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Tamil Film Music Cateogories

Topic started by Mukund (@ internet-gw1.hea.com) on Tue Mar 10 17:54:59 EST 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

I want all of us to participate in a healthy discussion to come up with reasonable definition of different kinds of music cateogories - thereby shedding more light to unexplored areas of Tamil Film Music as it is becoming more and more "international" :-) by the day. This process is simply to increase the knowledge base.

Cateogories that come to my mind are Carnatic, Western Classical, Jazz, Fusion, Flamenco, New age etc. -- :-) so many terms and so little definition.

As for Carnatic and Western Classical, their foundations lie basically in melody and harmony based approaches to music.

What are the foundations of other kinds of music ?
Are they based on the use of certain kind of instruments ?

Since TFM-DF consists of varied set of people with inclinations towards different musical tastes as well I am hoping a lot of them to contribute for this article

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: bs (@ www1.access.bt.com) on: Mon Mar 30 15:45:52 EST 1998
  
  Arul:
  If U tell anything connected to TFM only I can follow:-)) So no problem about offence:-))) Obviously my aim was to put IR in the picture and think possibly what he would have done to show his creativity... Thanx for the response..
  
  Prof:-)))
  Thanx 4 the response.. Extra long postinga.. nane evlavu double-trible long digressions kuduthuttu irukken:-)))).. When there is matter why the need to worry about length:-))) Expecting more of education:-)))))
  
  
  BS
  
  
• From: pal (@ 128.101.145.87) on: Mon Mar 30 21:11:20 EST 1998
  
  Kanchana,
  norukki vittuteenga!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks a lot...
  
  I think singing in parts is a special ( grossly trivial ?! ) case of counter points......
  
  About various types of counter points :
  I feel there are only as many types as you have mentioned. But even these types of counter points are very difficult to identify... and some things are easily visible only when we note down the melody ( retrograde for example ). THe brandenberg concertoes are mind boggling in particular. Of course not to mention his organ compositions ( Bach's ). But apparently the best approach to deal with counter points is probably not by listening. The best way IMO is to look at the score sheets.
  naan nonthu poi counter point identify paNRa velAttu ellaam vittuttean. :-)
  
  In general, a counter point or harmonic parts are added to increase the expression/tension/activity/emotion dependin upon the context. I can give examples for every case.
  
  But the imitative counter point used in the 'great mass in C minor' by Mozart ( I am sorry I couldnt find it in my favorite links in the MIDI archives ) the starting of the first movement adds to the tranquility and space to the theme. SO there can be exceptions.
  
  
  
• From: pal (@ 128.101.145.87) on: Mon Mar 30 21:28:45 EST 1998
  
  Kanchan :
  The example you took to explain the difference between parts and counterpoint is excellent. Thanks a lot!
  
  About the role of the conductor in an orchestra :
  This is only an addition to what has been already said. There had been occasions when conductors had actually added/corrected the original score to suit their interpretation of the composition.
  In old days, the composers themselves used to conduct the performances ( not only the symphonies ). But when the composition had to be performed in different places, it is not convenient to tour with the entire orchestra. On the other hand, to do justice to the conductor's role, familiarity with the musicians is vital.
  
  So, it is practical to have someone who is familiar with the musicians in a new place to conduct the orchestra rather than the composer himself. Conductors are roughly associated with a few orchestras. Some composers are better known for their excellent interpretation of a particular composer.
  
  There were a few 20th century composers who gave lot of freedom to the conductors. Composers just 'suggested' the course of a movement, for example and leave the details to the conductors to decide.
  
  
  
• From: mannAru (@ ns.arraycomm.com) on: Thu Apr 2 00:31:11 EST 1998
  
  Mux, Pal, Kanchana, and other lecturers:
  
  Ayyayyo! enna idhu ivvalavu nEram thoongitten.
  Avan avan kELvi kELvi kettu classayE thaharthu
  kittu irukkAnuga! Sorry Kanchana. Ungaludaya
  arumayAna lecturai kEtkama thoongitten. Pakkathu
  paiyante irundhu notes (E-ADICHAN) copy adichu
  oru vazhiya muggA adichuttEn. :)
  
  Hey! mux, inime kELvi ketkum munnAl ennai
  ezhuppi vittudu ennA! :)
  
  Thoongi vazhindha oru kELvi illai irandu kElvigal:
  
  1) What is the major
  difference between the 3 era's of WC. I listened
  to all the 3 and too my makku moolaikku
  edhuvum thOnalai. (indha kadaisi benchulE
  utkArndhu kittu parakka parakka vizhichukkittu
  oru kElvi ketkuren. adhuvum kanavu kalanjadhunAla. nalla vElai innaikku enanum pudhusA oru topic Arambikkalai.)
  
  2) How is any theme improvised or elobarated.
  In carnatic, each raga is elaborated by doing
  shrudhi bedhams, gamakas, kalpana swarams etc.
  Is there anything in WC like that. I can
  understand the counter points and polyphony
  to certain extent. Apart from that how any theme
  is improvised. I remember one Mozart's symphony where two themes are there. It is suppoded to be portraiting a war scenario. First movement starts
  with nice slow melody represeting the peace and hormany and slowly now and them violent drum beats
  add up, and the violent music pickes up when the
  light melofy fades. Here he has used the counter
  points to fade one and face up another. But i lost the importance of theme here. Am i confused about the definition of theme. (Thoongi ezhundhu oru
  kElvi kEtta iiapdi thAn. orE kuzhappam. enna
  kEtkurennu enakkE puriyalai. hi hi hi...
  (Asadu vazhiyal). Should be taken as 2 different
  themes one for peace and another for war OR
  both represent the same theme war.
  
  Can anybody throw some light on Vivaldi's
  4 seasons. I can appreciate only the spring
  theme. All other 3 looks alike for me.
  
  mannAru
  
  PS: Kanchana! everybody used all the possible
  superlatives. enakku thondRiyadhai sollurEn.
  KaRaridha periyOrhaludan iruppadadhai vaLLuvar
  yEn ippadi puhazhndhar enbadhai ippodhu
  uNarkiren. Ungal sEvai thodarattum. mikka
  NanRi. Df-il ennai viyakka vaitha
  moondRavadhu nabar neengal.
  
  Mux: Thanks for starting the thread.
  
  
• From: Mux (@ internet-gw1.hea.com) on: Thu Apr 2 14:13:30 EST 1998
  
  Hi,
  
  mannaru: I'll wake you for sure, but just to let you know that I am not doing anything special by staying awake either :-). This thread needs so much listening (for me) that I have been trying for more than week to come up with a question.
  
  Everyone: I have started listening to some WC CDs to come up with some questions. I listened to a piece "Hungarian dance - No 5" by Brahms. It was simply outof the world. Simply mind blowing. First thing that struck me was that WC music can bring out so many feelings which I have not felt so far once in Carnatic. (May be vice versa too).
  
  Any time you want to learn something new one needs a starting spark. This one is a spark for me.
  
  Thanks everyone. Will be coming up with more questions later.
  
  Mux
  
  
• From: Ravi (@ greed.cs.umass.edu) on: Thu Apr 2 14:27:06 EST 1998
  
  Mux: Your sentiments about feelings are strikingly similar to what my wife feels. Pal also had something to say about that. :-)
  
  
• From: pal (@ x101-145-87.unreg.umn.edu) on: Thu Apr 2 14:44:30 EST 1998
  
  mmph! hi hi....
  ( Ravi ennai izhuthu koNdu vanthu niRuthi 'hm, you had something to say. So say something.' appadinnittaan...)
  
  My feelings about the sentiments err... sentiments about the feelings... are they sentiments? may be.. but
  
  
  "Music is in the ears of the be-listener" ( Angila pulamaiya gavanichalla??!! )
  
  So, Everyone will have a thing or two to say. So you guys tell me ( I want to listen before I make noise. It is true even in music sense. :-) ) your feelings and I will tell mine at the last.
  
  Gana: Are by chance referring to the 5th symph of Beethoven ( remember the classic all-time great historic lec-dem of one of the stalwarts of music living today???! ), which is spposed to depict the scenes of french revolution?
  
  Mux: naan atha kettathu illai... Brahms avvaLavaa kettathu illai naan...
  
  
  
• From: pal (@ x101-145-87.unreg.umn.edu) on: Thu Apr 2 15:00:54 EST 1998
  
  Mannaru: sorry, who is this gana? do you know him? :-)
  
  Shall I try to answer your q? moonru era composers-kkum difference. On second thoughts, instead of me talking a lot why dont we let the music speak for itself. Listen to fourseasons ( first era ), Beethoven's fifth symphony ( second era ) and Mahler's 5th symphony ( third era ). The second and third examples share similar feelings and sentiments.
  
  Some of the simple things you can note are :
  
  you will be able to see the "space" increase in these comps. vivaldi's compositions goes around the main tune and the related counter points. The instruments are mainly strings and winds.
  
  Look at 5th of Beethoven. It is clearly BIG and powerful ( noisy as some critics say! :-) ). He is able to "paint" a large 70mm aural canvass in front of you.
  
  Then 5th of Mahler is like looking at a 3D movie.:-) I am just comparing their sbility to create a bigger aural picture of the things they want to paint.
  
  That is for one of the many positive points. Now I will also give one of the few negative points. Look at the melody! The spring/allegro/4seasons theme melody is still fresh and catchy. But in the 5th of Beethoven...
  
  the theme itself is very ordinary when you start humming it ( if any ). The theme is great only when produced by that full orchestra.
  
  in the 5th of the Mahler.... :-) where is the melody???
  
  
  
• From: aruLarasan (@ psiphi.umsl.edu) on: Thu Apr 2 15:38:26 EST 1998
  
  the funny thing with bIthOvan's (romba thamizh transliteration paNNi pazhakkAiduchchu :-) )
  5th symphony is that it is completely (yeah yeah, I know, it is only almost completely)
  made up of the four note theme :-)
  
  

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