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ARR's song making style

Topic started by kiru (@ 192.138.149.4) on Tue Oct 3 18:56:17 EDT 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

I'd appreciate if knowledgeable people can contribute to this thread, hopefully explaining musical techniques in a form that everybody can understand

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: rjay (@ 208.51.40.112) on: Tue Oct 10 16:37:46 EDT 2000
  
  If you see older songs (upto KVM's time), an entire song would have a single mood. No dramatic
  changes. The reason I guess is that the purpose of that music in olden days was to aid concentration and invoke a particular emotion
  deeply. "Kangal irandum" - kaettalae manasu
  nondhu poi azhugai vandhidum. The instrumentation
  was more or less fixed from Intro, to pallavi to
  BGM to charanam. There would be rising and falling
  of musical tension by change of pace rythmically
  or change of registers, but the mood was same.
  
  The purpose of music began to change during 60's
  where instead of concentration, music was begun to be used for variety and enjoyment moods - like
  in cabaret songs, lovers running around the tree songs, hero making fun of heroine (ohoho unga ponnana kaigal) and many new previously unthought of situations. To fit the new moods,
  pieces from various musical styles would be
  included into the songs. MSV broke some fresh ground in this area (even though some works by
  G.Ramanathan are amazing in this aspect too).
  
  I am sure initially people would have felt that
  MSV's songs were so jumpy and jerky, he would use
  a strong bongo rythm in the pallavi and get down
  to a Tabla in the charanam. As time went, he and others learnt how to integrate the style changes
  without affecting the mood much. (Or, at least,
  we got used to it!)
  
  In Raja's time, even since Machanai paththengala,
  he was an expert in amazing style changes. I still remember listening to early Raja and feeling like cut and paste job! But soon we began
  to admire, how the variations created an expanse of
  musical ideas and how he could weave ideas from
  vastly different traditions into a single coherent
  theme. We have discussed elsewhere about how
  Poongathavae is a neat example of this trend.
  
  When I listened to Kandukonden first, even Kannamoochi enada seemed so jumpy and piece-meal,
  but after a few listens, you begin to get used to the changes and see the 'logic'.
  
  
  Just like we said music was used for concentration
  (in classical and old film music) and that was why
  musicians stick to one raga and one thala and one
  instrument), music now is primarily for diversion.
  So more the changes, the merrier. This is not
  necessarily better music but just different.
  
  
  
• From: fan (@ 216.190.255.35) on: Tue Oct 10 17:06:41 EDT 2000
  
  rjay,
  You have said "mood" does not change in olden days song...?...
  
  Like the old song kvm's odi odi uzaikanum...this contains many things that pertains to MGR type of song. But mood? what is it?, frankly i am not clear.
  What tells you Nila adhu vanathu mela is sung on a boat etc etc...
  what tells you nilakaigiradhu from indra is sung by a kid playing around the house?
  
  what do you get when you hear indiaya nadu envedu?
  
  Still I have this question....
  what is this so called "MOOD" ?
  
  
• From: Krishnamurthy (@ 198.102.112.201) on: Tue Oct 10 17:35:07 EDT 2000
  
  Well said rjay. It is very much true that TFM has changed quite a bit, and all these interesting changes have triggered so many discussions like the one we are into now. There is no better music as such, and tastes do vary.
  Having said that, I still feel a lot need to change the way music is composed now. Theres simply too many "changes" here and there that the whole purpose of the song is forgotten right after first few lines. I wish the changes made in the song are fresh, and does not sound like anything made before.
  
  
• From: rjay (@ 208.51.40.112) on: Tue Oct 10 17:43:01 EDT 2000
  
  Fan
  
  Your question is the first to be asked and answered by any music composer, especially a
  music director!
  
  I dont think I have an answer, though I suspect that if Vijay articulates more, he might have
  some insights, because I see some of his examples
  are close.
  
  Let me think more on 'mood'.
  
  I dont think anyone listening to Nila athu
  can find out that it is a boat song, they can
  infer that it is a erotic mood, by the use of
  pounding rhythm and the saxophone. So is panivizhum iravil. Boat song is a situation,
  erotic is the mood.
  
  Sometimes composers use sounds from the situation like march (indhiya naadu), horse (acham enbadhu), raindrops (thuli thuli),
  en kanmani un kadhali (bus song), and
  boat rowers singing etc to indicate the situation.
  POnmeni uruguthae, and Nila kayudhu can
  similarly tell you who is doing what!
  
  That is not what we are calling as mood.
  
  
  
  Mood is what we describe as sad, happy, jolly,
  naughty, funny (rasam?).
  And I think composers use the following devices
  to indicate the mood:
  
  Instrument choice:
  Veenai: may never be used in a techno song!
  Density (how many instruments are playing at a time)
  Pace : basic tempo
  Pulse : the repetitive beat heard or unheard
  Singer's bhavam
  Use of silence
  Bringing in more instruments and taking them away
  
  
  Let us analyse Rahman's enna solla pogirai and see
  if we can see the mood variations, instead of
  talking abstract.
  
  Intro: The song begins with Illai endru solla oru
  ganam podhum - very emotionally said by Shankar.
  This sets the mood of the song to a longing young
  man. There is not much instruments playing anything now, because the composer wants to emphasise the voice. (may be there is a bell
  like synth playing sa pa!)
  
  This is an innovative use of anupallavi as an intro and it fits the context well.
  
  Intro : Pizzicato strings play the basic pulse
  as an ostinato over which the accordian loop
  begins its obsessive going round and round effect.
  the scale is established as a minor scale and
  the listener knows that the song is a sad and
  serious song by now.
  
  Egyptian tabla (doumbek) joins in, providing
  a rugged feel to the mood.
  
  Pallavi: The strained hi pitch voice of Shankar
  mahadevan cries out the theme of the song. the mood
  is still the same. intensified with strong
  rhythm and bass.
  
  Anupallavi: is sung again, now it acts as an
  eloboration of the pallavi idea.
  
  BGM 1: Flute: begins with a heavy serious mood
  calling out, and it balances off into a softer
  mood (as if hero is consoling himself) and then
  plucked strings consolidate the idea.
  
  Charanam: The first few lines elaborate on the theme and when it comes to pala ulaga azhagigal,
  there is a distinct change in mood (sounds more
  like o rasikkum seemanae vaa).
  
  In BGM 2: You see a drama. The string sections
  create an arresting symphony of emotion.
  The use of sixteenth notes and the rising cadences
  indicate a battle. The same battle is played under
  different scales, to indicate the obsessed emotions. And IMHO, Rahman does not know how to
  end it smoothly, so he plays it one half time
  and plays a lead bit on doumbek.
  
  We did see two or three distinct mood shifts.
  
  This is not a final analysis, just some thoughts
  that ran across my mind.
  
  
  
  
• From: rjay (@ 208.51.40.112) on: Tue Oct 10 17:51:07 EDT 2000
  
  And composers exploit the fact that
  listeners associate certain instruments
  with certain moods.
  
  Like sitar or veena playing a fast 16th note
  piece indicates a happy (family event) mood.
  Shanai is a sad (family event) mood.
  In olden days Bongo uruttal would be used
  mainly for a chasing scene. Saxophone indicates
  a seductive mood, as is husky voice of a female
  singer.
  
  
  BEGIN shameless plug In one of my recent compositions, I tried to
  join together two distinct moods and was
  fairly successful. Dancing in the moonlight,
  begins with an alapana like section that
  sets the night moon mood and then there is a
  dance part. /shameless plug.
  
  
  
  Krishnamurthy, I feel the same way too. I am
  sure we will soon get to a minimalist music.
  
  
• From: moodu mannan! (@ 208.24.179.202) on: Tue Oct 10 17:52:59 EDT 2000
  
  Fan: mood naa theriyaadhaa? adhaan COGNAC machchi! adhu pOttaa thaan 'mood' varum. cHEy! idhu kooda theriyaadhavan ellaam kampooter la vaadhyam paNNa vandhuttaanga!:-)
  
  
• From: rjay (@ 208.51.40.112) on: Tue Oct 10 17:54:12 EDT 2000
  
  Krishnamurthy, if you are kishmu, can you please
  send me a mail?
  
  Sorry for digression, guys.
  
  
• From: krishnamurthy (@ 198.102.112.201) on: Tue Oct 10 18:02:27 EDT 2000
  
  Why don't we imagine how a song from one movie (without the lyrics) sounds in another movie? Say lets take 2 movies made for children. For example, "vanam namukku veedhi" from anjali put into My Dear Kuttichaathan. Will that song have fit into the other movie? I think it wouldnt have. What do u people feel? I think one answer to what a "mood" is also lies here.
  
  
• From: rjay (@ 208.51.40.112) on: Tue Oct 10 18:10:32 EDT 2000
  
  Krishnamurthy
  
  The actual examples you have used are wrong.
  Even if both are children song, both contrast
  mood.
  
  On the other hand, just listen to chikku mangu
  chikku mangu (MGR) song and how close it is to
  Kingini Kingini (Sivaji). They are very replaceable, except that the second song has
  a dramatic mood change to sad mood. That song is
  a good example of a mood shift.
  
  Aadungal paadungal (Guru, Kamal) is also a
  children song, but though the song and orchestration are very good, there is no element
  that says it is for children, whereas the chikku
  mangu and kingini use a rhyme like phrasing to
  evoke that feeling. Also Kadavul oru naal ulagai
  kaana.
  
  Somehow I assumed you would know these songs,
  if not you might email sk!
  
  
• From: rjay (@ 208.51.40.112) on: Tue Oct 10 18:12:56 EDT 2000
  
  Thinking further "Thangangalae naalai
  thalaivargalae (Sivaji)" is very close in
  mood to "Aadungal" both creating a sophisticated
  rhythmic feel.
  
  
  
• From: fan (@ 216.190.255.35) on: Tue Oct 10 18:17:11 EDT 2000
  
  Basically the mood is derived by the composer.
  
  If the composer feels sax to be used for an erotic situation he uses it., I have heard mirudangam jathi being used for rape scenes. Do you call it a misuse ?
  
  No one knew that the string section in heyram was for an erotic mood situation until they saw it. It was more like a thriller to me when I heard it for the first time.
  (btw: I am still struggling to play all the parts in that score:),
  
  Kishmu, we have already aruged on this, calling new songs poor than the old ones is like saying anthakalathu BA is better than current MBA.
  This thread talks about Arr composing style. Please stick on to it.
  I think you just read one page and posted something that occured, please read the entire topic and then contribute.
  
  Mood manan sir. (Mood+manan=?)
  thangal moodai pathi ore thani CD rome publish panalam :)enna ReadyA :)
  
  
• From: sabesan (@ 63.203.255.254) on: Tue Oct 10 18:26:53 EDT 2000
  
  Srikanth, by string section if u meant the music towards the end of "polladha madhana bhanam", i assumed (and so did many of my friends) that kamal is doing some nonsense (!!!!) with his wife or some lady.......
  
  

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