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Where did Hey Ram and Sirai Chaalai' music fail in relation to the epic Lagaan

Topic started by rf (@ 172.164.126.190) on Sun Oct 21 02:08:51 EDT 2001.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Lagaan is a must see, though it did not come from Chennai, it is a must see to understand so many things about what TFM and TFilms in general have missed out in catering to a global audience. An actor who gave us Appoorva Sahotharargal with Ilayaraja Hey Ram was a big mistake and lacking in thinktank. Kamalhasan depended on Hype for that abstract storyline to sell. Sirai Chaalai was too stuffed i believe with elements that it lacked proper perspective and its songs were just ordinary attempts. A period film should have the type of music ARR created for Lagaan. Amazing stuff! (IMHO, Lagaan has become my favorite film in all aspects (screenplay, acting, story, casting and the bgm and songs)while Apoorva Sahotharargal is my second favorite...) I am saying that IR should come out of his mould and look at a world audience in taking up assignments like period films and be open to suggestions/criticisms/information and keep eyes and ears to the ground. IMHO, directors prpoducers are shunning him because audience has changed but IR cares only for Mozart and Bach and not for contemporary ideas. Lagaan is a good lesson for how Marudanayagam's music should be composed. I know HCIRF cannot accept this, it will take time as it took me (SuperFanofIR) to learn.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.230) on: Mon Oct 22 22:21:33 EDT 2001
  
  kiru,
  
  Digression:
  
  Look what came after you.:)It seems like my fear has been justified by your "friend".I think from now onwards I will try to refrain from posting anything directly to you.
  Frankly speaking, I don't have anything against you.One direct posting to you and you saw the compliments I got.Anyway, I think it's all in the game.
  
  It's just that sometimes I think you come to premature conclusion and for a person like you who surely has considerable music knowledge this is unnecessary and you can surely do better than that.
  
  What I think is: You post one weighty sentence and then you conclude based on your IR bias/ARR anti-bias.This is again my opinion and there is more probability I could be wrong here.
  
  hihi:-),
  
  If you want to send more bouquets let's keep it out of this thread.
  
  
• From: KS (@ 166.44.247.159) on: Mon Oct 22 22:32:25 EDT 2001
  
  piece, piece...oops! peace, peace...pleeeease:-)
  
  
• From: hihi:-) (@ 128.111.113.76) on: Mon Oct 22 23:55:39 EDT 2001
  
  trend: no. bouquets should be given in public for public services.
  
  
• From: ambleen (@ 202.95.121.98) on: Tue Oct 23 00:28:31 EDT 2001
  
  this is such a stupid thread & the guy who started this prob doesn't have any idea abt what he is writing.
  
  pls ignore or close this thread.
  
  
• From: Just_a_thought (@ 66.75.179.76) on: Tue Oct 23 01:45:25 EDT 2001
  
  I have watched both movies - Siraichalai and Lagaan. I am unable to decide which is better.
  
  Now, since I have not committed myself either way, can someone please "EXPLICITLY" give a few reasons for why Lagaan would be rated higher?
  
  Oh! by the way, if a computer can produce all the complexity that one would look for in music, are the loops used by some modern-day MDs created on an abacus? And granting that the computer indeed has a mind of its own ( and a musical one at that!! ), why will one have to discuss the relative merits of the music directors? Why not just talk about the softwares that generate this soul-stirring music? I know about some research that went on in CM to generate kalpana swaras (predominantly mathematical) through software. It was quite a contradicition in terms because there was truly no imagination. The emotional content was non-existent.
  
  Finally, the devil, dear sirs, is in the details. And IR's attention to detail is a by-word in the music industry. As MS pointed out, contemporary sounds for a period film is a bit, shall we say, duh?!! IR perhaps shied away from it precisely because of the reputation that he enjoys - good or bad is a matter of perspective.
  
  
• From: velramanan (@ 202.88.154.169) on: Tue Oct 23 02:36:56 EDT 2001
  
  
  if anyone wants to reflect on why people fight so fiercely when participating in "raja-rehman comparison craps", the link is given below. Air your thoughts.
  
  http://www.newtfmpage.com/forum/7023.06.25.41.html
  
  
  
• From: sundar (@ 61.11.73.133) on: Tue Oct 23 02:53:30 EDT 2001
  
  I think the whole thread is based on not so well founded points.
  Lagaan is a hit mainly because of its breezy story,production,acting and cricket.music is a minor factor for its success. people are listening to its songs more because of the success of the movie. that's all. Even ARR would not consider lagaan as one of his best. INfact some of the the songs/BGM are inspired from movies like kinaara (RDB) etc.,
  
  Siraisaalai had a fantastic MUSIC score by IR including SEMpoovae, AalolangiLI.It unfortunately failed in BOx office because of its serious theme and lack of tempo.
  HEYRAM IMHO had very ordinary songs scored by IR but with a good BGM.iT also failed in BOX office mailnly because of its story line,multiple languages in dialouges etc.,
  
  therefore donot conclude that lagaan succeeded only because of its music ! IR on his own score has made some mediocre movies as great hits.
  
  he does not need to prove himself.
  
  
• From: mahabs (@ 203.197.138.163) on: Tue Oct 23 10:56:33 EDT 2001
  
  imho,
  
  i have not seen lagaan yet. i don't want to comment on it. but to say that siraichalai is not good is a bit toomuch. it was a hit in kerala. ir got the state award for the bgm. mohanlal was angry 'cause he felt the songs are very good of all movies. but vidhyasagar (?) won the award for the songs of some movie.
  
  for a period film, the bgm should be like bharathy's. not like siraichalai's as bharathy's bgm expressed well the aathmavin thavippu of a neglected poet.
  
  if lagaan is like that well and good. it cannot be a bench mark, however. no movie should be.
  
  anbudan
  
  mahabs
  
  
• From: Bharath (@ 192.25.158.12) on: Tue Oct 23 11:12:40 EDT 2001
  
  interesting note on "computer music" (read as compooter a'la sarath kumar in kodeeswaran).
  
  I used to talk abt 2 ladies talking about their children
  
  lady1: "unnoda paiyan enna panraan"
  
  lady2: "amerikaaavula compoooter panraan"
  
  see "compooter panraan" so he constructs a computer like a mechanic with hammer nail etc... I suppose :-)
  
  so that is the level of abstraction that computer stuff gets on with people.
  
  How can ARR's computer do its own music...
  
  1) He replaces conventional instruments with digital equipement producing almost the same sound as those intruments...
  
  2) instead of playing the same music for a long time in conventional instruments.. in "compooter" you can basically play 1 "quantum" of that rhythm and program it to play for a longer time!
  
  but the rhythm and raagam and melody all are to be decided by the person in front of the computer.... like an old adage in software world
  
  "machines dont make mistakes ...people do". so "machines dont make music people do"...
  
  sorry for the digression!
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.149.253) on: Tue Oct 23 12:26:18 EDT 2001
  
  Trend..we should take this offline.
  Bharath, I will post more on computer music later when I get time.
  
  
• From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.230) on: Tue Oct 23 12:39:31 EDT 2001
  
  kiru,
  
  Digression:
  
  Fine with me.There's my email address once again.
  
  
• From: Bharath (@ 192.25.158.12) on: Tue Oct 23 12:50:58 EDT 2001
  
  I was majorly expecting something about sirachaalai! It took IR 2 months to compose bgm for it. Priyadarshan in an interview said IR would let go off the movie until he was satisfied that every bit of the bgm was to his saftisfaction. One of the rare moments where IR has been so emotional about a project!
  
  I did see the fruition of that effort on screen.
  But the songs.. I am sorry to say I liked "sempoove poove" very much but inspite of the brilliant orchestration of "sutrum sudar vizhi" ... the song didnt go down well with me. I thought the voice and the music didnt gel well enugh and frankly ( i am sorry if this is controversial) I dont like the song!..I dont think the songs would be IR's best effort! Its not even close to "Bharathi".
  
  
  Hey! Ram another story that was too bold and brilliant for comman man to understand. I knew Kamal was a "sangh" inclined person if you know what I mean!:-).
  
  I have read "May! it please your Honor" by Nathuram Godse about a thousand times to find out what his perective was.
  
  Kamalhaasan apparently has also read the book and Hey Ram! is all about that book! "sollama neriya solluvathu Hey ram Padam thaan " :-)
  
  In anycase I believe he was intelligent enugh to choose L. Subs because of a multi lingual appeal!
  IR was chosen for much debated reasons..i'll leave that.. but again "nee partha parvai.." .."isaiyil thodanguthamma".. "ram! ram!"
  were all master pieces! But none of them were liked by most Hindi people I knew!
  
  Lagaan, in my analysis had just 2 good songs "radha kaise na jale"( damn good song), "chale chaloo" (sounds like "dilse re" eh! ) and NO bgm. but then the songs were loved by the masses no one cared about the bgm!
  
  
  so where do we stand analysing all bgm and consoling ourselves that we are more litrate then most common man and so we have to stick to our standard.
  
  Sometimes it confuses me if we decive ourselves thinking IR's technicalities are not understood by the public...or just plain IR is missing the bulls eye by a few yards because of his wcm and other distractions...
  
  can he do a lagaan or is siraichaalai & hey ram the only way he knows to make music.. ( ARR cant to a siraichaalai or hey ram.. either but that not the point )
  
  
• From: Bharath (@ 192.25.158.12) on: Tue Oct 23 12:54:28 EDT 2001
  
  Trend & Kiru,
  
  Take it easy.. the fight is lost once you loose your detachment.. our interface is just the bboard with its arguments and logic.. not personalities... lets not get concerned about it!
  
  
• From: Saravanan (@ 64.220.209.210) on: Tue Oct 23 15:15:03 EDT 2001
  
  This is annoying, comparing siraichaalai and hey ram with lagaan. Siraichaalai was a damn good movie with all good ( even excellent )technical aspects. The songs were pretty good and apt for the situations. It just fits the scenes they are meant to be. What i think as the reason for the failure in North India, becos of non-familiar faces, IMHO. And too the movie is based on the real stories and it's not a jolly-go around movie like Lagaan. I mean the subject of the movie was too heavy. The entire crew had done a neat job of doing that. IMHO, shooting at the "cellular jail" is not as easy as shooting a cricket game. And musicwise, Siraichaalai's BGM is beyond comparision. It actually lifts the film. And songs too, "sempoovae, poovae", "Aalolangili", "mannan koorai chaelai( mesmerising one..)","suttum sudar vizhi" all these songs are really good.
  
  Reg HeyRam, as kamal said in some interviews, becos of the problem with L.Subramanian, kamal finally came to IR for entire help. IR did music for the scenes that were filmed already. Just imagine how hard it was!!! And IMHO, the songs are not bad at all. "Ram, Ram", Nee paartha paarvaikku", Isaiyil Thodanguthammaa", and the usage of "aandaal paasuram" everything is fine. And reg BGM, the movie said it all. As Bharath pointed out, "sollama neriya solluvathu Hey ram Padam thaan" That's true. As a director KAMAL did an excellent job. ( even as an actor ). Somtimes, u dont know the reason behind the success and failure of movies. Actors like kamal dare to take these kind of ventures and sure IR too...
  
  Without knowing anything, please, just dont compare the things. It hurts a lot...
  
  
  
• From: Dorai (@ 12.144.36.2) on: Tue Oct 23 15:39:00 EDT 2001
  
  Velramanan,
  I saw your compilation of all different people's opinion on IR very interesting. Can you please elaborate on the Chinna Gownder BGM composition. Can you tell me what scene it is and how did IR correct it with his composition.
  
  

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