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IR VS ARR - On the best use of Instruments, Singers

Topic started by Dorairaj Pichaiyan (@ gateway7.ey.com) on Fri Aug 27 11:13:33 EDT 1999.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

I wonder how IR excels in using the Instruments and sounds that are so apt and appropriate for
the song situation. Even when it comes to the choice of singers IR excels in selecting the best one (including himself ???). Some of the examples of his most approprate selection of singers are

1. SPB - for songs like Vaigarail Vaigai karaiyil
2. KJY - Ammaenrzhaikatha Uyirilleye, All songs in Sindhu Bairavi
3. JeyaChandran - Raasathi onna Kannatha..
4. Malaysia Vasudevan - Oru Thangarathathil, Aaagayaganhai, Kovil Mani Ossai,,,etc.
5. Chitra - Paaddariyeen...
6. SJ - Countless no. of songs

Coming to the other side of TFM, i.e, ARR, he has created some new sounds and music patterns, hatsoff to him. But he still lacks the class of IR
when it comes to the right choice of Instruments for a song, the choice of Tune, use of singers.
For e.g, he has a tendency to choose a new singer for every other movie or song. As a result, there are many crappy singers now dominating very good and established singers like SPB, KJY, Jeyachandran (hardly hear him off late). Further, ARR in the name of freedom to singers has spoilt many a songs which has Shruthi Bedam, Mistake in Tallam and Tamizh kollai.

Any Opinions

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Responses:

• From: bb (@ schubert.crhc.uiuc.edu) on: Fri Aug 27 13:33:16 EDT 1999
  
  some of ARR's appropriate selection of singers:
  1. minmini - chinna chinna aasai
  2. spb - en kaadhalE en kaadhalE
  3. jayachandran - en mEl vizhundha
  4. UK - sakiyE, uyirum neeyE
  
  
• From: aruvi (@ spc-isp-tor-uas-94-42.sprint.ca) on: Fri Aug 27 13:55:35 EDT 1999
  
  Some more appropriate choices of singers by ARR
  
  1. KannaalanE - Chithra
  2. NenjinilE - Janaki
  3. Thaiya Thaiya - Sukwinder(hindi version)
  4. Sambo Sambo - malgudi Subha, ??
  5. PoraalE ponuthaaiye - Swarnalatha
  6. Chikku bukku Raiyile - Suresh Peters
  7. Uyire Uyire - Chithra, Hariharan
  8. Thoda Thoda malarnthathena - Chithra, SPB
  9. Thanha Thanha - Asha Bhonsle(hindi)
  10. MalargalE MalargalE ithu enna kannavaa -Chithra, Hariharan
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.24.106) on: Fri Aug 27 15:01:28 EDT 1999
  
  My opinion is to include this topic as part of ARR vs IR thread and not start a separate thread;))
  
  
• From: Elangovan (@ 212.57.24.3) on: Fri Aug 27 15:02:40 EDT 1999
  
  I am supportıng DPıtchaıan because except few songs of AR surely he ıs makıng Tamıl Kolaı by gıvıng chance to some peoples who don't know Tamıl espescıally some Hındı Sıngers. When you hearıng that songs you can't understand the words of the lyrıcs. O.K we need some change ın our musıc but not ın thıs way.Thıs wıll leads us forget the sweetness of our language whıch ıs naturally mıngled.Example
  ıf you hear a song from Romıo, Om shanthı.. shanthı naan padatta surely the peoples who love Tamıl Language wıll sucıde.
  
  
• From: Dorai (@ gateway7.ey.com) on: Fri Aug 27 15:25:01 EDT 1999
  
  Here are some examples of ARR's Worst use of singers.
  1. Thaya, Thaya - Tamil Version by Sukwinder
  2. Kaatrukenna Route - Bombay by Subha
  3. Kadhalikum Pennin Kaigal - Kadhalan by UDIT, the Worst Tamil singing effort by a Hindi Singer
  4. Sonia, Sonia - by again Udit (just wondering any one of us were longing for this kind of a Gimmick from ARR)
  5. Strawberry Kanne - by ???? another Udit type singer.
  etc. etc and the list can go endless.
  
  ARUVI, BB:
  Minmini, Chitra, SJ, SPB, Jeyachandran are IR's find and developed by him. So, can you folks discuss only about singers introduced by ARR and their achievements
  
  
• From: chandy (@ 209.125.83.228) on: Fri Aug 27 17:09:06 EDT 1999
  
  One contrbution of ARR to TFM is a variety in voices.. he introduced a lot of new singers.. WE have VARIETY in voices, thanks to ARR. ARR needs to be credited with bringing in lots of new voices to TFM!!
  
  Ennavale - unnik
  Kannodu - nitya sri
  Nila kaaigiradhu - Harini
  
  I think Unni, Harini and Nitya sri and good singers.
  
  One area where IR is really bad with choice of singers is :
  - the songs where he himself sings
  - songs where he uses his daughter Bhavadhaarini!!!!
  
  chandy
  
  
• From: Arun (@ 129.10.197.77) on: Fri Aug 27 18:21:48 EDT 1999
  
  Hi Guys,
  
  Right from Roja..ARR has been using Unni Menon.
  
  I like UM's voice and was wondering if some1 can give me some info on UM..Links of articles about him would also be good.
  
  Thanks,
  Arun
  
  
• From: aruvi (@ spc-isp-tor-uas-101-4.sprint.ca) on: Fri Aug 27 23:25:01 EDT 1999
  
  Dorai
  Though IR may have introduced those singers, ARR has certainly made good use of them, in some ways, more than IR, because he gives them scope as well. And your thread initially did not originally restrict to singers ARR introduced:-) Frankly speaking, I think that ARR has used the good singers real well. But I admit that his choice of 'one' song singers is irritating.
  
  And when it comes to selecting songs for other singers, if you think that IR excels, I am not going to argue. But please, he does not excel in choosing his own songs. Most of the songs are only liked by IR fanatics. There are some songs which sound great because of his singing, but far more that do not.
  
  Chandy
  I couldn't agree more.
  
  
• From: Raja Fan (@ spider-wd022.proxy.aol.com) on: Sat Aug 28 09:40:29 EDT 1999
  
  I feel it hardly matters if ARR songs sung byuntrained singers or anglicised singers. Lucky for famous singers because they would have to lower their standards to the way ARR's compositions go. Man, what a topic?!!!?!!
  
  Poor IR still compared in so many unimaginable ways
  
  
• From: Isaimaindhan (@ proxy1.qatar.net.qa) on: Sat Aug 28 10:51:49 EDT 1999
  
  arr's innovation was kollankodtu karuppayi for petta rap (film kaadalan) what a sound and effect for that song.. I bet IR doesn't have such an innovative idea.
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ ip55.kansas-city3.mo.pub-ip.psi.net) on: Sat Aug 28 17:50:33 EDT 1999
  
  Isaimaindhan,
  
  Not only does IR not have such an innovative mind, even ARR does not. After all the song was by Theni Kunjaramma and NOT Kollangudi Karuppaayi.
  
  Dorai,
  
  I thought Sruthibedham is an intelligent and intentional variation of the Sruthi. You have mentioned in other threads that you are trained in carnatic music. Why do you think it is ARR's PROBLEM? Pray tell us.
  
  If your intention was to genuinely analyze the virtues and deficiencies of IR and ARR, why did you not use the numerous other threads instead of starting a fresh one? If you are interested in mere mudslinging (by you or others), there is a dedicated thread for that too. You have been harping on this 'ARR has Mistakes in Tallam'. If you are talking about Chaiya Chaiya - End of discussion. Period. Topic closed. You are wrong. Srikanth, Arularasan,Y Geetha, and I, are right. There! I didn't mince my words or sugar coat it. If you have other examples please tell us.
  
  
  
  
• From: bb (@ schubert.crhc.uiuc.edu) on: Sat Aug 28 20:17:33 EDT 1999
  
  arun, u can find some good discussions on unni menon here:
  http://newtfmpage.com/forum/5930.15.08.29.html
  
  dorai, the list of bad selection of singers by IR will be too long to list:-) i wouldn't want to get into an argument on that! please look into the KD vs VM symposium where the good points were mentioned and the bad ones ignored. needless to say, both IR and ARR have done not so appealing songs, but there is no use in taking them for the sake of comparison. the milestones that they achieved are what that matter. BTW, SPB is a find of IR? that is news:-)
  
  
• From: GV (@ d156-fx101h1-lond-pdi.attcanada.net) on: Sun Aug 29 00:59:05 EDT 1999
  
  Dorai / bb: Nor are SJ or Jayachandran!!!
  
  
• From: Jee (@ 193.188.124.247) on: Sun Aug 29 06:17:25 EDT 1999
  
  Here is some of ARR introduced Singers Tamizh Kolai songs
  
  1. Kuluvaliley muthu : Udit Narayan for Muthu (100% Tamizh Kolai)
  2. Sonia sonia : Udit Narayan for Rakshagan
  3. Udal mannukku : Arvind swamy for Iruvar
  
  I like the lyrics by VM but AS kills that song by his worst pronounciation
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ proxy2-external.moline1.il.home.com) on: Sun Aug 29 07:52:28 EDT 1999
  
  Dorai ; spb/sj --- IR find.... he ha he ha hjoooo heeeee....doraiji porume! thangala --- How about stopping it.
  
  Udal mannukku -- is this considered as a song.
  It is piece of dialog!....
  
  by the way jee: Udit is a great singer, he just has pronounciation problem. tamil is tough language buddy,. KJY had killed it (thanks to your words) many times. I thinkg we agree that KJY is good singer.
  
  
  
  
• From: Jee (@ 193.188.124.247) on: Sun Aug 29 09:41:57 EDT 1999
  
  Srikanth,
  
  I agree Udal mannukku is a dialog piece. There was a mistake. sorry.
  
  KJY has improved a lot. Did you listen Harikrishnans tamil version. song : Thamizhisai mazhai tharum sandhosham .. Really good piece of work by KJY.
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.22.112) on: Sun Aug 29 14:33:04 EDT 1999
  
  It is really disheartening to see malice being thorwn on the pronunciation aspect of KJY's singing. I have not heard many mispronunciations in his songs. No, this is not a sweeping statement. There are instances of slips but no "killings" as Srikanth would put it. There are songs in which I have loved his pronunciation. For eg. in the song "Poovaadai kaatre" there comes a line which is difficult even for a tamil professor.
  
  "inbam engum koLLai, aLLak kaigaL illai". It is great to hear KJY rendering it with stunning perfection.
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ proxy1-external.moline1.il.home.com) on: Sun Aug 29 15:44:30 EDT 1999
  
  MS - the word 'killing' was borrowed from a previous posting.
  
  
• From: Jee (@ 193.188.124.231) on: Mon Aug 30 00:31:27 EDT 1999
  
  MS,
  
  In "NinaivAley silai seithu ..", can you tell there is no killing ?
  
  The whole song he pronounces "Therukkoviley OdivA" Instead of "Thirukkoviley OdivA"
  
  There are lot of other songs also.
  
  I don't know how people take different meanings for Tamizh word and English word.
  
  Kolai & Killing gives same meaning.
  
  
• From: Dorai (@ gateway7.ey.com) on: Mon Aug 30 11:03:05 EDT 1999
  
  Srikanth,
  SJ, SPB are not IR's find but definetly nurtured by none other than IR.
  "Udal mannukku -- is this considered as a song.
  It is piece of dialog!.... "
  I am glad that you admitted that, but I thought so far MD's record only songs as part of the album. ARR must go on Guiness Book of World record for recording a song which soundes like a piece of Dialogue or Viceversa.
  
  Udit is a great singer. Yes for ARR. Not for a TFM fan. He can in no way be compared to KJY who was one of the top most/best singer in TFM. KJY's mispronunciation is tolerable. But udit's is not.
  
  
  
• From: Dorai (@ gateway7.ey.com) on: Mon Aug 30 11:17:31 EDT 1999
  
  Chandy,
  I never said neither IR is excellent in singing with his own voice nor he has used Bhava to the best. So please stay away from just comments.
  
  About UnniK, NithyaShree, and Harini. All of them were introduced in very good debut songs. But after that I don't think Nithyashree or Harini really came with impressive work. Although UnniK sporadically comes with some good songs he still lacks the class of a geniuine playback singer.
  
  

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