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Great Impact of ARR on Indian contemporary Music and IsaiGnani

Topic started by The Fan (@ spider-we053.proxy.aol.com) on Thu Nov 12 02:16:07 EST 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

By now we must appreciate the positive qualities of ARR's musical genre or style and interpretations. ARR has single handendly made film music and that too, Tamil film music one of the most favorite discussion topics anywhere. He reengineered or turned around the concept of film music in India and made it a pop culture. Though there is something left to be desired in his creativity, he has forever changed the landscape of Indian film music. Taking it to a different platform, he has escaped comparisons and stands at the heap of a new generation of musical presentation and thought. I feel glad that ARR happened at the right time to Indian films. Otherwise look what might have happened to Isaignani, who probably would've lost the inspiration to stay around. ARR's has woken up IR from his classical mode and made IR change mode to a trendy style, eg: KM and MVU, each filmy score of IR getting more experimental and in tune with current taste for music. In other words, I personally thank ARR for being the EYES AND EARS OF IR. New rhythms, extremely different melodic structures. etc.. In addition, ARR is gaining on to be the next icon of music in Indian film music, maybe not in Tamil film music, however. This is what we need. New persectives, a 360 degree difference in styles. In this thread, it will be beneficial to talk about how ARR brought in new things that made us wonder why didn't our other composers attempt this, so easy, so out there, why didn't they. And,difficult innovations that challenged even IR. This will discussion should be purely to discuss the impact of ARR's contributions and his impact on IR's creative styles.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: SR Kaushik (@ inktomi.doit.wisc.edu) on: Fri Mar 5 10:23:31 EST 1999
  
  There is one interesting aspect to IR's current music:
  
  His approach to composing seems to be different in Tamil than say in Malayalam. If you listen to his Mallu compositions, you would be reminded of the old IR. I think the reason is that such music works in Malayalam but not in Tamil anymore. So he is adopting tactics like making HH sing (an awful thing to do, IMO) and using Padma Seshadri girls to sing the routine "Hey hey" (maybe that's KR's influence).
  
  
• From: kiru (@ surf0004.sybase.com) on: Fri Mar 5 17:17:37 EST 1999
  
  I do see a change in IR's style after ARR which I consider very unfortunate. He is cutting on orchestration, only the percussion is highlighted (that too synthetic drums ..yuck). If this is all because KR is getting some work I would rather conspire to get this guy a H1 visa and bring him here to US on a Y2K software job :-) :-)
  
  But the fact is, as somebody mentioned, IR is a master of his craft. He is still turning out classics in lesser known movies (Poonthottam) and other languages. The mediocre stuff is for the mediocre audience which thinks they know what they want :-)
  
  Re: deterioration in tastes. I dont think this is happening. Only that the younger generation has more buying power. This younger generation prefers 'body-moving music' than 'soul-moving music' as Sitarist RaviShankar mentioned once.
  
  So still there is a market for quality music. IR and some of ARR's classy compositions (and other MDs good ones) will continue to fill this demand.
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.26.145) on: Fri Mar 5 18:35:05 EST 1999
  
  kiru,
  a little bit confusing, your last post. no deterioration in taste,.... but the younger generation prefer body-moving music, are'nt these contradictory? that the young generation prefers body-moving music signals deterioration in taste, IMO.
  
  
• From: Thiruppathi Srinivasan (@ 64-ppp-a.tnt04.agis.net) on: Sat Mar 6 00:47:48 EST 1999
  
  Modern generation likes body moving music which influenced ARR and IR has to yield that. I do not feel anything wrong in that. Even if you don't like it you may have to do it sometimes whether it is right or wrong. Please do not talk as if modern music itself was started by ARR. Now our people got their ear drums torn by the sound of ARRs tunes, to make the public listen to music is make it louder.
  
  
• From: CHAN (@ svr02-p23.ppp.umb.edu) on: Sun Mar 7 10:32:56 EST 1999
  
  ARR's has been a boon for people who did not think that IR was great. The influence of ARR today is so evident in almost all the MD's. That in itself is an immense achievement. I was listening to the song "poothirukum vaname vaname" and to my surprise it had all the ingredients of an ARR song, incidentally composed by vidyasagar, the starting SAX piece followed by the typical rahman style flute piece and the way in which the music gets glaring in the middle...and how the calm is infused by a seemingly peaceful rendition of the flute. All i want to say is it so much towards ARR 's music. ARR has broken the jinx that tfm revolved around IR. That to me is a herculian effort.However i do have a nagging doubt if ARR is as good as IR when it comes to purely carnatic scales. IR seems at ease when it comes to such songs. ARR has shown some promise in this respect but more remains to be seen.
  
  It is also true that the influence of ARR's music has been less on IR. However it is the tendency to dictate terms of ARR which makes him a winner. It is like he brings a new wave in music which often becomes so popular that other MD's have to follow or imitate. This make him a trendsetter or a leader.
  
  
• From: Shankar (@ webgate0.mot.com) on: Mon Mar 8 03:25:10 EST 1999
  
  Chan,
  Also , arr can never do fusion of WCM and Indian (carnatic/hindustani/folk)that effectively as Raja.
  
  
• From: Geetha (@ gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk) on: Mon Mar 8 07:52:15 EST 1999
  
  Shankar: Regarding your statement, "arr can never do fusion of WCM and Indian (carnatic/hindustani/folk)that effectively as Raja"..... Are you some sort of Future Fortune Teller? ARR has only been in TFM for Eight Years(92-99), How do you know that "arr CAN never do fusion of WCM and Indian (carnatic/hindustani/folk)THAT EFFECTIVELY as Raja"?
  
  Why don't you give him a chance, instead of 'bashing' him constantly? You and I don't know what the future will bring.....
  
  Agreeing with your statement for the present time(i.e. ARR HAS never as opposed to ARR CAN never), I would also ask you to listen to 'Uyirum Neeye' from Pavithra, which is Hindustani Ragam(Kamaaj Thaat/Kamaas?), blended quite exquisitely with Western instrumentation.....I would compare this with the IR number Vaana Mazlai Polai, by KJJ. Similar Ragas, Hindustani usage. Both numbers are very effective in creating Fusion.
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ s04.austin.ibm.com) on: Mon Mar 8 11:06:47 EST 1999
  
  Geetha:
  In 8 years, ARR is good enough to be the best for some. But when someone else points out that he is yet to better IR in a particular aspect of TFM (he hasn't done so in any aspect so far, IMNSHO), you ask for more time. Let's be consistent here and say, "ARR has not yet become the greatest TFM MD. ARR has not yet claimed the title of Numero Uno in FM. ARR has not yet excelled in anything in TFM, except recording (he has only himself to better in that)". Fair enough ? ;-)
  
  Frankly, 8 years is more than ample time to judge someone's potential. ARR has always been good - no ! at times like "Chandralekha", even great ! But he is never going to scale the heights reached by IR.
  
  IMNSHO = In My Not-So-Humble Opinion.
  
  
• From: Shankar (@ webgate0.mot.com) on: Mon Mar 8 12:00:22 EST 1999
  
  Geetha,
  U don't have to be a fortune teller to say that.
  
  Have u heard of this proverb "oru pAnai sOthukku oru sOru padham".
  
  8 yrs is too long a period to judge a guy's cpcty and arr hasn't done fusion that well as Raja.
  
  
  
• From: Geetha (@ gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk) on: Mon Mar 8 12:05:31 EST 1999
  
  Srinath: How do you know this? His style is totally different from IR, so how can you say that he will never reach the scale of IR? IR was 'flying' at the top, during the days of Guna, Dhalapathi, Sembarutthi, Chinna Thambi, but when Roja was out, what happened? The Northeners were after him, the Southerners were after him....e.t.c..... Just One Album form him caused this 'topple' to IR.
  
  I didn't think much of Chandraleka anyway....
  
  Have you heard the song that I mentioned? Maybe you should, as your taste and mine is obvoiusly very very differnt, I like songs like Uyirum Neeye, whilst you like Chandraleka. Lets agree to disagree in this matter.
  
  ARR is No1(maybe not in this forum, but elsewhere, he definitely is), lets face it, even in the "Popularity of all great Indian film music in Tamilnadu and of TFM all over India: Is that possible?" thread, IR is only popular in the South..... You people here speak as if IR is the only MD ever. Have you heard G Ramanathan's work? Have you heard the numerous 'OLD' songs that were before IR's time? Obviously not, otherwise you wouldn't be making such statements.
  
  I would say that ARR is definitely the No 1 FM Director, he has claimed this title fair and square....He has his flaws, but so does IR, it's just that you guys here will never accept this. I think that it's not worth trying to discuss this aspect with you. If Vidhyasagar does an ARRish album, or even YSR, it's highly appreciated here, you say that IR Layered in Annakili?!?!?(what a funny statement:) e.t.c.... In fact, most music groups in London started using the Bass guitar only after the 'event' of ARR....They managed very well with just the Hawaian Guitar and rhythm in the past.....
  
  I cannot argue with you, as you will keep soming up with explanations as to why IR is the best....It sometimes feels as if IR is funding a few of you to do this....In fact, People I've showed printouts of postings to have commented on the fact that you people think that IR is the only MD to have ever produced TFM(that too, seemingly because he has introduced WCM to TFM). You will put down any MD's before and after his era.... This is what 'irks' me, as I listen to Good music, whatever is melodious and enjoyeable. I discuss it, and will critisize when necessary, but I do not go predicting the future.....
  
  
• From: Geetha (@ gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk) on: Mon Mar 8 12:21:05 EST 1999
  
  Shankar: YET!?!?!
  
  
• From: dorai (@ gateway7.ey.com) on: Mon Mar 8 15:21:50 EST 1999
  
  Geetha,
  IR is the best MD ever to be in the field. He is still able to compose (not CUT and PASTE) original high class FM. Rest is all the same. Be it ARR, Vidhya Sagar, Deva or SA Raj kumar. They don't compose but cut and paste from someone else's creation.
  
  Even after 700 + movies his music is still fresh. We are comparing a MD with 700 + movies with ARR who is not even 70+. So, let him compose for some more movies and then see where his position is.
  
  IR used to do 60 movies a year on an average in '80s. Can ARR even come close to 10 movies a year and retain his present position. Its waste of time comparing IR with ARR. We all know IR is the best and will be the best ever just by the virtue of his original work.
  
  Let ARR stop recycling, copying and doing gimmicks by introducing singers like Udit Narayan, Shukbir Sing et al just for the heck of it. To be a real number 1 in the field you don't have to do all this. IR never adopted these silly tactics to be number 1 in his peak days. He just produced great music which has kept him in the first place.
  
  IMO, he is still the no 1
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.26.62) on: Mon Mar 8 16:14:47 EST 1999
  
  geetha,
  ARR did replace IR at the top when roja came out but that was temporary. also consider the fact that raja was busy at that time working on his symphony, did'nt pay much attention to TFM and i guess did'nt even give a serious thought about fighting back, etc. but how long could ARR last at the top? he was replaced by deva pretty soon at the top.
  
  how can u say with cerainity that ARR is THE popular MD? i feel the ARR storm has already died down. ARR can NEVER do to IR, what IR did to MSV, chandrabose, shyam,manoj-gyan, shankar-ganesh etc. in the eighties, i.e. wipe them completely off the scene.
  
  when people were talking about IR's retirement etc. bang he came back with KM replacing ARR at the top and recently his kaadhal kavithai was also a chart topper and many sites reported that the cassettes were selling like hot cakes throughout tamilnadu. he did'nt lose his creative touch either choosing to reserve his classic compositions for mallu films.
  
  so whichever way u argue, either popularity wise or creativity wise, u cannot say with any degree of certainity that ARR is the no1 md right now.
  
  iam not saying that ARR is bad, No, definitely not.but he does'nt have tamilnadu in his grip like he had when roja came out and like when IR had in the eighties. Face it or not, he has to definitely share a lot of his popularity/films right now with deva and IR. there is no clear winner right now. gone are the days of monopoly. what with newcomers like bharadwaj coming up and with vidyasaagar coming up with occasioanl hits its going to be only tougher for ARR.
  
  i also have to admit and agree with some others that most of ARR's films have been for big banners like kunjumon,madras talkies etc. and the hype and the marketing gimmicks have helped a lot in selling his albums. whereas some of IR's best songs go unnoticed because the films don't even get released. iam not giving excuses, but that's the way it is. IMO, i liked songs of poonthottam, poonjolai(gaana kuyile, un perai ketaale) better than kaadhal kavithai, but it was finally KK that clicked at the market.the constant hype associated with the film, what with every mag carrying news bits about isha, the locales in london, diana cemetry etc. definitely boosted the the initial sales. of course, iam not saying that u can sell even trash by using marketing gimmicks, but definitely u dont need an album like mouna raagam or anjali if u have a good banner supporting u.
  
  
  

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