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Musical Merits &Demerits of IR and ARR [Only for fans, not fanatics!]

Topic started by V (@ 147.129.99.180) on Thu Jul 17 16:26:37 EDT 2003.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

To bring our healthy/unhealthy discussion on music merits and demeits of IRR and ARR out of the Thangar Bacchaan thread I starting this thread so that it would be more appropriate.

I expect people who post here to be fans and not typical fanatics. Expecially the young ARR fans and the "Theevira" Raja fans

Thanks!

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Paran (@ 203.123.16.153) on: Mon Jul 21 06:18:57 EDT 2003
  
  Dear Ambleen,
  first of all...thanks for admitting that u r the "gentleman" i referred...
  Well, i know...
  u have deeper music appreciation, u did PhD in Maths...u r always great..
  ok fine...no point arguing anymore...
  (i know..u gonna reply to this post as "paran have nothing to say....may be indecently_...)
  
  anyway, anyhow.....I love what I love....
  i hate when ppl hate what others love more that loving what they love....
  (Now, this is hardcore english for u...coz PROBABILITY is a hardcore maths (for u)..kah kah kah..we studied in Secondary 1 my friend)....
  
  ANd Dear Ramesh,
  Not bad..u haev a profession already....keep it up..
  we need you...
  
  
• From: Curious Kannusamy (@ 161.114.64.71) on: Mon Jul 21 07:18:34 EDT 2003
  
  kah kah kah...
  >>> Are u a crow, Paran?
  ;-)
  
  
• From: Paran (@ 203.123.16.153) on: Mon Jul 21 07:31:15 EDT 2003
  
  Ithe innore mundam..
  
  "Kah kah, Kih Kih, Kui Kui, Bwak Bwak, Ha ha, he he, hi hi....etc"
  are meaningless words used in comics to show that somebody is laughing....
  
  
• From: Paran (@ 203.123.16.153) on: Mon Jul 21 07:31:32 EDT 2003
  
  Ade Saami
  
  "Kah kah, Kih Kih, Kui Kui, Bwak Bwak, Ha ha, he he, hi hi....etc"
  are meaningless words used in comics to show that somebody is laughing....
  
  :)
  
  
• From: Paran (@ 203.123.16.153) on: Mon Jul 21 08:07:27 EDT 2003
  
  Sorry Kannusamy..
  
  didn't see your ";-)"..first...
  so ignore my first posting..
  
  
• From: Vatsa (@ 160.83.32.14) on: Mon Jul 21 08:45:18 EDT 2003
  
  Hi All,
  
  I would request you guys to do these:
  
  1. Please drop these indecent words ( chootiye and others). Its clearly said, this is for fans not fanatics.
  
  2. Just analyze things logically and give your comment with some reason instead of swearing (it may be proved wrong, it just good decent response that matters). Also, there are lot of nice postings here which get marred by posting with abusive language (kaadhil thaen vandhu payuthu).
  
  3. Please dont use superlatives like (ARR is the greatest or IR is the greatest). This is about the merits and demerits.
  
  4. My personal opinion - Indian national awards are biased. Otherwise, you wont see MGR getting a national award for Rikshakaran (one of the worst movies and acting of MGR, its because MGR supported Indira Gandhi then), whereas Sivaji did not get even one award (he deserved atleast 6). The jurors may be okay now or may not be. Going by track record (even recent past) it has not done its job. So any judgement cannot be based on this. Also, if someone says IR made music just for South Indians thats why he did not get awards, then there is no point in considering them as indian awards as most hindi MDs make music for Hindi audience and get these awards. Its the music that matters not the region. I feel south indian art is not given the recognition it deserves. Maybe all because of politics and strong regional bias.
  
  Vatsa
  
  
• From: Musio (@ 210.210.48.148) on: Mon Jul 21 09:55:51 EDT 2003
  
  IR Vs ARR
  
  1. IR Makes a Great Tune look Simple - Eg. 'Kaadhal Oviyum', 'Keeravani', 'Aanadha Raagam'.
  ARR Makes a Simple Tune look Great - Eg. 'Akkaranu Neegan', 'Oruvan Oruvan Mudalali'.
  
  Note: This is by adding Extra Bass, Compterized Rhythms, DTS/DTX Mix, which attracts everyone instanty and makes their foot tap. This is ARR's Merit and he wins over IR. But at the same time Western Oriented Songs will not linger long in your memory. You cannot hum these songs even in your bathroom, without those extra fittings. The Music will gradually fade away over the years. This is his Demerit. I think this is where IR wins over ARR.
  
  
  
• From: Music4ever (@ 165.121.131.83) on: Mon Jul 21 10:30:37 EDT 2003
  
  ARR has composed wonderful songs like
  1) NarumugaiyE narumugaiyE
  2) En veetu thottathil
  3) Kannamoochi yenada
  4) Nenjil jil jil jil jil
  5) Vellai pookaL
  6) Uyire uyire
  
  and many more. So it would be silly not to give due credit to his achievements and instead just constantly quibble over trivialities. What's wrong with us tamilians?
  
  IR is a legend. So are MSV and KVM, IMO. ARR may not match up with these greats but still he is someone who has delivered for ten long years and that should count for something. Innovation counts and ARR has come up with plenty of that.
  
  
• From: MusicIsLife (@ 170.146.91.6) on: Mon Jul 21 11:11:15 EDT 2003
  
  Musio,
  Gr8 way to explain.
  
  
• From: xml (@ 128.148.68.57) on: Mon Jul 21 11:54:11 EDT 2003
  
  What about the wonerful melody song Jack&jil in parasuram. Nice to listerning.
  
  
• From: x (@ 156.153.254.41) on: Mon Jul 21 12:22:03 EDT 2003
  
  Innovation and ARR ---no way.
  
  
• From: V (@ 141.149.235.21) on: Mon Jul 21 13:37:12 EDT 2003
  
  nice to see some sanity return to the proceedings!
  
  Quite obviously we have some fanatics still trotting this threadand destroying the quality of iteractions. I dont need to name them and you guys clearly know who that is.
  
  Musio great way to explain. But as Music4Ever added, I am sure ARR has his quota of sungs that are definitely hummable and will stand the test of time. Surely not any in the last 3 years!
  
  Jack&Jill ofcoyurse sounds cool with the extrafittings so to say. But it is not in the league of the songs ARR can be proud of few years from now.
  
  
  
• From: V (@ 141.149.235.21) on: Mon Jul 21 13:38:39 EDT 2003
  
  Hey MusicIsLife,
  
  regarding our discussion on composer, this is what came up to my mind immediately.
  
  ARR is a "Music Composer par excellence".
  
  IR is "Music"
  
  ;-)
  
  How is this?
  
  
• From: MusicIsLife (@ 170.146.91.6) on: Mon Jul 21 14:14:28 EDT 2003
  
  V,
  Gr8ly agree to "IR is Music",
  
  But I have became an IR-Verian...
  
  
  
• From: MusicIsLife (@ 170.146.91.6) on: Mon Jul 21 14:18:23 EDT 2003
  
  Sorry for incomplete post
  
  But I have become an IR-Verian according to MADDY.... Just kidding
  
  
• From: Vatsa (@ 160.83.32.14) on: Mon Jul 21 15:02:34 EDT 2003
  
  Hi V and all,
  
  I think the whole topic will get monotonous if everyone uses superlatives. Seems like its getting montonous.
  
  When it comes to MDs, all zeroes down to what music they have created than who likes whom. This would make us share some experiences about good and bad output from both IR and ARR instead of keeping on saying IR is KING and ARR is PRINCE or vice versa or any of that sorts.
  
  To come back to merits and demerits, maybe many can give some songs or BGMs of IR or ARR and reasons why its good or bad (keeping into mind the trend when it was created). Though the goods will be tolerated by both fans, pointing out bad ones may be little decent to avoid some sensitive fans out here.
  
  I can start with one which is certainly different from most of IR compositions and his innovation and effective use of the singer:
  
  1. Manitha Manitha ini un
  2. Thom Thom (sindhu bhairavi)
  3. Anandha Raagam (Paneer Pushpangal)
  BGM : The biggest plus point of IR, especially for a comedy movie, I havent heard good BGMs (funny and funky stuff) except from IR (till now). Michael Madana Kamarajan and Arangetra velai were too good.
  
  I like ARR's recent because it was different and beautiful compositions:
  
  1. Vellai Pookal ulagam engum
  2. Kannamoochi yenada
  
  BGM: The Jeans theme music (or is it?) which appeared as a song in Bombay dreams, very good one.
  
  P.S: I am not a music expert and I go by what I hear. So my reasons might be quite simple.
  
  Vatsa
  
  
• From: Jag (@ 35.9.26.160) on: Mon Jul 21 15:30:32 EDT 2003
  
  Paran,
  750-1000 songs by ARR!
  
  70 odd movies, ok say 80.
  80movies*8songspermovie=640 songs max.
  Both limits are not reached?? what is this?
  
  
  Vatsa,
  If we are talking about BGM's we should give due credit to Manisharma and VS too. They definitely have good BGM capabilities. I liked Anbe Sivam's theme music, also VS has given good BGM's for comedy movies in telugu (Oh..Chinadaana for eg.)
  
  
  
  
• From: rajasaranam (@ 210.214.131.24) on: Mon Jul 21 15:36:26 EDT 2003
  
  HI ALL,
  
  merit/demerit or IR according to me is he is egoistic and he cares a damn abt others opinion. he finds himself the sole authority on his music and never cares for input frm others.
  
  merit/demerit of ARR is he takes input fmr others and give due respect to his subordinates opinions.
  
  BTW how abt including these songs of ARR in ur list vatsa
  dhil dhil dhil - kannathil muthamittal
  uyirae uyirae - bombay
  poongatrilae - uyirae[ man i luv that song i can listen to it how many times i dunno]
  pudhu vellai mazhai - roja
  netru illatha matram - pudhiya mugam
  satrangi re - dilse [ i liked the hindi version by sonu nigam, he was better than sriram]
  
  
  
  
  
• From: rajasaranam (@ 210.214.128.21) on: Mon Jul 21 15:53:36 EDT 2003
  
  good one jag,
  
  the past 10 yrs saw ARR giving 80 movies 80*5 = 400 is the max i beleive. and by the pace he is going now i think he can reach another 50 in nxt ten yrs [ the max. probability for ARR to be around here] 50*5= 250 . so all together ARR will come up with somewhere below 750 nos. in his career. paran is over enthusiastic abt his icon.
  
  
• From: V (@ 147.129.97.159) on: Mon Jul 21 15:59:39 EDT 2003
  
  I would like to point out a great strength of IR which also works against him.
  
  When you look at his BGMs it is so technical and theoritical. Take for example the Ramana titles music. The Hindu said that BGm makes one stand up and salute IR. But, can you you rip that BGM and say "Ramanaa Theme" and honestly how many people will listen to it??
  
  I am not at all saying it is bad. Infact it is sop good and eery! But it is extremely complex and too theoritical and is so connected to the movie that without the visuals you would feel so foriegn to such technical western classical writing!
  
  Does anyone know how IR's music in "Ivan" did in TN? The slbum had nice songs! All songs were nice!
  
  
• From: rajasaranam (@ 210.214.132.69) on: Mon Jul 21 16:46:00 EDT 2003
  
  cmon maddy r u kidding,
  Ivan was a very noraml album of IR except for appadi pakkarathunna.it was a flop album in TN.
  
  

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