Home   Forum   Wiki   Notes   Register   FAQ   Sitemap   About Us   Contact Us  

Patti Mandram III, "Is Vairamuthu a chauvenist? Yes or No, show evidence from TFM".

Topic started by Udhaya (@ host16.globalcenter.net) on Sat Jun 20 14:02:54 EDT 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

This topic is derived from the exciting debate that began in the "Why no female MDs?" thread. Mano and I say yes to the Patti Mandram question while Ramki came out with a No response and gave more examples to back up his claim. The key is to show evidence from TFM as facts for your contention.

---

Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Thu Jun 25 14:15:38 EDT 1998
  
  
  closing italics
  
  
• From: Ramki (@ dante.cs.wmich.edu) on: Fri Jun 26 18:42:42 EDT 1998
  
  
  
  Pennai deivamaaga madhithu pala paadalgal thandhullaar kaviarasu Vmuthu.
  
  'en deivamae nee pennalla'(nilavondru kanden)
  'theril vandha deivamae'(engae en jeevanae)
  'nee ennudan irukkumpodhu deivam edharkku'(enadhu raagam)
  
  
  Vasanthi padathil our paadalil oru kanavan than manaivikku tharum mariyadhaiyai miga azhagaaga unarthugiraar..
  
  poomalaiye unnai manappen
  un pudhuselai kasangaamal anaippen
  Maharani pol unnai madhippen
  un madiyodu en jeevan mudippen
  ******************************
  en meniyil rendu thuligal vizhum
  adhu podhume jeevan amaidhi kollum'
  **********************************
  
  arpudhamaana varigal..than manaiviyin kaaneril
  janma saaabalyam adaiyum oru kanavanin kavidhai
  
  'madi meedhu marithen maru janmam koduthai'(kalaivaaniye)
  
  mundhina varigalil manaiviyin madiyil irakka thudikkum kanavan.Ingo manaiviyin madiyil marithum
  pudhu jenmam adaiyum aadavan.
  
  Aanukku mudhalum mudivum pennae endru sollamal sollavillaiya???
  
  kaadhaliyai thaiyaaga ninaikkum kadhalargalum ivar paadalgalil undu
  
  'kaamam ondrae en kaadhal alla
  kandene unnai thaiyaaga'(oru jeevan)
  
  kaadhalikku panividai seiyum kaadhalan
  
  'vennilavae unnai thoonga vaikka un viralukku sodukkedupen'
  varuda varum poongatraiyellaam konjam vadikatti anuppivaippen'(Pollutionaal kettupoivitta kaatrai
  kaadhaalan andha pollutionellaam vadikatti.suthamaana kaatrai kaadhalikku anuppugiraar)
  
  Penn sudhandhirathai patri enne solgiraar endru parpom..
  
  'ini acham acham illai oru adimai ennam illai nam kaalam ingae koodi pochu kanner michamillai'
  
  nangae varigalil pengalin munnetram ,sudhandhiram ponravatrai adakkivittaar..
  
  'amma azhagu kannamma idhu namma boomi endru azhuthi sollamma'
  
  idhu pengalin boomi , avargalin aatchiye ingu nadakkiradhu engiraar
  
  sila aangalin adimai thanathaal sorndhu poi nirkkum pennai parthu solgiraar
  
  'hey unnai vetri kolvadhu dhaan saadhanai
  nee uyarvu kolla varuvadhu dhan sodhanai
  desiya virundhugal vaangalam un vegathai katti vai
  aasiya virundhugal vaangalam sila aanaigal ittu vai'(Aswini)
  
  
  Ivvalavu parandha sindhaiyodu ezhudhupavarai paatra thootruvadhu??adhu nyamae illai
  
  
  
  
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Fri Jun 26 19:26:14 EDT 1998
  
  Ramki, I hope the nayyaandi in my posting didn't upset your sensibility, thootruvadhu en kuRikkoal alla. Konjam migaiyaaga irundhirundhaal mannikkavum. KadavuLai vazhipadubavargal avanae ivanae endru solvathillayaa andha sudhandhiram poal enadhu Aesum sudhandhirathai eduthukkoLLungaL. Adharkaaga enakku VM kadavuLA endru kaetkAthErgaL, nichayamAga illai.
  
  manaiviyai adippavan kooda
  avvapozhuthu avaLai anaippaan
  andha aaruthalai mattumae
  ninaithukkondaal eppadi
  gnyaayamaagum?
  
  iravil kaakkaiyin niram
  maRaindhaal adhu
  sila naerangaLil
  kaRuppu illai endru aagi
  vidumaa?
  
  uNmaiyaana thanmaiTHANE
  ingu vaadham?
  
  
  
  
  
  
• From: Ramki (@ pm062-16.spindler.wmich.edu) on: Sat Jun 27 00:48:15 EDT 1998
  
  Udhaya kandippaaga naan ungalai thappaga eduthakkali..ungalukkum adhum theriyumnnu ninaikkiren:))Pattimandrathil seendalgal illaiendraal suvai illaiye..be feel to naiyandify me:)
  
  
• From: Ramki (@ pm062-16.spindler.wmich.edu) on: Sat Jun 27 00:48:31 EDT 1998
  
  Udhaya kandippaaga naan ungalai thappaga eduthakkali..ungalukkum adhum theriyumnnu ninaikkiren:))Pattimandrathil seendalgal illaiendraal suvai illaiye. feel free to naiyandify me:)
  
  
• From: Mano (@ wheel124.watstar.uwaterloo.ca) on: Sun Jun 28 21:33:04 EDT 1998
  
  In the song, 'Kathu Vanthu Namba Pakkam..' (movie ..?)
  VM says that 'unga katchi veru Enga Katchi Veru'. He thinks that women are not same as men.
  
  Also, VM reports that women is the cause for both success and failure of men. He shows evidence by telling some mystical stories. In the song 'Aaavathum Pennalay..' (Thirumathy Oru Vegumathi'
  Namma Indiran Chandiran Rendu Payalkalum Kettathum Pennalay
  
  In 'Manithan Manithan...' (Manithan) VM says.
  Than Maanam Kakkavum Pen Maanam Kakkavum Thudipavan Evanada, Avaney manithan. VM says that Manithan should save women. Why???
  
  Cheers
  Mano
  
  
• From: Shun (@ 170-140-209.ipt.aol.com) on: Sun Jun 28 22:12:58 EDT 1998
  
  VM's lyrics in Pudhumai penn
  Adukkalai thudaippathum Padukkayay virippathum
  Athu pennin thozhil illaye.
  sarithiram padaikkavum, tharitharam thudaikavum
  varuvathil pizhai illaye....
  
  Probably, he wrote the manithan song, keeping Rajini in mind(?!) and wrote the song to satisfy his followers.
  
  
• From: Ramki (@ pm062-09.spindler.wmich.edu) on: Sun Jun 28 23:39:26 EDT 1998
  
  Mano 'manidhan'doesnt mean he is referring to Men alone. Manidhan is a common word that can be used either for men or women. As far as i know there isnt a word called 'manidhi'.
  
  
  
• From: Kanchana (@ spider-ti082.proxy.aol.com) on: Mon Jun 29 01:09:47 EDT 1998
  
  This response has two parts to it:
  1. exploring some non-chauvinistic TFM by VM just as a refreshing change since they are so few & far in between in general;
  2. my thoughts on this overall issue.
  
  PART I: Progressive thinking on Women's Issues -- A Rare Luxury for VM & Any TFM Lyricist
  
  VM bemoans the double standards where women are upheld as mother-goddess in theory and second-class citizen in practice, in "anbuLLa malarE":
  dheivam peNNendRu sonnArE
  ellAm siththAndhamA?
  peNNaik kaNNeeril neerAttith
  theruvil vittArammA
  ....
  vAzhum samudhAyam pudhu
  vAzhvaith tharumA?
  (BTW, this appears to be inspired by a kaNNadhAsan verse in "rANi samyukthA")
  
  He decries the hypocricy of the "kaNNagi factor" for women in a society which is tolerant of men treating women as sex objects for the most part, in "mEgam kaRuththirukku":
  kaNNagaiyai andRu azha vaiththAr--adi
  adhaRkup piRagE silai vaiththAr
  pagalil peNNaith thozha vaiththAr
  iravil adhaRkOr vilai vaiththAr
  
  peNgaL meedhuthAn thappirukku--adi
  ANgaLukkengE kaRpirukku?
  
  peNkulam mattum kaRpaik kAkkattum ingE
  varach chollu peNNE andha vaLLuvan enge?
  
  He squarely places the accountability for this entire mess where it belongs--centuries of suppression and oppression of women in a male-dominated world, in "perumai":
  AyiramAyiram ANdugaLAi idhu
  ANgaLin rAjjiyamA?
  kaNgaLil neerkkudam Endhiya mangaiyar
  kaNdadhu poojjiyamA?
  ....
  Adhi mudhal pala kOdugaL pOttadhu
  Adavar sattamadi!
  
  He recognizes that women are second-class citizens while being firmly optimistic about a change in Mr. Bharat:
  peNgaL yArum ingu
  peNgaL illai--avar
  echchil thuppum oru kiNNam
  endRuthAnE un eNNam?
  
  kAlam mARiyadhu kAtchi mARiyadhu
  peNmai ALuvadhu thiNNam
  seedhai sAgavillai innum
  
  His very definition of a "real man" rests on how a man treats a woman in "Manidhan":
  Ezhaip peNNin sElai thottu izhuppavan manidhanA?
  iravil mattum thAli katta ninaippavan manidhanA?
  
  kAdhal endRa pErai solli nadippavan manidhanA?
  kaRpai mattum currency note-il kaRappavan manidhanA?
  
  thanmAnam kAkkavum peNmAnam kAkkavum
  ninaippavan evanadA avanE manidhan
  
  He exhorts women to bring about a revolution to change the rules of the game, and subtly dares to ridicule his own hero Bharadhi's "kummiyadi" verse in "perumai":
  Adhi mudhal pala kOdugaL pOttadhu
  Adavar sattamadi
  kummi adiththoru ammi nagarvadhu
  sAththiyam illaiyadi
  
  kELvigaL kEtpadhu kAla mAtRangaLE!
  pOridum peNgaLE Ettai mAtRungaLE!
  aRivuLLa ANgaLE nAttai mAtRungaLE! **
  (** my addition to VM's verse which calls for only women to rebel)
  
  He echoes this revolution idea in a students' fun song in "kAdhalan":
  puratchigaL Edhum seyyAmal
  peNNukku nanmaigaL Edhum viLayAdhu
  kaNNagi silaithAn inguNdu
  seedhaikku thaniyAi silai Edhu?
  
  He presents the very healthy idea of equality and complementarity between the genders and looks for a new order with the generational change in "paruvarAgam":
  kaNgaL illai endRu sonnAl kAviyam ingu illai
  peNgaL illai endRAl ANgaL ingu illai
  
  Osai illai endRAl bAshaigaL ingu illai
  ANgaL illai endRAl peNgaL ingu illai
  
  samaththuvam peruga iLaignargaL ezhuga
  pazhaiyadhu azhiga pudhu yugam varuga
  poomazhai pozhiga thalaimuRai vaLarattumE
  
  Presenting such progressive and liberated TFM verses with a strong punch to them made me feel very very good. But all good times have to come to an end, and facts have to be faced.......
  
  What is the number of non-chauvinistic songs that VM or any lyricist CAN realistically write in TFM as a % of total songs? Less than 50% is my guess--the content, mood, tone of a song is determined by the situation as outlined by the director which in turn is influenced by the audience tastes and the need to differentiate versus competing media such as satellite TV/Hollywood movies etc., is it not?
  Moving on to my conclusion very similar to Bharat's and PG's in the next section......
  
  PART II: The Reality
  The verses which follow use titles of VM's books, within quotes, just to make the presentation interesting, hopefully :-)
  
  "kELvigaLAl oru vELvi"
  nadakkiRadhu ingE
  "Vadugapatti mudhal Volga varai"
  vandha vairamuththu--AN
  varkka veRiyarA illayA?
  
  "idhanAl sagalamAnavarrgaLukkum"
  therivippadhu ennavendRAl
  ANgaL "nEtRu pOtta kOlam"
  veLLith thirai ulagil
  innum azhiyavillai!
  
  "thiruththi ezhudhiya theerpugaL"
  thiraip peNgaLukku innumillai
  oru "pudhiya dhEseeya geedham"
  piRakkavum illai--paNa
  pErAsai piriyavum illai!
  
  "pazhaya panai OaigaL" kooRum
  AN Adhikkam kuRaindhu
  pudhiya "sigarangaLai nOkki"
  veN siRagadiththu AN-peN
  kalaiyulagil paRakkavum illai!
  
  "ellA nadhiyinilum en Odam" ena
  peNNurimai thiraiyinil illaiyenil
  "kavirAjan kadhai" sonna [kavirAjan=Bharadhi]
  vairamuththuvum piRa kavignarum
  pEsum puratchi ellAm
  "mounaththin sapthangaLE"!!
  
  thAikkulaththaith thArai vArththa
  thannalaththOr palar irukka
  than thozhil pArkkum
  vairamuthuvai vaivadhanAl
  viLaigindRa payan enna?
  
  peNNizhivai paNam Akkum
  periyOr palar irukka
  pizhaikka vandha VM mattumE
  pizhai seidhAr enbadhanAl
  peRugindRa payan enna?
  
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Mon Jun 29 15:02:48 EDT 1998
  
  oruvanai mattumae
  oayaamal yesuvathu yaen
  endru kaetpavargalukku
  kadamaippattavanin
  kaditham
  
  aathma thrippthikku
  prasura kavidhai
  avasara panathirkku
  aabaasak kavidhai
  endru naveena moses pol
  kavik kadalai pirithu
  kondavanai
  nondhu enna payan
  endru kaetkireergal
  
  thamizh thaiyai
  gangai ena thalayil
  kondu
  ilam ullangalidam
  selvaakkai
  nenjil kondu
  virakamum virasamum oru
  ezhuthil pirindhirukkum
  idaiveliyai eedukattum
  ennatra paniyil irangiya
  iru kal kavingyanai enna solla
  
  seerthirutha changai
  muzhangiyavanin
  seerthiruttha yaeni
  indru suyanalath
  thoni aanadhai enna solla
  
  vasandha kadhirkalin vidiyalai
  vivarithavanin
  varigal indru
  vaigaiyai vattrivittadhin
  veezhchiyai enna solla
  
  thaevai pattal
  thaai endrum
  thaagam vandhaal kani
  endrum
  samayam vandhaal sami
  endrum
  sumayaik kandaal sei
  endrum
  pennin thanmayai
  pirithu vaguthu
  ilaykku thagunthapadi
  kalayai parimaarum
  vilaimaganai
  veeranendraa azhaippathu?
  
  idhanaal enna
  endru irundhavargal
  thanae naam
  ippadithaanae theyilai
  virkavandhavanai
  thaimannirkae
  vilangidavaithoam
  thamizhthaaikkum
  idhae kadhithaana?
  
  vairamuthu
  indru uyara parakkum
  parundhu
  avanai yaesaamal
  pudhithai siragedukkum oorkuruvigalaiya
  yaesattum naan?
  vairmuthu
  thoindhu varum thamizhukku
  marundhu kodukkum nilayil
  irukkiraan
  
  thamizh paal kuditthu
  valarndhavan
  thaaipaalilae visham
  kalappathu gnyaayama?
  
  avanadhu karpanaiyin
  valam therindhadhaal
  en thamizh maarthatti
  kaetkiraen gnyaayam
  
  uvamaikku vendumaanaal
  poi azhagaagum
  pennai paadugaiyil
  meithaan azhagu
  
  thamizh thaikku
  thalaivaarum poadhu
  koana vaagai
  eduthaal avalukkum
  perumai illai
  unakkum perumai illai
  vairamuthae
  
  vithaikaetra padi
  aaeri iranga nee
  vilaivaasiya?
  vaadikkayaalunukku
  aetrapadi
  maatrikkolla
  thamizh enna
  vilai vaesiyaa?
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  

---

List all pages of this thread

Post comments