 EST 2002
sushma,
jus wondering, how old are you?
well, Naga did make a point as for the loss of regional identity..if u have something to contend that, please come up with it. A statement like "only ARR has made use of indian classical" will be laughed away by anyone with even the rudimentary knowledge of music.
pls, dont come up with a "go to hell" statement for me now!!
- From: :-) (@ 128.107.253.44)
on: Thu Mar 21 03:43:01 EST 2002
neruppu,
I'm not sure how old is this sushma...but she definitely has the brain of a 2 yr old.
- From: clk (@ 203.199.121.201)
on: Thu Mar 21 04:37:03 EST 2002
what naga spoke is very correct. and what about rest of MDs, they are following the same.Heard recently music of film seshu(sethu remake - MD yuvan), singers sound so horrible.one more thing is that by giving a song to some like sukwinder,MDs contend to be creative. if the tune and instrumentation is creative why use such ugly voices which are quite unbearable.
- From: Sam (@ 132.235.18.15)
on: Thu Mar 21 08:49:35 EST 2002
"And even if you take 200 years you won't find one song of IR, killing tamizh. Even if you find one, that would be after ARR's entry bcos of this so called 'trend'"
Lemme fisrt say that I am not a tamilian, and I don understand tamil, so I really don care if it is the right pronunciation, or the wrong. And I will also add that I rever IR, as I do ARR, they are my inspirations, and I respect HJ,YSR,KR....But blaming ARR for all this is a bit far fetched.
ANybody including, established names like IR, YSR have their own right/freedom to choose or NOT to choose a singer. So why dont they go select the "right" singer? Whats stopping them? And as far as Naga says, when they have an option not to choose, but chose is because of ARR, cos he allegedly started of this so called trend. (NAga implies that IR never did anything wrong, until ARR comes along, then he makes a wrong becos of ARR)What happened to their identity then, if that is really true? (Naga talks about identity in the same posting).Are they not losing their identity if they are really following what ARR does/did?
By the way, If ravi shankar had won a grammy becos of guitar, then u wud tell me he is so great that he mastered foreign instrument right? Winning recognition is winning recognition irrespective of what instrument or what style u do. It has got nothing to do with losing ones identity. Kadrinath plays sax, does that make him a nondescript? Nadaka (www.nadaka.com) comes to India, and does guitar music in Indian style, does that mean he lost his identity? They have their own mark, and so does anyother genuine person. Why go that far? Ur and my idol, IR uses violins, oboes, horns, and other western instruments? Does that make him lose his identity? Now dont tell me that he has his own style in them, indianising them, cos then I wud tell u that even ARR does that. Or by the way, is the violin (as the one we use now) an inherent indian instrument?
P.S. hihi I heard that violin in ICM is tuned differently than the one in WCM, cud u please lemme know regarding that, and the tunings? Thanks.
- From: Raghu (@ 212.2.14.241)
on: Thu Mar 21 09:44:06 EST 2002
"Ever since ARR entered into the cine field; 2 bad things have happenned",the golden era of singers like SPB,KJY disappeared, & came singers from hospital with a flue/Cold/ infections, like Hariharan, Udit, Srtinivas, Shanker, SUkvindher, ..., ARR is purely to blame for this nonsense!
List all pages of this thread
Post comments
Forums: Current Topics - Ilayaraja Albums - A.R. Rahman Albums - TFM Oldies - Fun & Games
Ilaiyaraja: Releases - News - Share Music - AR Rahman: Releases - News - AOTW - Tweets -
Discussions: MSV - YSR - GVP - Song Requests - Song stats - Raga of songs - Copying - Tweets
Database: Main - Singers - Music Director's - Lyricists Fun: PP - EKB - Relay - Satires - Quiz