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What do we want from IR in future ?

Topic started by Natarajan (@ pryout.mecon.com) on Wed Mar 11 14:49:39 EST 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Being the resposible fans of IR, shall we define what we want from IR in future ?

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Isai Piriyan (@ library.uwaterloo.ca) on: Tue Apr 20 11:52:39 EDT 1999
  
  Raj!
  I'm just laughing, as I wrote, you don't know the whole story. I don't care whether S-G equal to Deva or IR. You don't know the whole story.
  
  For the sake, I'll list the reason. SG is yester Years Deva because 'Pattu vanna Rosavaam...' sounds like 'Uchi Vagirnthed...' song. Now, when you make comments like, make sure what you're talking about. How many good songs did SG provided compared to Deva? Do you know the stat? If you list whole statistics, I would just accept it. It's like saying IR's song sounded like some song, so IR is like Deva?
  
  I'm a fan of good music. That's it, period. I brought up KK vs KN, because KK is really bad. Nothing to rave about. Bava voice is really bad. (IMO). So, none of the songs didn't appeal me in KK. I really liked one song in KN. That's it.
  Are you saying all of the IR songs have great orchestration?
  I've all most all of the album, I like music, not the person.
  
  
• From: Isai Piriyan (@ library.uwaterloo.ca) on: Tue Apr 20 11:54:39 EDT 1999
  
  Raj!
  One more thing to clarify!
  What is Obsecure songs?
  Any songs not by IR is called Obsecure songs?
  In my Opinion, song of the century is 'Tholvi Nilaiyena Ninaithaal...' by M-G. Nothing can beat that song.
  
  
• From: bb (@ schubert.crhc.uiuc.edu) on: Tue Apr 20 12:14:25 EDT 1999
  
  manoooooooo, last two days, ensoy:-)))))))))
  
  
• From: Raj (@ master.hyd.deshaw.com) on: Tue Apr 20 13:07:04 EDT 1999
  
  IP: "What is Obsecure songs?
  Any songs not by IR is called Obsecure songs? "
  
  Firstly, you are trying to put words into my mouth. I never said or even implied any such thing. Kadhanayagan is a classic example of an obscure album. If it pleases you, let me add: Illam by IR was another obscure album. Ofcourse it had that wonderful song "Nandhavanam poothirukkuthu"...though I would say that Illam sucks compaed to KK. Period, to quote you.The fact that you liked one song from Kadhanayagan doesnt imply that it was a hit in its period nor that it is better than KK. Nor the fact that I liked "Nandhavanam pooth.." make ILLAM a better album than KK.Lets face two facts:
  1. In terms of public acceptance, wont you agree KK is a much much bigger hit now than KN was in its time? As you say ,"Don't just say that people's taste has been changed over the years. The same people continued like IR's music for a such a long period of time". QED!
  
  So much for people's taste! Well, going by your own arguments KK is better than KN!
  
  2. If you still say KK is better than KN inspite of public opinion to the contrary, I guess you are also not considering public acceptance as an indication of the quality of a song. Ergo! That justifies my stand on some recent albums of IR that even though they arent great hits they are of good quality! If, OTOH, you still hold people's acceptance of KK in comparison to KN, then I stand vindicated . Since one of these two possibilities must be true, you are wrong on one of these counts atleast. I am not rejoicing at this but please do note the logical inconsistencies in your thinking.
  
  
  
  Not every song of IR may be great in terms of orchestration, etc. But KK was certainly superior to KN in terms of orchestration. Obviously this is what I meant. Just try listeneing to the hopeless interludes of poo poothathai and then form an opinion. I have nothing against CB. But by no stretch of imagination can I accept his total lack of imagination in arranging the orchestra and poor interludes . If that makes me a Raja-fanatic, so be it. Unfortunately , you have chosen to bring in the issue of whether all Raja songs are good in oprchestration. Perhaps not. But whatever made you think I like ALL IR songs? Now what can I reply if you assume that I think in a certain manner and try to address me as if I were the representative of all that IR fans say? Except SPM, no one has been blind enough to say all IR songs are good. This is called biased thinking FYI. You are, face it, biased towards the opinion that all IR fans are out to destroy the reputation of other MDs and also you are biased in terms of time-period. FYI, I never derided S-G ever.
  
  And I know the whole story: You people think that merely appreciating all MD's constitutes objective listening. Mind you, I dont question that line of thinking. That is your opinion. And till today, I didnt open my mouth to disapprove or deride this line of thinking. I still dont. Whereas , by the same token, you must concede my thinking that "Appreciation of music in terms of its tune, melody and also orchestration"- when applying these standards, many Non-IR songs fail, while Rahman songs do pass in terms of orchestration but fail to appeal mostly in melody content and freshness to me- but you people safely take refuge in 'objectivity' and attribute everything I say to blind Raja fanaticism... there it is, while I understand and refrain from taking digs at your definiton of objectivity, you have no pains in deriding mine(ofcourse, it is no **** off my **** as a learned friend of mine would say:)) . Simply because that doesnt coincide with yours. And on top of it I am a blind fanatic whereas you are an objective listener !!!!! By saying "perhaps you dont need to know the whole story" you are trying to imply I just am a blind Raja fanatic who will not listen to other MD's. Let me disappoint you by stating that there are other MD's I hold in high esteem like SDBurman, Salil Choudhary, MSV and KVM. I would consider it just as blasbhemous if anyone equated CB or S-G with MSV or SDB. Not everyone can be a Sivaji Ganesan. If , on watching a Vijaykumar movie, I observe that Sivaji would have done better and that VK has sivaji's influence, I am merely stating a fact. Nor does considering Vijaykumar on par with Sivaji constitute objectivity. If you think so, I give up here.
  
  Please understand this: My parameters for a good song happen to coincide with what IR, by default , provides. Hence I happen to love most of his songs. Incidentally, neither S-G, nor CB nor any contemporary of 80's IR provided me with that parameters. The only song of S-G I can remember that was reasonably within my paramaeters was "Paniyum neeye mazhaiytum naane" but with CB , I cant even think of one because while there were some good tunes, he royally spoilt them with his poor orchestration. That is the reason I dont hold them in high esteem. Not, as you have tried unsuccesfully to project, because I am blind in my admiration for Raja. Well, you say you dont like KK because of Bhava's vocals. Let me tell you, for me orchestration, innovation, creativity are more important than the voices. bhava is passable and thats enough for me. Yet you try to subvert this issue by trying to project me as a general NOn-IR-MD basher. What can I say to that? Salil choudhary provides me with these parameters. SDB does. Sometimes MSV does. Heck! Even Rahman does sometimes. But S-G did just once. And CB never! That is the reason I despise their music.
  
  See: S-G and CB provide your parameters. Hence you like them. Can I say that you like them only because of your nostalgia for 80's? NO, I wont. It will be ridiculous. I try to go by logic when refuting any statement. FYI, I am not laughing just because your opinions differ from mine.But you ofcourse will have no compunctions in dismissing any opinion of mine as triggered by blind passion for Raja. What price logic? Why dont you try to reply to me in a logical fashion without trying to attribute every opinion of mine to Raja worship? Or am I asking too much of you?
  
  
  Now to the next point: Someone said S-G is yesteryears' deva. You are trying to talk statistics now. Dont assume I dont know about S-G. I grew up in the eighties and I have listened to practically every album of S-G, atleast in passing.
  ". How many good songs did SG provided compared to Deva? "
  
  I am sorry to say this IP: Statistics are bound to favour Deva. I mean, if you dont consider Deva's copies as copies but as mere pieces of art, he'll have far more number of hits/good songs than S-G. IMO, Deva's orchestration skills are better than S-G. Ofcourse, S-G didnt stoop to copy as much as Deva. But that doesnt make their original efforts masterpieces. I recently saw a retrospective of Shankar-G on TV. The man pathetically quoteS "Pattukottai ammalu" as a popular song in its times and one of their best. Now that would be a pathetic state to be in. Twenty plus years in the industry and he quotes "Pattukottai ammalu " as one of his best. Sorry, IP, it doesnt reflect favourably on his capabilities.
  
  Lastly try to get out of the impression that I am all-Raja and nothing else. It is not true , as you will find out if only you pay attention to facts and observe my posts closely. Till now, I have never posted anything in ARR's albums thread in the form of review. Simply because I want to avoid sounding too critical of him. And I endure regualr posts in IR's new albums thread about how lousy such and such an album is. I dont retaliate by satisfying myself by going hammer and tonks at any other MD. Why? Because I am not what you people have made out to be.Yet you'll have me believe that I am biased, fanatic, and partisan. No wonder you havent been able to convince me on that count :-))))
  
  Lastly, and this time I really mean lastly[like the last time I am giving a last warning:-))], appreciating many different MD's is not, as you seem to believe, something that you practice alone in this world. My colllection of Old(hindi) songs outnumbers my Raja Collection by about the same ratio as there are Raja fans-ARR fans in this DF :-))))
  
  
• From: Raj (@ master.hyd.deshaw.com) on: Tue Apr 20 13:43:59 EDT 1999
  
  "In 80s, many of the MDs provided really good songs, be they SG, IR or CB. Such a good piece of works. I like music, not the MDs. I don't care where it's coming from, but a good one. I still firmly believe, 80's is the golden period for IR. That's it. Can you list any IR's album achieved platinum status, during the past 5-6 years. Don't just say that people's taste has been changed over the years. The same people continued like IR's music for a such a long period of time. Remember, 'Punnagai Mannan' was different at that time, and it was a big hit. Perhaps IR cannot provide a really good album now a days. I've listened all the albums recently released and none of them impressed me at all. IR's style is completely changed over the past 5 years? why? "
  
  
  I agree 80's was Raja's [and by 'logical' extension, TFM's ;-)) ] golden period. But that doesnt make his recent songs lousy. Let me point out another example of the futility of your brand of objectivity: Try this:
  
  Just because Raja was fantastically magnificient in the 80's you expect him to stick to that style and range. When he gives something different these days, it doesnt appeal to you because it is not what he used to give. IMO, that IS bias. That is biased listening. You have a pre-conceived notion that this is how I want my IR -songs to be. When you find something different, you dont try to appreciate it in terms of its innovation, creativity and excellence. Instead you sit and cry that it is not like what he used to give in 80's. Isnt that bias?
  
  Meettadha oru veenai! Boy! What a song! What a tune(as my dear raga-chaps would say, a brilliant adaptation of reethigowlai) ! What mind blowing orchestration and interludes! And dash it , quite a hit, too. Much much bigger hit than Kaliyugam and Ramayi vayasukku vandhutta(though that is not a compliment to this beautiful song) . Ask MS what was innovative , new and creative about that song. And that is just a sample.
  
  Dear Isaipriyan! IR's style didnt abruptly change after five years. Dash it, you can never point out any set style all through his career except maybe in the beginning when he was typecast in the dabbanguthu mould. Maybe you can point out minor changes like how he used a lot of violins and flutes in the early 80's , more of tabla in the late 80's . All through these years, he has been excelling in carnatic-based, WCM-based, and other genre.
  
  In the past five years , huh? What about Mogamul? What about Marupadiyum? What about Paattu Paadavaa? Have you ever heard pattu paadava? Have you ever heard "Poongatrilae kaalai podhu" early in the morning...and stepped out of the house(hostel in my case) and smelt the fragrance of flowers and strangely feel the same elation as you had while you were hearing the song?
  
  Have you, in late evenings , heard "Kamalam paada kamalam" and as He beautifully blends the guitar into the second interlude and proceeds to develop it into an orchestral delight invoking in you the feeling of walking through a Kovil pragaaram?
  Have you felt the pain of a dutiful wife, who shockingly gets a divorce notice on her birthday, simply in the guitar interludes of a song? Have you felt the pitiable pining of a young singer for a woman much elder and seemingly unattainable and his mental turmoil in the mere tune of a song? If you have, you'l realise the ridiculousness of your challenge to name an IR album which turned the turnstiles in the last five years. People's rasanai has changed , IP. And it so happens that they now dont care for such niceties as the song, tune, orchestration and interludes reflecting the situation and the character's emotions. Now all that sells is mere catchy numbers. IR can do that. But there is too much of an artist in him to stoop to that level all the time. It was ok in the 80's when he had to provide mere catchy music only for some movies while mostly, he could give vent to his creative mind. He experimented a lot and produced good results in Punnagai mannan. And thankfully people accepted that. He experimented a lot and provided atleast three beautiful numbers iN PoonthottaM. But it wasnt as big a hit as PM. Still, iu I shouldnt blame change in taste, then, thank you, let peoples' taste be dashed.
  
  This is purely in response to your statement quoted above. Please dont respond with "I like all MD's. IR is not the only one.". Ofcourse, by now, chances are everyone here will know that:))
  
  
  
• From: Praveen (@ dneiper.isr.umd.edu) on: Tue Apr 20 13:55:34 EDT 1999
  
  Raj,
  chinna Vayasula Essay writing competitionla ellam romba kalanthukiteengala :-))))
  
  

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