Home   Forum   Wiki   Notes   Register   FAQ   Sitemap   About Us   Contact Us  

ARR's song making style

Topic started by kiru (@ 192.138.149.4) on Tue Oct 3 18:56:17 EDT 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

I'd appreciate if knowledgeable people can contribute to this thread, hopefully explaining musical techniques in a form that everybody can understand

---

Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: krishnamurthy (@ 198.102.112.201) on: Tue Oct 10 18:30:32 EDT 2000
  
  Iam sorry fan, I digressed on the topic. But I certainly didnt intend to say that Old songs are better than new ones ( or BA is better than MBA ). I was only trying to say that arr's composing style has "bits and pieces" and has so many repetitions.
  
  
• From: fan (@ 216.190.255.35) on: Tue Oct 10 18:40:47 EDT 2000
  
  sabesan, you have a better judgement,
  frankly I was not able to get the feel, i taught it was a thriller kind of stuff.
  
  kishmu, "bit, pieces and repetitions"
  instead of repeating the same point , prove it with good musical examples. Get some example
  
  
  
  
• From: sabesan (@ 63.203.255.254) on: Tue Oct 10 18:47:31 EDT 2000
  
  fan, two reasons - one the song by itself is a "balana song"..... two - KAMAL - hmmm... what to tell more than that word :-)
  
  
  
  
• From: sabesan. (@ 63.203.255.254) on: Tue Oct 10 18:48:59 EDT 2000
  
  sorry guys, i apologize for breaking the flow here....
  
  digression
  
  srikanth, long time back u had ordered a CD which was supposed to be the original of "endha poovilum vaasam varum" song initial beats.... did u have a chance to listen to that ORIGINAL ?
  
  end digression
  
  
• From: krishnamurthy (@ 198.102.112.201) on: Tue Oct 10 18:54:44 EDT 2000
  
  An interlude in Usilam patti penkutti from Gentleman and a bass phrase in Konjam nilavu from thiruda thirda are exactly the same. I thought it was a common feeling with many to come up with examples - theres simply too many.
  Also coming back to bits and pieces...The intro ( i think it is the chorus part ) in the national integration song in Indian doesnt fit well with the rest of the song.
  
  
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.22.221) on: Tue Oct 10 18:56:34 EDT 2000
  
  Sabesan,
  I dont know about u/friends but the string section to me sounded as if something serious was happening like Kamal being chased by Police etc.
  It was surprising to see that scene for that WC-based section in the movie.
  
  Fan,
  
  U should note carefully that Iam not criticizing anyone for raga or scale changes in a song nor Iam saying that it is technically imperfect for someone to change a raga in a song. What Iam saying is that the transition should be so gradual that one does not get disturbed or feels uncomfortable by it.
  
  There are quite a number of Raagamaaligas deftly handled in TFM. sangath thamizh kaviye from manathil uruthi vendum was one in which u didnt lose the 'mood' of the song in spite of the fact that it had different ragas involved.
  
  The mood of a song is the kind of emotion/feeling that the song imparts onto the listeners mind by virtue of its raga, scale, usage of instruments(sax for erotica like Rjay mentioned etc.), lyrics, singing style etc. These are some of the factors whith the use of which a listener associates a particular 'mood' to a song.
  
  For example when I listen to the singer crooning 'Poorkalam ange' in a slow husky voice I kind of infer that it is a romantic song kind of a heroine singing with a feeling of longing.
  
  So once u associate a particular mood like that with the Pallavi of a song I feel that it is natural to get a little bit uncomfortable when sudden swings in percussion, scale etc. is epmloyed by the MD in the charanams.
  
  I feel it is kind of a compromise. If the situation really demands u have to abide by it.
  I always felt that the trumpet-percussion based interludes in Naane Naana and sundari kannal oru sedhi didnt suit the song. u get used to it after listening to the song many times though and after seeing dalapathi u come to know why that battle-type music was usede by IR in the song interludes.
  
  But otherwise it is wise to stick to the mood of th song and not tend to over-experiment by doing scale changes etc. Iam not talking about ARR in particular here but in general.
  
  
• From: sabesan (@ 63.203.255.254) on: Tue Oct 10 19:15:19 EDT 2000
  
  vijay as i had said earlier, but for the song, even i might have thought it as Kamal trying to hide from someone or like that...
  
  
• From: fan (@ 216.190.255.35) on: Tue Oct 10 19:20:06 EDT 2000
  
  sabesan, I shipped it to my friend directly,
  I was then busy with my recordings and later went to india, I forgot about it.
  
  I called him just now, it seems he is gone to swiss, is expected back this month end,
  cd is with him.
  
  
• From: kishmu (@ 198.102.112.201) on: Tue Oct 10 19:31:28 EDT 2000
  
  Fan, if u are srikanth dev, Iam in Bay Area.
  
  
• From: Observer (@ 144.92.44.76) on: Tue Oct 10 20:20:11 EDT 2000
  
  The WCM piece at the end of "pollatha madhana baanam" is very appropriate to the situation.
  
  The end scene in the song portrays how Kamal is convinced that violence is the key - that is why you see his wife getting morphed into a gun. That is also why after this scene, Kamal gets determined to kill Gandhi.
  
  Hence the Wagnerian piece since Wagner was a Nazi in his views.
  
  It is a case of music tailor made for the situation. I hope all of you can see it in this light.
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.22.221) on: Tue Oct 10 22:54:52 EDT 2000
  
  Observer,
  From a technical point of view and from the cinema point of view it might have fit well. But from the musical point of view about which we are all discussing here, it just didnt fit like a glove. From an ordinary sounding Laavani to a WC piece like that it was quite a transition. We got no 'clues' in the Pallavi or charanam that such a piece was about to follow and intuitively u would'nt expect that kind of ending for a song like that.
  
  I agree that from the movie point of view it might have been the perfect job.
  
  
• From: Observer (@ 144.92.44.76) on: Tue Oct 10 23:23:27 EDT 2000
  
  Vijay, that is not what I understood from you what you had posted earlier. Here's what you wrote:
  
  "I dont know about u/friends but the string section to me sounded as if something serious was happening like Kamal being chased by Police etc.
  It was surprising to see that scene for that WC-based section in the movie."
  
  Anyway, that is a digression from the topic. Lets continue on with the topic.
  
  
• From: raj (@ 63.252.192.73) on: Tue Oct 10 23:35:15 EDT 2000
  
  fan,
  1. you have mentioned that my earlier comments are a "pulambal"..yes..it is indeed a vethanai pulambal from listening to mediocre music..all we want is something that is pleasing (be it folk, classical,western etc..) and not something that makes us cringe..
  2. do try to make mature and objective comments and do not call other's comments as "absurd"..everyone is entitled to his/her opinions..grow up..
  
  
  
• From: KITKAT (@ 202.188.81.138) on: Wed Oct 11 00:39:23 EDT 2000
  
  raj
  if u want to pulambify, go shed your tears in some other threads, there are 1000's out there. U can have all the opinions u want but see whether they are relevant to this thread b4 posting.
  
  
• From: Krishnan (@ 192.135.244.69) on: Wed Oct 11 00:57:16 EDT 2000
  
  Fan,
  Why do you get tensed when people points out the
  demerits of ARR's music. You want all the peoples
  to glorify ARR's music or what?
  
  A true discussion should have both plus and minus points.
  
  
• From: raj (@ 63.252.192.73) on: Wed Oct 11 01:04:21 EDT 2000
  
  now that "fan" is taken care of, let me share my
  two cents worth..
  
  folks, as most of you have aptly pointed out, changing mood or emotions of a situation can be expressed in a song through lyrics, raaga used, instruments used, singer's voice modulation etc..however, just to express the change in mood, a music director does not have to shift to different raagas..for example: the song "muthal muthal raaga theepam.." in payanangal mudivathillai, (set on hamsaanandhi raaga) starts
  of expressing the anger of a budding singer when his maiden performance is threatened by rain..it turns into frustration and finally ends with gratitude and happiness since the rain stops..the whole song (lyrics, orchestration, singer's emotions) does not change raaga or meander unneccarily to express all the emotions..
  
  the other example where change in raagas (raaga mallikas) have been deftly handled to express flippant emotions: the song "adithisaya raagam.."in apoorva raagam is a classic raaga mallika (vasantha, bhairavi etc) that starts with
  a tame description of the heroine, then onto the surprisingly different facets of the heroine that fills the singer with awe and wonder and concludes with an ovewhelming attitude of the hero towards the heroine's beauty..the sudden shange in raagas has never made me or anyone cringe or shudder with
  discomfort..it is truly a gem..
  
  we can find numerous examples where good music diectors have succefully expressed changing emotions with or without varying raagas within a song..
  
  well, if rahman has to vary raagas to express flippant moods, then he better make it something
  that sounds good and that which does not make us
  feel unsettling..if he is using raagamallikas, he
  better know what combos of raagas to use in it so
  that they sound pleasing..
  
  folks, we welcome "experiments" in music (from whomever it is) if the final outcome of it is soothing..however, we should not promote something that is mediocre just b'cos it is exprementative..
  it is better to call a spade a spade..
  
  i write all these b'cos i love music and esp.
  GOOD music..
  
  
  
• From: fan (@ 63.225.174.193) on: Wed Oct 11 01:15:43 EDT 2000
  
  raj: Basically we have been having good discussion for the past week, thanks to many
  but you came in with your pointsless old story of jingles nursery bla bla etc etc.
  I taught this was not the right thread.
  
  I agree this is a free forum etc, but i read the heading fully. You seem to read the word "ARR" alone and start bashing at once.
  
  krishnan,
  I am afraid because many threads were killed for the same reason.
  A true discussion should have both plus and minus points.
  
  adada intha pointa neega follow panna nan en pulamba poren.,
  
  frankly i have contributed more good points here, adu enna nan post panna you are not able to bare it, take it easy Krishnan,
  why do you get tensed if I support ARR ?
  
  This will be final from my side supporting myself, if you wish to read it please do so, other wise just dont read it, i will also not read your anymore, my request is dont spoil this thread and this thread has been really positive one.
  
  
• From: fan (@ 63.225.174.193) on: Wed Oct 11 01:31:18 EDT 2000
  
  Arr also worked his way thru ragas,
  Hope we remember othakatho katiko....dharamavathi was used perfectly.
  similarly narumugaye - composed in kambera natai....
  anjali - misra mandu was done very well.
  Hairama -- panthuvarali
  Yaro sonho zara - punagavarali.
  
  
  We can give tons of examples of arr working with ragas.
  
  Do we have any hard core rule to use a fixed set of ragas in a ragamaligas I dont think so,
  Basically film music is away from all these rules of classical music.
  
  If you take poomailai vange vandal from sindhu bhairavi, supposed to be concert kind of music, why was there a keyboard chord progression shifting to another scale suddenly in the first bgm. It is all composers idea, one is not poor from another.
  
  also adhisaya ragam is in mahadhi (just 4 notes, c7th chord) and bhairavi (full scaled)
  
  

---

List all pages of this thread

Post comments