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Everything you always wanted to talk about ARR vs. IR but were afraid..

Topic started by rajaG (@ daecfp01.sprint.com) on Wed Aug 18 17:12:52 EDT 1999.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Too many posters are using other topics to discuss/slam/comment/praise IR/ARR that I thought we could use this one thread as a catch all for all those posts. Welcome guys!!!

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: vanjapugazhchchi (@ 202.54.71.157) on: Sat Aug 21 08:32:14 EDT 1999
  
  Srikanth!
  Thanks for your nice discovery of TFM!
  
  Every soul in TN was crying for innovation in film music right from 1977, when abruptly the creativity in TFM -hitherto held high by the likes of Mellisai Mannar- was killed by one nattuppuraththaan, thus leading to a longgggg `dark age'.
  
  Wow, the dawn at last in 1992, and the great-ever creator/innovator of rhythm pattern has arrived in the form of cyclone, wiping out every tear from the crying soul of TN! Innovation has started flowing in and all the faces are full of shine!
  
  Well, who bothers about that nattupuraththan who has kept the Thamizhs under a spell for such a long period, forget that dark age!
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ proxy2-external.moline1.il.home.com) on: Sat Aug 21 09:03:44 EDT 1999
  
  Vanjapugzchi;
  
  "Every soul in TN was crying for innovation in film music right from 1977, when abruptly the creativity in TFM -hitherto held high by the likes of Mellisai Mannar- was killed by one nattuppuraththaan"
  
  my cousin who is 12 years old says,
  Every soul in TN (India) was crying for innovation in film music right from 1992
  when abruptly the creativity in TFM -hitherto held high by the likes of nattuppuraththaan was
  killed by a wizkid called ARRahman.
  --- What do you say?
  If we are discussing name and fame , any day ARr is the winner. Calling the age before raja was a dark age shows the ignorence of ir fans, kinatru thavalaigal. Mind it world thinks differntly.
  
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ proxy2-external.moline1.il.home.com) on: Sat Aug 21 09:15:21 EDT 1999
  
  raja-veti; whats your actual name?
  ....
  brigas: one of the most interesting aspect of indian music.
  Lets take our abogi example.
  ---the pallavi ends as sabaieinar munne-- a arc note is placed between "sabaienar and munne "
  the notes is slightly pulled or twisted or curved.
  all most all the last few lines of each para has a new briga, check the variations MSV gives for the word "munne". This one of the best aspect of MSV's score.
  
  Also there is often 2 tunes for the pallavi end.
  check out with Nan aaanai ital --- the last line avar kanner kadalile vidamaatar has two tunes.
  these kinds of musical aspects are not found in Raja song.
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ proxy1-external.moline1.il.home.com) on: Sat Aug 21 09:34:05 EDT 1999
  
  RajaVetti;
  Kuyile Kuulle--- it stops at "le" no brigas at all
  
  take nilave enidam neruganthe--- see the song flow. Take padum pothu nan thendral kaatru --- you see the flow you asked for.
  
  
• From: Sabesan (@ 152-ppp-a.tnt09.agis.net) on: Sat Aug 21 12:21:49 EDT 1999
  
  hello Srikanth.... "for arguments sake" appadinu solli yaraa yarooda compare panreenga.... hmmm onu mattum nitchayam Srikanth, i can't find any difference between a HCIRF saying "IR is GOD" etc etc and you saying "IR has not done anything new".... wait wait, u may have ur gnanams to prove it, certainly i don't want to argue on it.... so iam leaving at that point, and people know if anyone has done anything new or not....
  
  and as far as "wizkid killing nattupurathan", i will not agree that the "wizkid" killed "nattupurathan".... may be the "wizkid" wokeup the "nattupurathan"..... i remember reading somewhere in TFM saying "ARR not only created a fresh wave, but he also woke up IR"..... i 100% agree with that.....
  
  and as far as name and fame, again i agree ARR is the winner, because he knows how to market himself... man what are we talking here.... its a different age now.... when IR came to the field, i remember AIR not playing many of his songs at all... and the hell, did we really have a TV network, that would reach the mass???? we just had taperecorders only in some houses.... radio was the common media.... and that too was not supporting many of IR songs at all... and how in the hell do u expect the man to be famous.... but still did'nt he prove that he is (may be WAS) the KING of the music industry at that period... well, he is not a good marketer of himself like others and he does have a lot and lot of self-ego (which obviously everyone of us have)...
  
  ok Srikanth anyway thanks for keeping this thread very very active, and at the same time thanks a lot for the information u have been giving (but sathiamma enaaakku onnum purialla:-).... hey wait iam blaming myself.... sangeethathukum enakum rombaaa thoooraaaam).....
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.22.112) on: Sat Aug 21 16:26:03 EDT 1999
  
  Srikanth:
  
  Mind it world thinks differently (cool down, idhu naan sollalai, neenga sonnathu thaan :-))
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.22.246) on: Sat Aug 21 17:47:26 EDT 1999
  
  Srikanth,
  Vanjapugazchi was giving a sarcastic comment i believe. he has actuall said that the age of IR was the dark age which was brought to an end by IR and i think you have taken the meaning wrongly;)) i guess he is a HCIRF.
  
  
• From: Pala (@ proxy.primus.com.au) on: Sun Aug 22 07:16:57 EDT 1999
  
  Interesting to see how bickering,calling names and mudslinging has tken over in this thread.I'm a toddler to the TFM sites.It is digusting to see people in good profession are being subjected to this type of uncalled for attacks on them.
  Both IR and ARR good and talented in their own field of expertise.
  IR served what was approprite at his time.
  ARR is seving for the present younger generation.The teenagegers seem to prefer ARR music;that does not discredit IR music.
  One should not forget that as time changes,the public would want to see changes to adapt the then existing trend.
  Having Fans is goog and healthy!
  Having Hard C. Fans can lead to Fanaticism.
  
  
• From: SM (@ pmnat01-p23.sgum.mci.com) on: Sun Aug 22 21:45:38 EDT 1999
  
  SR,
  
  > established the fact that there was no one like
  > him before and no one in the future could do
  > what he was doing
  
  In the future? Are you God or are you the one people call Nostradamus? IR is a great composer. If you say he is the best and place your arguments based on that, that is logical. Futurela kooda yaaraalayum avara maadhiri vara mudiyaadhunnu solradhu, sorry, argumentukku othu varaadhu. It is just another sweeping statement.
  
  
• From: Raja Fan (@ spider-wg071.proxy.aol.com) on: Mon Aug 23 00:22:15 EDT 1999
  
  IR is a phenomenon comparabale to Ramanujan in Math. It is true that Ramanujan discovered a whole century of European mathematics all by himself and in the process discovered so much more that many mathematicians could not comprehend his math for some decades. Ramanujans math is considered like a garden where there are numerous blooming flowers and so much more left for other mathematicians to discover. This is the case with IR too. He has discovered or rather invented a whole new way of creating and presenting orchestrated music that it will take a few decades before the fruits of his very hard and dedicated labour will be fully appreciated by a genuine musical thinker (btw, very few in this forum and in today's generation, unfortunately.)
  
  I don't believe there is no comparison for IR, other than Bach or Beethoven or Mozart. IR has taken music to a whole new dimension and small minded film music lovers cannot see that infinite and incomprehensible dimension.
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ proxy1-external.moline1.il.home.com) on: Mon Aug 23 08:31:28 EDT 1999
  
  LOL....
  
  "IR is a phenomenon comparabale to Ramanujan in Math' --- idhudan da Bakthi...
  
  "other than Bach or Beethoven or Mozart. "
  so you know only 3 composers other than IR....
  
  ...seripu varudu seripu varudu paadika padkika seripu varudhu......
  
  
• From: Ravy (@ eagle.vapower.com) on: Mon Aug 23 08:44:15 EDT 1999
  
  Super-imposing of voices in En KaNmani (Chittukuruvi) and KandEn engum poomagaL (KVG). This technique may be considered trivial today, but sounded fresh back then in the late 70's.
  
  
• From: V. balaji (@ webproxy03qfe0.sbi.com) on: Mon Aug 23 08:56:20 EDT 1999
  
  Super-imposing was often heard in HFM; especially RDB in 'Jaane Jaan..', 'Dummara Dum ..'
  
  IR has done so many great things and let's not bestow on him on things for which he may not be first to do so.(???.. somehow this line sounds incorrect gramtically)
  
  V. Balaji
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ proxy1-external.moline1.il.home.com) on: Mon Aug 23 13:17:46 EDT 1999
  
  Guys,
  
  'He has discovered or rather invented a whole new way of creating and presenting orchestrated music "
  
  ---- enge nimatheee, mella nada mella nada, ulagam, inbame --- all these songs have great orchestration ever composed. Remember -- orchestrated music was designed and developed by Mellisai Mannar. Raja already had a reference, he just enhanced it.
  
  
  ---> whats happing where is the new things list. Echo, superimposing are all technical recording gimmicks (thanks for easy words -provided by IR fans for ARR's work).
  
  We are talking about something new in music.
  But we are getting only free archanai tickets.
  
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ mail.startec.net) on: Mon Aug 23 14:08:59 EDT 1999
  
  "IR is a phenomenon comparabale to Ramanujan in Math' --- idhudan da Bakthi...
  
  Thappu Srikanth, thappu !
  
  enge nimatheee, mella nada mella nada, ulagam, inbame --- all these songs have great orchestration ever composed. Remember -- orchestrated music was designed and developed by Mellisai Mannar. Raja already had a reference, he just enhanced it.
  
  Ithu thaan Bhakthi !
  
  Neenga yen MSV kitta Light Music-a patent panna sollala ? After all, avar thaane kandu pidichaar ! Yosichchu paarunga ! If MSV had patented Light Music, IR-oda 750+ moviesukkum MSV-kku thaan credit kidachirukkum ! Appa avar aalu-address illaama kaanama poyirukka maatar :-)
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.25.76) on: Mon Aug 23 14:13:14 EDT 1999
  
  Well some of the thinhs that I think Raja did for TFM which others before him have'nt done as well:
  
  1. Thanx to Raja the term 'Re-Recording' is popular now.For the first time we hear people begging for BGM tracks from films like Idhayathai Thirudathe, Mouna Raagam etc.
  
  2. He made people take notice of his BGM for songs and made them feel how interludes are important for a song. Iam sure Srikanth can come up with a lot of examples for MSV but still IR is the undisputed king of orchestration and interlude music. Songs like paruvame enthrall listeners due to their interludes alone. MSV's interludes were very short and he also used to repeat interludes like in 'paartha gnyaabagam illayo'.
  
  3. Folk and dappanguthu type music was glorified in the raja era, even though he was crticised earlier in his career as just a folk or 'dappanguthu' musician.
  
  4. He attempted the new venture of composing non-filmi western classical albums like HTNI, which eventually caught the attention of musicians worldwide.
  
  5. Orchestration was also a strong point for raja.
  
  how many composers can boast of the orchestration present in songs like 'aruna ghirana', 'raakamma kaiya thattu' etc. the list of instruments he has used is mind-boggling. and from what i have heard it seems raja would bring some odd looking drums or dabbas and ask his musicians to do percussion with them.
  
  we are talking of flutes, violins and guitars mainly due to IR.
  
  Note, I have not talked about any tehnical aspects here as I feel that there would be better guys out there who can do the same. from an avid TFM listener point of view, i have put forth my thoughts across.
  
  
• From: hari (@ hud04a01.ml.com) on: Mon Aug 23 15:11:56 EDT 1999
  
  srikanth,
  It looks like, for a change , we have HCMSVF. First, for your question, whether IR never did any new thing, what MSV has done?. MSV did get inspired a lot from 50's hindi music and from people like GR and others. I read somewhere that old hindi MD chitra gupta clamiing that he discovered rock & roll before west did. Your statement sound as st...(:-) like that.
  Regarding your statement that IR beats are mechanical - this is surprising from a knowlegable person like you. Except the late 80s' when IR started giving lot of those run of the mill village type song, his percussion was always very innovative. Only few songs MSV ever succeeded in giving some new beats, that too most of them are in late 70s. Most of the song, I felt tabla never matched with the flow of the song, Pl Listen to kamban embanden or mella verum kattru. MSV had some stupid idea that when ever the saranam changes, he had to change the talam. IR infact broke all this fixed rules.
  
  e.hari
  
  

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