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IR or ARR

Topic started by M.Anand (@ ihproxy1.proxy.lucent.com) on Tue Jan 18 01:03:04 EST 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

hi all, I am Anand from bangalore and a new visitor to the tfm page. I am a great fan of both ARR and IR. I browsed through all the earlier threads on ARR and IR. It seems to me that there are quite a few anti ARRs out here.

Let me tell you something about IRs music. IRs music became popular and sounded different because he tried to bring in a westernization of Carnatic ragas in his songs. Even a dappanguthu was in Lathaangi or sivaranjani. That actually made the difference. Otherwise he is no great MD. One might argue that such a westernization or incorporation of a carnatic raga in a dappanguthu or jazz is something that demands great applause. But IR doesn't deserve that because, if u say u are tuning a song in a particular raagam, you have to bring out the nuances, the laya and bhaava of the raagam in to the song. Just traversing the swaras in the raagam here and there does not mean that u have tuned a song in that raagam. Ilayaraaja has done just that, a mere traversal through the swaras. In many places, there were apaswaras also. ARR has tuned very few songs based on Carnatic ragas but they were classics. For example Mettu podu in Anjali is a beautiful song in Ananda Bhairavi. He has brought out every nuance of the raagam in that song. Minsaara Kanna in padaiyappa is an excellent piece in vasantha. En mel vizhunda mazhai tuliye is again a beautiful piece in kaapi. A real mix of the east and west. That is what u call fusion. Ilayaraaja boasts of having composed songs in rare raagas like chala nattai, kanakangi etc. For example pani vizhum malar vanam in chala nattai is again a pure note traversal. There was no attempt to bring out the nuances in the raaga. So IR knew how to make songs sound good but ARR gives a fine polish to each and every one of his songs. IR composed music for 700 odd films. Hey Ram is his 785th film. Considering 7 songs per movie, he has tuned almost 5500 songs. Huge number indeed but hardly 5% of those songs are listenable others are 100% pure junk. But 99.9% of ARRs songs are listenable and they are also good numbers. What do you say about this?

Regards,
Anand

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Shankar (@ 192.135.244.69) on: Mon Sep 18 04:30:09 EDT 2000
  
  >>Go get out and listen to some Wagner, Franck and you will know where IR lifts his interludes from!!<<
  
  Cud u list me the some of the pieces raja lifted from wagner....I have a reasonably good collection of Wagner and I have quite a few good BGMs of Raja. Pls gimme the list of copied BGMs, lemme cross check...if u don't gimme the list, u'll prove (most of them already know i guess ) u r bull*shitting :-)
  
  
• From: Kothavaal Saavadi Buddhan (@ 216.65.106.130) on: Mon Sep 18 07:02:01 EDT 2000
  
  romba pazhaya vishyam...kudhiraikku nera paakkarthukku kannukku rendu pakkam edho poduvaanga...athellam podamale, neenga single track'la yosikarthu, intha convergence yugathula sema thamash! yaaro etho sonna, athukku konjam logical'a...(shankar'oda mail parava illa, konjam sense irukku) bathil sollanum...
  
  illa pothikittu poganum. aana neenga inna panreenga...crossing ur limit'aame! nalla joke. yaar yaarukku limit podrathu? yaruppa athu vanavil, ulagathula irukara makkal ellarukkum neenga thaan limit poduveengla? nalla thozhil thaan ponga. ada konjam IR'a pathi ipdi apdi opinion yaarukume irukka koodatho? romba thappo?
  
  iruntha inna pannuveenga? kanna nondiduveengla? ada pongayya...seriyana kenathu thavalainga ellarum...intha internet yugathula oru parantha manapaanmai venumngo! ethayum alasi aarayara openness venumngo. yaaro sindhu bhairavi pudikalainnu sonna 'seri, athu avaroda opinion' apdeenu vidra manapaanmai venumgo. ithellam illenna, naan modhala sonna mirugam thaan nyabagam varuthu.
  
  ipidiye evlo naal iruppeengannu naanum paakaren.
  
  kothavaal saavadi buddhan
  
  PS: Naan mutrum thuranthavan, nee thootruvathum, pugazhvathum unakke poi seruga.
  
  
• From: Isai rasigan (@ 212.97.200.23) on: Mon Sep 18 07:52:19 EDT 2000
  
  Hi, I am a silent reader of this forum for the last 1½ year.
  I think that you guys shoulden't compare IR with ARR, because IR is and legend.
  Now its time to compare ARR with Yuvan Shankar Raja!!
  Sorry for the disturb
  
  
• From: unmaivirumbi (@ 134.113.203.137) on: Mon Sep 18 09:50:06 EDT 2000
  
  Guys dont you ever get tired of this lousy topic
  wasting your time,in this endless debate,nowadays TFM page has become montonous and stereoptype.
  Mr. Anand you want people to visit your discussion forum,please start some good knowledgable topic and not like this one for mere hatred and cheap popularity...
  Please put an end to it.
  What do you gain by such useless topics.
  Please stop it and stop it now.
  I request sincere IR and ARR fans not to encourage such topics in future we had enough of this kind of crazy topics..
  
  
• From: peeps (@ 202.54.13.6) on: Mon Sep 18 10:27:20 EDT 2000
  
  i am a silent spectator in tfm discussion forum...i think the verbal fight between two section of fans is very sad to see...
  everyone will have some colour as their favourite colour,u cant ask them what is the reason that u are tilted towards this colour and why didnt u like the other colour.moreover u cant force others to tell that this is the best colour.music is also like that.each one will have different taste and that taste depends on so many things.
  any art should give peace and happiness to the mind.why are u spoiling ur moods and hurting others in the name of music???
  healthy discussions are always welcome.instead of shouting in this thread u can read the thread musical instuments by rjay or some other useful threads
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.23.185) on: Mon Sep 18 11:22:00 EDT 2000
  
  peeps:
  
  100 % true.
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.23.185) on: Mon Sep 18 12:49:50 EDT 2000
  
  KSS:
  
  Who said people cannot have their opinions cast in a forum ? If it is a matter of taste,it is personal. If it is a discussion, it need be logical and truthful. Claiming something is good or bad needs substantiation. Empty statements like "sindhubhairavi is the worst of all albums" are, IMO, just muck thrown on a composer of high calibre. say, you don't like Sindhubhairavi - I don't question. But declare it is the worst - you are in for a brawl.
  
  A note on your "unattached" stand:
  
  Denouncing is escapism. Stay upright for a discussion. Your denial of both supporting and opposing arguements will just mean that you have no content or reflexes.
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.23.185) on: Mon Sep 18 12:50:41 EDT 2000
  
  peeps/folks - don't you think I am alternating ?:-)
  
  
• From: peeps (@ 202.54.13.6) on: Tue Sep 19 00:08:24 EDT 2000
  
  MS:
  who is KSS first of all???
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.23.185) on: Tue Sep 19 02:57:06 EDT 2000
  
  KSB not KSS :-)
  
  
• From: mozart (@ 202.54.13.6) on: Tue Sep 19 09:30:02 EDT 2000
  
  illayaraajas songs of the 80's doesnt have a good picturisation except for maniratnam and mahendran films.
  even then if they are telecasted in TV we cant change to other channels.we are tied by the melody in it.for example pani vilum malarvanam(no special effects or foreign locations or great dance steps) even then it was an alltime hit..
  but for todays songs they are spending lakhs and lakhs of rupees for picturisation,even then we cant see them after two months...
  thats the magic of illayaraajas music...even then it is badly picturised it makes us sit and enjoy the song.
  vaaazhga evergreen illayaraaja
  
  
• From: Beethoven (@ 202.9.175.244) on: Tue Sep 19 11:54:55 EDT 2000
  
  Yep..
  U r right...Mozart....
  
  
• From: Karthik (@ 24.176.37.123) on: Tue Sep 19 11:58:09 EDT 2000
  
  Hey Guys,
  I am an ardent admirer of IR. A kinda likeness for ARR is also there. But look IR hasn't changed according to the times. Ppl need fast paced songs now with good beats. Even carnatic music ppl have started to include beats in their music (i personally don't like this kind of fusion but they have become hits). IR is very adamant in his kind of music and is too much adamant in promoting his varisus. This attitude has clouded his achievements in music.
  ARR has good music but has an extremely bad lyricist in diemandu. He uses words like theneer (for tea) etc etc !!!! Thinks he writed for elite masses. ARR also has some abaswaramast music in recent hits like alai payudhe (dum dum dumakka dum dum dumakka.... the moment i hear i want to run 1000 miles away from my music set and that athe athe thing in BR's movie). That's all we have folk in TFM and we have to put up with that.
  
  
• From: pennathur (@ 129.22.214.117) on: Wed Sep 20 01:36:13 EDT 2000
  
  Listen to fRANCK 4th Symphony in D minor. It is said to have been cmposed by him after a reading of the "Secret Sharer" by Joseph Conrad.
  
  
• From: Shankar (@ 192.135.244.69) on: Thu Sep 21 05:00:54 EDT 2000
  
  u haven't answered me pennathur...
  
  
• From: JKV (@ 203.126.228.21) on: Thu Sep 21 05:40:34 EDT 2000
  
  ARR IS GREAT
  ARR IS GREATER THAN IR AND OTHERS
  GOD IS GREATEST
  
  
• From: ARR (@ 202.9.175.244) on: Thu Sep 21 06:10:27 EDT 2000
  
  And the GOD is IR....
  
  Pavam JKV neengha
  
  
• From: Dorai (@ 216.217.47.130) on: Thu Sep 21 09:37:13 EDT 2000
  
  JKV, ARR
  IR is the "GOD of Music" as per TFM IR fans
  
  
• From: kk (@ 198.4.92.5) on: Thu Sep 21 09:42:46 EDT 2000
  
  shankar.. avar appapo vandhu ippdi alli thelipar.. neenga than yosichi avar answera purinjikanum. Avar oru isaisani.
  
  
• From: prakash (@ 62.252.32.4) on: Thu Sep 21 15:58:10 EDT 2000
  
  pennathur,
  is it franc(liszt)?
  
  
• From: suresh (@ 202.88.153.56) on: Fri Sep 22 01:22:17 EDT 2000
  
  shankar
  you won't hear from pennathur.. he's made a habit of writing some abominal stuff that he'll never be able to validate, and when the heat is on, just vanish from the scene.. i'm yet to hear from him after there were some rebuttals to all his mud-slinging in 'the worst piece of criticism on IR' thread..
  
  
• From: Shankar (@ 192.135.244.69) on: Fri Sep 22 04:26:18 EDT 2000
  
  pennathur,
  does ur silence imply that r bull_shitting all the time ???
  
  
• From: Dorai (@ 216.217.47.130) on: Mon Sep 25 10:00:09 EDT 2000
  
  Folks,
  I had been to ARR's Live concert in Long Island, NY. Apart from 2 or 3 songs out of a total of around 25 to 30 songs all the Music was DEFINETLY played from tracks. ARR had hired musicians locally (ie., in the US) to make such a drama or what???.
  
  Its totally a pity to see a established MD to trick and fool people with track music played in live shows. He should have tried to bring the real live music from his troop whether it comes out good or bad.
  
  I saw most of the foreign musicians idle most of the time and the good part about it is that they did not pretend to play music as opposed to their Indian counterparts who were pretending all thro the show.
  
  
• From: copied from another thread(ARR's concert) by lev mirlas (@ 32.97.110.69) on: Wed Sep 27 17:25:13 EDT 2000
  
  hey guys read this...
  Real music composition and to play before the audience should have a lot of talents and should be a genius. A sound engineer can only do karoke.
  Take for example the work of Yanni in present days
  or the great works of Wolfgang "Mozart" they all were genius and were performing live.The coordination among different instruments and writing and imagining the music before being played is a wonderful art and a specialized skill which our "WHIZZ-KID" can't and will never do it.
  He just mixes bits and pieces from here and there.
  It is really shameful to tell that he is a composer. Those are the people called as musicians.
  Pl. I don't want to hurt anybody. But people should realise this. Just by recording some odd pitches is not great. Well I had high hopes before coming to this concert. But...I could not appreciate any thing. Sorry for the same
  
  

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