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Why IR is against VM ..?

Topic started by Ramani (@ gatekeeper.wipsys.soft.net) on Mon Sep 28 08:43:56 EDT 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

This posting covers two topics ;-)
In y'day's function at Chennai for Kalaignar,
IR sung(read) a self composed song 'thanE thanE
thanthaanE.. thannaith thamizukku thanthaanE''
Before reading some verses, he passed on some sharp
remarks indirectly against VM ..
Why this sudden anti-VM outbust..? and that too in a
public function..? (his brother GAmaran has been doing
this through magazines for quite some time)

VM was seen sitting in some 3rd row..with a deserted look
(usually he looks cheerful in Kalaignar functions)

God knows why such a great combo is still at loggerheads..
Hopefully B.raja or KB bring them together again.
9 out of 10 dances in that program were of ARR's..
(compered by GA and Oorvasi).. It must have been
shocking for IR to see that ARR's songs only are used
for all dances nowadays in any stage. Could be the reason
why Rajini chose ARR for Padaiyappa.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: ~good (@ 200-236-186.ipt.aol.com) on: Wed Sep 30 10:57:49 EDT 1998
  
  Srikanth:
  
  
  Again you've dragged MSV and ARR into this topic. Thankyou for making this thread to one more IR Vs MD X.
  
  Keep doing, Srikanth. :-))
  
  (Do you expect me to reply for your comments? I am not that stupid)
  
  (No offense intended, just a simili)
  
  me, too.
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Wed Sep 30 13:59:41 EDT 1998
  
  Na Kaamarasan and others must have realised that IR can expose their various levels of incompetency, so they stopped composing!!
  
  Atleast you are straightforward in calling yourself an IRFan, I salute that. Now, why can't your idol own up to his share in vulagarity is my question which still hasn't been answered. He okayed songs with incestuous and suggestive lyrics, and the faithful keep coming up with his great contribution to TFM. I never argued his greatness in composition. I'm greatful for his amazing output. If one sorts through my entire collection of 122 CDs and 200+ tapes, a majority of them are by IR. None of this covers the fact that IR did greenlight several cheap, distasteful, unimaginative songs. Since MSV, no MD in TFM is exempt from composing for sick lyrics. If IR fans can't accept this then this argument will remain unsettled. My stance is the same, seems like you guys are sticking to IR has the right to be a hypocrate. Let's leave it at that. There's no way either side is going to relent because we have begun to argue musical taste again, and not an individual's right to make a certain statement. Adios, I'm out of this thread.
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ proxy1.dpn.deere.com) on: Wed Sep 30 14:15:53 EDT 1998
  
  Hi
  Exaclty Udhaya:
  I just gave an example of MSV and ARR as I dont consider DEVA and the gang as musicians, others dont have stds to be compared with Raja Mr.~good did ponder the essence of my quesition or the posting. Anyway Now I feel sorry for bringup thier names.I also out of this thread as this is becoming a musical taste!...
  
  BTW :I Just thanked AnandaVikitan for writing about our TFM page. IF DEVA etc OR ARR READS our reviews they will stop copying or atleast think twice before doing it.
  Srikanth
  
  Srikanth
  
  
  
  
  
• From: SR Kaushik (@ nova1.cs.wisc.edu) on: Wed Sep 30 14:59:26 EDT 1998
  
  I don't think its true that IR refuses to compose for given lyrics. The lyricist C.Narayani Reddy (Telugu) said in an interview that for the movie "Swathimukthyam", IR had originally given a different tune for the song "Laali laali" but Reddy was unable to come up with lyrics for it. When he gave the new lyrics, IR changed his tune to suit it. Moreover, I think it is supposed to be easier to comose for ready lyrics than otherwise, and I would take what is written above regarding IR with a pinch of salt.
  
  Also, IR has often said that the lyrics are a limitation for his songs. So its not that he okays bad lyrics because he likes them.
  
  
• From: nesan (@ sdn-ar-001txfworp114.dialsprint.net) on: Wed Sep 30 17:27:02 EDT 1998
  
  Hi Guys,
  The reason that MSV didnt give us bad lyrics songs is that there was no LIKE VM or other so called poets at that time. Every one had a good knowledge and interest in Tamil as well as in music.
  Even if MSV compose muscic now, the output will be same as others (with junk meanings). That (lack of poets) maybe the reason that MSV stopped music.
  IMO, there is nothing that a MD do regarding lyrics other than stop composing.
  
  thanks,
  nesan
  
  
• From: Ravi K. S. Ravichandran (@ ctsasync51.cc.utah.edu) on: Sat Oct 3 00:41:37 EDT 1998
  
  Hi Folks:
  
  I am another longterm fan of Ilayaraja. I like very much MSV and ARR. But it seems to me that there is a basic fact in music composition: that is, for something to sound pleasing, it must have a rhythm and melody properly intertwined. So a music director, such as Ilayaraja have to set the rhythm and the melody on the basis of a given raga that he thinks that would suit the situation. The job of the Lyricist such as Vairamuthu or Kannadasan, is to find proper sequence of words that convey the meaning of the situation, at the sametime using the best choice of words or "Ethugai" and "Monai". Therefore, it seems to me that the burden is more on the part of Lyricist, to come up with the proper wording of the song.
  
  I think that this is where the rift between IR and Vairamuthu began. IR, I think was particular about his melody and rhythm and Vairamuthu was sort of unhappy about having to twist his words to fit the rhythm (Obviously, he would be sad about this, becuase if he is forced to pick the words to suit the rhythm or "ethugai" and "monau" then he propably feels sort of lost in hus lyrics!.
  
  When Kannadasan and MV were a good combination it seems to me they sort of sacrificed their territories a bit so that they can come up with a good song that is rhythmic and meaningful at the same time. I have heard songs where Kannadasan's words were struggling in MSV's music and where MSV was sort of lost to fit the music to Kannasan's malestic words in the song.
  
  Therefore, it seems to me, unfortunately, with IR unyielding, Vairamuthu is sort of "sour grapes" about Ilayaraja. It seems to me that is why he said, early in their rift, the his "words" are crushed by IR's music and he felt unhappy about it.
  
  It seems that there is no way out of this situation. It seems, it is a matter of both IR and VM unyielding their territories!
  
  BY the way IR's early hits that brought to him to the limelight were based on songs written by his brother, Gangai Amaran, M.G. Vallabanm Vali, Kannadasan and even Pulamipittan as well as Muthulingham. I tend to respect IR more, because his tendency to work with others is much better that VR, since he had made practically everyone to write lyrics to his music, as well as he had arranged to have everyone to sing in his songs, including AM Raja, Jikki, PB Srinivas, TMS, Suseela, Latha Mangeshkar, Kamal, Vani Jayaram, etc. I think the only ones that did not sing for IR are LR Eswari, KP Mahalingham, Chandrabose, Sirhazhi Govindarajan, since many of these were out of the picture. I would love to here these excellent singers, especially LRE, to sing in IR's songs.
  
  Therefore to close, it seems to me VM is probably is less forthcoming as IR and he probably shares most of the blame than IR for them not working together. Remember, both TMS and Vani Jayaram, had made some publicly negative remarks about IR, so IR was pissed of about them and never had them sing in his songs.
  
  IR's record shows his magnanimity and respect for others such as MSV and his GURU G.K. Venkatesh. It is unfortunate that many of the other "egos" of the Tamil Film industry look unjustifyably at IR as something of an autocrat, these days! What a pity!
  
  Ravi K. S. Ravichandran
  
  
• From: kitty (@ giasmda.vsnl.net.in) on: Sun Oct 4 14:12:39 EDT 1998
  
  I would listen to Ilaiyaraaja's song withour lyrics !.. at lease I don't care for lyrics.
  Further I don't think that IR needs an algorithmic lyricist (nowadays) like VM.
  
  
• From: The Fan (@ spider-tr052.proxy.aol.com) on: Sun Oct 4 16:34:30 EDT 1998
  
  KSR: Sirgazhi did sing for IR in 'Badrakali' Your comments are exactly right about IR'relationship with others. He is humility and genius reincarnate.
  
  
• From: Dev Mannemela (@ tide75.microsoft.com) on: Mon Oct 5 15:17:40 EDT 1998
  
  Hi Ravi,
  
  What comments did Vani Jayaram make, about IR ?
  I am curious..
  
  Thanks !
  Dev
  
  
• From: Dorairaj.Pichaiyan@ey.com (@ gateway7.ey.com) on: Mon Oct 5 16:59:06 EDT 1998
  
  I would like to state the fact here that even after TMS made some critical remarks about IR music (like Erumaikannukutti Kathal maadri Eruku), he kept giving some excellent songs to TMS. Eg,
  Pzhaya Padal Polla Puthiya Padal ellai (in the tune of Unai ondru ketpan) as so on.
  
  I infact remember IR commenting about TMS singing in a Light Music concert in singapore. He said "TMS is the only singer that I know who gives the most complete emotion in his songs. We can make out whether he is singing a sorrowful song or a joyfull song from his voice. He is the only singer who does it to the best".
  
  This shows that IR does not hesitate to praise even his wort critics and honor them.
  
  
  
  
  
• From: kumar (@ blrp49.verifone.com) on: Wed Oct 7 04:42:24 EDT 1998
  
  off the topic!!!:((
  
  why worried abt 9/10 is arr's? the dance master (madam??!) kala hasnt choreoed none of those songs
  in movie! she is not confident about her own songs
  why will i ever bother her selection! see sapata swarangal in suntv a popular selective singers show 7/10 are IR's songs..provided they are not
  stressed upon a artist.
  raja's songs
  
  
• From: Sriram (@ bbn-cache-1.cisco.com) on: Fri Oct 9 09:48:42 EDT 1998
  
  VM - Atheist,Craving for Popularity,Wants to establish that the quality of his words are superior to any body's music, always assertive .....
  
  IR - Pious,prefers solitude, thinks that music is beyond language and country barriers.......
  
  How do you all expect two such personalities to come together and produce a song
  
  
• From: shankar (@ webgate0.mot.com) on: Sat Oct 10 05:32:29 EDT 1998
  
  Sriram,
  U left arrogance in VMs qualities
  
  
• From: Murali Sankar (@ 129.252.23.228) on: Sun Oct 11 02:27:33 EDT 1998
  
  TMS is supposed to have abused IR by the name of the caste. i read it in Vaaramalar.
  
  Regards
  
  Murali Sankar
  
  
• From: shankar (@ webgate0.mot.com) on: Mon Oct 12 03:13:52 EDT 1998
  
  Murali,
  TMS and guys like Na.kAmarAsan are in their fag end of their career.They don't have anything to do except eating and sleeping. Just for the publicity sake they are passing some derogatory comments on successful people ,since they have nothing to lose.
  
  if u haven't read that interview by Na.kA...
  
  He had said that kambar's ramayana is nothing bfore what he's writing at present and KD and others are novices bfore him and all that crap.
  He addresses them "avan" ivan" etc.
  
  So, the best thing to do is to turn a deaf ear to such comments passed by "vetti" guys, who will do anything for cheap publicity.
  
  

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