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Kannadhaasan Vs. Vairamuthu TFM Symposium Topic 1: Iyarkai Varnanai

Topic started by Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on Mon Jul 6 13:36:50 EDT 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

In comparing Kannadhaasan and Vairamuthu objectively, why don't we all prove to ourselves that we don't need to take sides with a poet and only take sides with good poetry? I can come up with enough examples for both poets and I'm sure many others can too. Let's consider this a tiny saevai for TFM lyrics. I will gladly set forth the categories that we can judge the two poets by and we can all go to work. If anything I hope this exercise will make one diehard fan of Kannadhaasan appreciate VM and vice versa.
Here are the categories to judge both poets by giving examples of lyrics they wrote for TFM:
1)Iyarkai Varnanai
2)Kaadhal Paadalgal
3)Thaththuva Paadalgal
4)Vaarthai Prayoagam
5)Nagaichchuvai Paadalgal
6)Samudhaaya Seerthirutha / Puratchi Paadalgal
7)Vingyaana/Naveena Karuthoottum Paadalgal
8)Ilakkiya Moolam Ulla Paadalgal
9)Kadhaikku Porundhiya Paadalgal(situational songs)
10)Kavidhai Milekarkal (Poetic Milestones that the poets will be remembered by!)

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: biased_paiyan (@ bones.deneb.com) on: Wed Jul 8 02:10:56 EDT 1998
  
  Few more for KANNADASAN...
  
  In "pazani" 4 brothers working in the fields
  enjoying their work....
  
  Pachai vaNNa sElai katti muththam sindhum nellammA
  paruvam koNda peNNai pOlE nANam enna sollammA
  aRuvadai kAlam undhan thirUmaNa nALammA
  
  In "SavAlE samALi" city girl Jay coming to village
  and enjoying the nature....
  
  situk kuruvikenna kattuppAdu!!
  thenRalE unakethu sontha veedu ?
  
  marathil padarum kodiyE - unnai
  vithaithavarA ingu padarach sonnAr !!
  
  maNNil vaLaiyum nadhiyE - unnai
  padaithavarA ingu pAyach sonnAr !!!
  
  There is one more similar Jay song in Sumathi en Sundari
  Or Aiyiram.....
  has some varNanai about nature ....maRanthiruchu ???
  something like...
  
  iLayamagaL mEninai iYarkai thAlAttA
  
  UnbiasedA pArththA VM kooda nallAthAn ezuthi
  irukkArnu theriyuthu - BUT romba KASTAMA irukkE!!!
  
  Is the song from "naNdu"
  
  aLLith thantha boomi annai allavA
  sollith thantha vAnam thanthai allavA
  
  by KANNADASAN ???
  
  
  
  
  
• From: S Srinivasan (@ m37.chn.vsnl.net.in) on: Wed Jul 8 05:26:01 EDT 1998
  
  Hi,
  This is my first posting. Sitting in Madras, it is wonderful to see the active discussions. Reminds me of the times when a motley group of friends / cousins, etc sit on our terrace and dissect TFM for hours on end. Hope to post regularly.
  
  One thing that strikes me in this Kannadasan vs Vairamuthu debates is the tone of the composition in general. Seems to me that within each of these guys there is a lyricist and a poet. In VM, the poet gets the better of the lyricist - those who have read Vairamuthu's early poetry (long before he became a film lyricist) would be able to recognise that several of his Chinna Chinna Aasai stuff have come from there. In the case of Kannadasan, the lyricist overruled the poet since his songs seem to be tailored in their presentation. Which is why his songs are easier on the ear. One only has to look at K's non-film output on various occasions (especially in his mag Kannadasan) and one is immediately struck by the change in the "weight" of the composition. VM, being a very intelligent person, has the ability to overcome this but whether he will is a different question altogether.
  
  I like the idea of their being studied under some chosen heads.
  
  Eager to see more.
  
  Keep up the good work, folks.
  
  
• From: Kanchana (@ spider-ti084.proxy.aol.com) on: Wed Jul 8 07:06:37 EDT 1998
  
  Bones:
  kavalaipadaadheenga. I personally find that I unconsciously "shift gears", take on a different mindset and listen for different things when I go from a kaNNadhAsan to a vairamuththu product, since their focus, styles and thamizh itself are so very different as I mentioned much much earlier.
  
  Adding to Srinivasan's comment:
  With some exceptions, kaNNadhAsan's songs were written as free verses constrained only by the movie situation and some interactive input from the MDs on meter etc. VM did/does face the reality of having to squeeze some thoughts and feelings into an already set tune. Without digressing into "pAttukku mettA, mettukku pAttA" issues or MD discussions, I believe that is partly the reason for the "weight" difference between VM's substantive non-TFM works versus TFM kavidhaigaL, along with the "commercial factor" dictated by the director.
  
  
• From: Pagalavan (@ bbn-cache-3.cisco.com) on: Wed Jul 8 12:57:54 EDT 1998
  
  Bones
  
  aLLith thantha vAnam is by Madhukkoor Kannan
  
  
• From: Pagalavan (@ bbn-cache-3.cisco.com) on: Wed Jul 8 15:21:03 EDT 1998
  
  Udhaya
  
  Thanks for mentioning about iLam panith thuLir vizhum nEram. Likewise, there is another song thAgam edukkuRa nEram (is it from ArAdhanai too?) having some good lines about nature (I vaguely remember).
  
  Another good idaich cherugal by VM is in sevvanthip pOOkkaLil seytha vEEdu..veNpanchu mEgamE kOlam pOdu from mellap pEsungaL where he adds:
  vAnavillil amaippOm thOraNam
  vaNdu vanthu isaikkum nAyanam..
  
  More later
  
  
• From: Prakash Balakrishnan (@ gate3.ca.us.ibm.com) on: Wed Jul 8 15:44:20 EDT 1998
  
  Kanchana,
  Minsara Kanavu pattu paththi solli irukkEEnga...
  adhoda pallavi (I mean aramba varigaL ennaku indha SaraNam pallavi idhu paththi sariya theriyadhu.... hi, hi,,,) evvaLavu arpudhamanadhu vittutEEnglE!!!!
  
  poo pookkum Osai adhai kettkathan aasai
  pulviruyum Osai adhai kettkathan aasai
  patchigaLin koo, koo
  pootchigaLin ring, ring
  sangeetham sollitharmE chinna pENNE.....
  
  What about KaNNadhasan's AvargaL song
  kattrukkenna veli?
  kadalukenna moodi?
  gangai veLLam sangu kuLLe adangi vidadhu
  mangai nenjam thoongum podhu....
  
  and from aaVaL oru thodar kathai...
  kaNNukkUL enna uNdu kaNkaLthan ariyum
  kallukuL Iram uNdu kaNgaaLa ariyum?....
  
  more to come..
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Wed Jul 8 15:47:41 EDT 1998
  
  Pagalavan,
  "thaagam edukkura neram" is from "Enakkaaga Kaathiru". Thanks for bringing that song to my attention. Here are the relevant lyrics from that song that I remember:
  
  thaagam edukkura neram
  vaasal varuguthu megam
  madhumazhai pozhiyuma
  malarvanam nanaiyuma
  ini pon ezhil pookkal
  sindhum magarandham
  
  
  In the same movie there's another song by VM, "pani mazhai vizhum"
  Here's the nature description from that song:
  
  pani mazhai vizhum
  paruvath thuyil aezhum
  sillendra kaatraada
  saerndhu manam thaanaada
  kanavugalin oorgoalamae
  
  
  
• From: Prakash Balakrishnan (@ gate4.ca.us.ibm.com) on: Wed Jul 8 15:57:34 EDT 1998
  
  Kanchana.,
  I didn't read properly your post.. first time
  I read your post again. You mentioned about poo pookkum oosai.. Thappa N-eenga solla vittutteenganu sollitutEn sorry.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• From: Kanchana (@ spider-te014.proxy.aol.com) on: Wed Jul 8 17:06:33 EDT 1998
  
  Prakash:
  paravAyillai-ppA! Not to worry! :-)
  
  See you all later!!
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Wed Jul 8 19:55:17 EDT 1998
  
  Guys, I think we have a respectable show from both poets for topic 1 in this symposium. I would like to cover all ten topics before people get tired of this project and let their interest wane. So, let's move on to topic 2. We can always add to any topic as and when we uncover stuff. What do you guys think? Also, can we cut and paste from previous threads in the Archives since these discussions have been covered in parts before? Comments please.
  
  
• From: Sathiya Keerthi (@ panorama.nus.edu.sg) on: Wed Jul 8 20:20:13 EDT 1998
  
  Yesterday I was listening to the following song, from
  the movie, 'muLLum malarum'...
  
  adi peNNE, ponnoonjal aadum iLamai
  vaNNangaL thOndrum iyaRkai
  
  The song is penned by Kannadhasan. paadal
  muzhuvadhum kavinjar iyaRkaiyai varNiththuLLaar
  enbadhu therigiRadhu. aanaal... paadalaip paadiya
  Jency Thamizhai kolai seydhu "keech-keech" endru
  kaththiyadhaal paadal varigaL enna endru ennaal
  sariyaaga kaNdupidikka mudiyalai. If someone
  knows the full lyrics please post. (I really wonder
  why Ilayaraja used Jency for this song!)
  
  For the movie, 'annai oru aalayam', Kannadhasan
  wrote the following song...
  
  nadhiyOram naaNal ondru naaNam koNdu
  naattiyam aadudhu mella
  naanandha aanandham en solla
  
  Does anyone know the full lyrics for this song?
  
  Is the song,
  
  ponnaaram poovaaram
  kaNNOram shringaaram
  
  by Kannadhasan? (Movie: Pagalil oru iravu) If so
  does anyone know the full lyrics?
  
  Udhaya:
  
  It looks like we are exhausted in this topic. I feel
  it's time for you to start a new topic; a separate
  thread for that is better since, if anyone has
  more material about 'iyaRkai' they can continue
  to post here. Also, before we begin a new topic,
  it would be very nice if some overall comments
  about this 'iyaRkai' topic are made by the participants.
  You can finally add some closing comments.
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Wed Jul 8 20:51:14 EDT 1998
  
  SK, Ponnaaram poovaaram was indeed by Kannadhasan but it
  is more suitable for the love songs collection as the nature
  imagery is scarce in it. "Nadhiyoaram" has some great varnanai
  though:
  
  thaeyilai thoattam
  nee devadhaiyattam
  minnuvathenna nenjai alluvathenna
  
  pani thoongum pasum pullae
  minnuthu unnaattam nalla muthirai ponnattam
  . . .
  vennira maegam
  vaan thottilaivittu
  oaduvathenna malaiyai mooduvathenna
  
  mugilthano kuzhalthano
  sandhana kaadirukku thaen sindhidum poovirukku
  
  
  Why don't we hold off on giving summations for each topic
  until we cover the bases on all ten topics of the symposium?
  This way we get an idea of what we have covered and can easily
  go back and close each topic with a better overall view. Also,
  this will enable others to post more songs as examples to enrich
  each individual topic within this project. Let me know what you
  guys think.
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Wed Jul 8 21:02:03 EDT 1998
  
  Here's another one of VM's nature oriented analogy from the movie "Iruvar":
  
  poo kodiyin punnagai alai nadhiyin punnagai
  mazhai mugilin punnagai nee kaadhalin punnagai
  andhap pournami enbadhu oru maadhaththin punnagai
  
  
  

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