Topic started by lk (@ 210.210.36.54) on Sat Apr 24 10:07:58 EDT 2004.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.
Karthikeyan Nagarajan | April 24, 2004 11:12 IST
http://in.rediff.com/movies/2004/apr/24rahman.htm
When I heard that the City of Birmingham Symphony Orchestra had asked A R Rahman to conduct two live concerts in March this year, I was very happy and proud as an Indian and a Tamilian.
Earlier, I had felt proud in 1993 when Ilayaraja had recorded his first classical orchestral work with the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra of London. I was executive producer of that project.
It was Ilayaraja's first full-fledged classical work and it was recorded under the baton of John Scott. Unfortunately, Ilayaraja has still not released that work.
Hence to know that another composer from our midst has come to the world music arena was thrilling news. Rarely do musicians from our part of the world get such an opportunity.
But it was a big fiasco.
Rahman's popular film songs were converted into orchestral scores to be played by a classical symphony orchestra. They proved to be pale shadows of his original songs. And the predominantly Indian crowd did not appreciate them much.
It was obvious that not much thought had gone into the score. The objective should have been to retain the original melodic flavour suited to a symphony orchestra without electronic instruments and vocals.
Greater disappointment was his total non-preparation for conducting on stage. I consider that highly irresponsible. If Rahman thought conducting a symphony orchestra in concert was similar to a studio session, the people who risked allowing him to do it should be blamed.
I am surprised he has not fully understood the importance of the role of a conductor in a classical symphony orchestra.
Conducting is one of the most important aspects in a classical orchestra's live performance. People like Zubin Mehta have not become legends for nothing. Zubin is one of those rare talents who will conduct even the most difficult and complex symphonies like Mahler's 8th Symphony -- called the Symphony of a Thousand because Mahler's original debut concert required nearly 1,000 performers-musicians and choral groups -- without once referring to the score. Every bar of music is conducted from his memory, with total control and confidence of the orchestra.
As someone who has spent a lot of time on the UK music circuit over the last few years, I assumed Rahman would have done his homework and prepared the music as well as for his new role as conductor of a live concert, that too with a top-notch orchestra like the CBSO.
Rahman should have reminded himself that he was going to wield the baton of Sir Simon Rattle, who became CBSO conductor at 25 (in 1980) and made it one of the best orchestras in the world.
As a BBC reviewer wrote, "I cannot help feeling cheated by the concert. Though the orchestra were highly organised, Rahman seemed slightly uninterested to be there. Audience reactions were also mixed. The audiences were given opportunity to ask him questions to which he often replied with one-word answers. Rahman did conduct the orchestra for a short period, but later sat back with the audience and watched another conduct his music."
As with anywhere else in the West, most orchestras are going through a difficult time with dwindling concert attendances and slow music sales. Add to this the problem of population remix among local patrons.
By 2020, for example, Birmingham is tipped to become the first black majority city in UK. Now, its population is a mix of Asians, Africans and Chinese apart from the native whites.
Hence, orchestras are ready to try anything to bring people into the concert halls. And collaborations with musicians from Asia, titled Classic Asia, are part of the mission.
For the 84 year-old CBSO, it must have been a momentous, difficult decision. They took it because their survival depends on their ability to chart new paths.
With his exposure to the UK music industry through his collaboration with Andrew Lloyd Webber, it was not a surprise that Rahman got the project.
But his botching it up is.
I believe Rahman has not been able to transcend the barrier where his own singing and others are vital for his musical pieces. Obviously, there is an inability to compose music free of the composer/performer. He seems to have attempted something for which he is not yet ready intellectually.
In the end it was totally disappointing.
Rahman's confession -- "I messed it up. Will come next time with much more preparation" -- does not redeem him at all.
Karthikeyan Nagarajan is a Chennai-based software technologist.
Responses:
- Old responses
- From: Wondering (@ 207.43.195.201)
on: Thu Apr 29 17:31:30 EDT 2004
"WCM and ARR goes together Icecream mixed with onion"
Thanks American Idol Simon
- From: Wondering (@ 207.43.195.201)
on: Thu Apr 29 17:36:25 EDT 2004
Maddy:
I myself cannot comprehend ARR music rated as original!!! how can the people in UK used to pure WCM tolerate ARR's crap music. Do u think its appropriate to send Deva to Thygaraja Aradhana and sing kavalaipadathae sagodhara? if u don't think so, then ARR is in a wrong place scoring wrong music.
- From: ambleen (@ 203.117.10.18)
on: Fri Apr 30 00:56:01 EDT 2004
"and do you think getting international recognition is like getting 'Kadalai urundai'..if ARR didn't deserve it he would not have got it..that's for sure."
wat international recognittion u tokin abt?
u mean westerners listening to his music in their home or discman?
WOHE went without a trace(the score)
Bombay dreams in London is patronised mostly by indians.
Yes may be he got more recognised for scre*wing up a renowned ochchestra. That's for sure.
- From: Thamizhan (@ 61.2.224.118)
on: Fri Apr 30 01:29:21 EDT 2004
Shakalaka baby attracted criticism in its London version itself,still wondering what makes ALW stick to that garish number.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/music/easy/reviews/arrahman_bombay.shtml
review of Bombay Dreams London edition.
'....
The real disappointment is that someone with as much talent as Rahman seemed unable to break the free of his producer's spell and produce something that really did translate the glamour of Bollywood onto a West End stage. In fact a vast amount of talent seems to have been wasted in giving us just another one for the tourists.
Reviewer: Chris Jones.....'
Ambleen,I and other Rahman fans interpret this fragment in one way,you will do it another way..what's that? Let me know.
But still wondering what makes Rahman to select some of his worst tracks for such musicals(eg...from 1 2 ka 4,he selected one track and put it as 'Are you sure want to be famous ',did Rahman do it,or ALW chose it remains a mystery)
For me Rahman appears as a person who needs 'some' more finesse to live up to the expectations,and not as an empty vessel as you ppl try to make out.
- From: Thamizhan (@ 61.1.200.158)
on: Fri Apr 30 01:53:21 EDT 2004
//I myself cannot comprehend ARR music rated as original!!! how can the people in UK used to pure WCM tolerate ARR's crap music. Do u think its appropriate to send Deva to Thygaraja Aradhana and sing kavalaipadathae sagodhara? if u don't think so, then ARR is in a wrong place scoring wrong music.
//
You seem to be blissfully unaware of the very idea of that musical,its named as 'Bombay Dreams ' got it?
not London Dreams....and its intent is not to showcase WCM(for that they have so much talent in their homeland,...don't worry they won't call IR also for it)
The show was organised with the idea of showing the essence of Bollywood music(not again Indian classicals) to the west end,but largely the effort to transform glamorous Bollywood to a West-end stage collapsed miserably due to various factors..ARR could have done the tracks from the scratch,instead of Re-using..(but re-using was insisted by ALW)..still the Qawali number and the 'Chaiya chaiya' was widely appreciated.
Finally your metaphor(???) Deva and thyagaraja aradhana with ARR and Bombay Dreams sucks big time.
- From: Thamizhan (@ 61.1.200.158)
on: Fri Apr 30 02:01:25 EDT 2004
If the intent is to showcase Indian classicals then agin there are talents like Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan etc for Hindustani and many other Carnatic exponents here down south.
Nobody will call ARR or IR for it,both are film composers deriving their tunes from classicals.Their style of derivation absolutely difers and is largely dictated by the need of the celluloid situation and not the knowledge of the MD as in IR's times melody sold(IR was safe)..ARR's times demanded rhythms to sell(that's why you ppl jump like anything)
(you ppl may again make out that IR can also be a classic musician,and all that..well I am not for it)
- From: fmlover (@ 61.247.240.74)
on: Fri Apr 30 03:54:57 EDT 2004
WOHE went without a trace???....HAHAHA...
it got rave reviews my friend from all Chinese Dailies and many other magazines. Get yourself updated.
and wut else do u expect from a Movie soundtrack?....
by the way, Sony is releasing it as an international classical album all over the world. check out www.arrahman.com
anyway, im not saying this to convince you that WOHE was top class...n stuff. Its not quite possible...and I need not.
Go get a life. and keep aside your hatred and fanaticism. God bless you.
- From: paran (@ 202.172.56.114)
on: Fri Apr 30 04:42:12 EDT 2004
"Bombay dreams in London is patronised mostly by indians."
oooh is it?!!!!???!!!
i thot that happened only for the first few months...later it was more than Whities than indians....
- From: mir (@ 220.247.254.27)
on: Fri Apr 30 05:17:54 EDT 2004
Mr Ambleen
Dont you think that there should be a limit to your hatred, Jealousy towards ARR. My god! I cant believe this man. WOHE may not be a master piece for you. But its really rude to under-estimate it just because its composed by ARR. Why should it make you so happy even if WOHE went without a trace? As a tamilian shouldnt you be sad instead of being happy if WOHE fails. Had YSR or HJ composed WOHE and if it flopped, would you feel the same?
What really made you to hate him this much. That shock he gave you in 1992 or a personal matter? If your reason is his music style , then why all other MD's escape easily from your bombardment.
- From: (@ 210.214.228.157)
on: Fri Apr 30 05:27:57 EDT 2004
AMBLEEN and Others who suffer Vayatherical.
-------
You guys are talking about one mistake from ARR, ya its a mistake and we accept.
It only took one film for ARR to get a national award, it took 8 years for IR to get one.
who was the loser? IR.
ARR's music is heard all over India, IR is heard only in 4 southern states, IR couldn't make the rest of india listen to his tune.
IR a sore loser.
ARR is been reported as the worlds largest selling artist, ARR did only 1/8 th of what IR did.
IR a loser again.
IR conducted his symphony, but didnt release it, was there anyone to buy his work.
IR is a horrible loser again.
ARR made andrew llyod webber promote him, even Maniratnam, subash ghai, sanjay lela bhansali are not willing to promote IR.
IR - a pathetic loser.
IR's hope to get national recognition by hey ram went unnoticed, IR a loser again.
IR never could not break the cultural barrier.
IR needs to resort to begging and charity to do his symphony, no audio company is interested in his work, tell me IR maniacs - Did shakesphere beg to write his works?
You call him the best MD in India, i don't have a problem afterall its a good joke.
Poor souls you need to resort to some cheap comparisons to ridicule a man who has gone places.
Hopeless people.
Vayaterichal pattu pattu savunga, rest of us will watch it.
---"Bombay dreams in London is patronised mostly by indians. "
Even tamilians and indians are not patronising IR.
recent example was konji pesalam and kamarajar.
--- wat international recognittion u tokin abt?
IR fans who are used to their hero staying in south indian music will not understand what international recognition is all about?
Go to your gramam tea kadai and listen to IR songs.
--- WOHE went without a trace(the score)
it will take a long time for grama vasis like you to read news from web ... hahahahahaha.
ARR doesnt deserve the mozart of madras title, what about IR does he deserve all the titles such pithamagan of music, isai nyani, raga devan, isai alais Ilayaraja, allowing such publicity shows one thing in clear, he is shameless, also he is too obssesed with his work, now what has it paid him except to beg for his symphony.
Ponga poi Thiruvasakathuku thiru yasakam pannunga. If you think you can stop people from
buying ARR's music just by screaming bad things about him, you are also going to end up as sore losers just like your hero.
Too much of vayatherichal causes blood pressure and acidity, keep an ant-acid syrup handy .... rotfl.
http://www.thiruvasakaminsymphony.com/v_eng.htm
just check out how many people trust IR's music, 6.75 lakhs has been collected as pre publication advance, the project needs 5 crores and look the total amount collected after reducing this 6.75 lakhs.
Pathetic.
add 6.75 lakhs to the total amount collected - still more pathetic, proves IR's music is neither marketable nor classy.
IR fans can do nothing but bad mouth ARR. Carry on hopless people.
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