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Tamil film industry is more of HYPE than substance

Topic started by Khandekar (@ 203.197.129.33) on Mon Jun 21 17:10:09 EDT 1999.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Tamil film industry is more of hype than substance.Sivaji is touted as a great actor when he is more of overacting than of any real acting.
Rajinikanth is regarded as a superstar.What he does is a few gimmicks!and Illayaraja is considered a genius!when he is nowhere compared to SD and RD Burman.Tamil film industry has to get away with hype and look for some substance.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: kiru (@ surf0004.sybase.com) on: Mon Jul 12 22:20:25 EDT 1999
  
  Carnatic music is THE Indian Classical music. Hindustani has too much persian/arab influence. Mridangam is the instrument that has been unearthed in Harappa. This is the reason that the south has much more music sense.
  
  The reason MDs like IR dont click in north because they are too original. They do not have the muslim tinge to their music (yes, ARR's music has that namaaz kind of sound). In the North, inspite of their bad blood with Muslims, this sound is considered part of their land (I can understand).
  
  Since, I dont understand hindi very much I cannot appreciate their lyrics. Still, from the little bit I understand, I think they are good poetically when it comes to romance kind of stuff. (Tamil lyrics in this area gets very technical). Music is not much to write home about but they have a decent repertoire of good melodies.
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ 98cded5a.ipt.aol.com) on: Mon Jul 12 23:37:26 EDT 1999
  
  Kiru:
  Next we'd be asking where "India" starts :-) If IR doesn't have a Muslim tinge to his music, you would atleast agree that he has more than just a dash of Mozart in him :-) Why isn't all of Europe going ga-ga over him yet ? :-)) We did not demarcate the boundaries of the Indian sub-continent and hence our claim to this being "our land" is invalid - it is a purely political issue and we are all here (well, there) because of the Government and Constitution of India.
  
  rajaG:
  Hari has a point. Both my brothers like Hindi music - because it is fast paced, catchy and does not demand that you speak in techno-jargon while discussing any song. For those who know better - who have been fortunate enough to have grown up in an atmosphere which is stingy with its appreciation - the techno-jargon itself is an incentive to listen to more complex music forms. While I hate the ignorance of the average North Indian, I would prefer to treat that as my personal preference rather than a logically debatable issue. It is, therefore it cannot be otherwise. Que Sera, Sera.
  
  
• From: Hello (@ host-209-214-33-156.mco.bellsouth.net) on: Tue Jul 13 08:07:50 EDT 1999
  
  Music taste (like food habits) is very cultivated.
  I do not believe in the theory that music in universal and should appeal to all.
  
  When I was in Calcutta, I had a chance to listen to Rabindera Sangeet and Bengali film music, which sounded very monotonous and sporofic to me. But Bongs go ga-ga over them.
  
  From my experience I have observed that tamils from TN are less exposed to hindi music and they are the ones who trash hindi music the most. Tamils brought up in north do not. Does it not prove that music taste is cultivated.
  
  Ten years back I was a hard core Raja fan. After coming to US and listening to Jazz/Western Classical, I acquired a taste for it and today I like listening to them more than Raja's music. To put it simply, Raja's (and other MDs) music no longer appeal to me.
  
  So guys stop trashing northies for their taste.
  
  
• From: SitaRam (@ portal.ameritech.com) on: Tue Jul 13 11:17:31 EDT 1999
  
  Hello Hello or Hi Hello
  
  I used to listen to western classical and jazz even before I was listening to IR and others. Since I grew up listening to all (name it, sir) kinds of music, I cherish IR and other TFM the most, still I am enthralled by IR. I think you are still floating on the surface of music. I like jazz for some suave moments and western classical to feel grand and sense some sublime moods. but IRs magic is still untouched, buddy
  
  
• From: Geetha (@ gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk) on: Wed Jul 14 09:05:52 EDT 1999
  
  Kiru and Srinath: IR did try the 'Muslim' style and did it very well, the result was "Allah Un Aanai Padi" from Chandraleka(New version). He also did it quite well in "Sorkatthil Nikkah" from Rajasthan!
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.26.181) on: Wed Jul 14 10:18:14 EDT 1999
  
  allah un anai padi- muslim style? with only the beginning words or lyrics, u cannot say it is muslim style.the song is, i believe, set in maaya maalava gowlai and is carnatic style and not muslim style;))
  
  
• From: Geetha (@ gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk) on: Wed Jul 14 12:15:37 EDT 1999
  
  Vijay: The music was very 'Muslim' sounding, the Raga MMG is also used very much by the Muslims. I would definitely say that this is a Muslim style song. MMG may be a Carnatic Raga, but so is Keeravani, these are both used very much in Arabic music.
  
  
• From: Geetha (@ gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk) on: Wed Jul 14 12:23:07 EDT 1999
  
  Vijay: I will also add that I was brought up in a Muslim country and am very farmiliar with the style of music that they adopt. This song definitely swings to that style.
  
  If you want Carnatic Mayamalawagowla, you should listen to Thulasi Dhala, IR did an adaptation in HTNI and see how it compares with Allah Unnaanaipadi!!!!!
  
  Also listen to Poongadave Thal Thiravai from Nizlahhal, Kaadhal Kavidaigal Padithidum from Gopura vaasalile, or Masaru ponne varuga from Devar Magan for a non-muslim MMG.
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.26.181) on: Wed Jul 14 15:34:12 EDT 1999
  
  Geetha,
  i did not think that it was muslim style because:
  
  1. i have heard other songs like 'allah allah' by nagore hanifa, 'allah petra pillai thaane' by SPB etc. the tune and some of the instruments used are very characteristic of 'muslim' style songs which is missing in this IR song
  
  2. Unni's soft voice makes it sound more carnatic.
  
  3. as far as i know,i dont think mayamaalava gowlai has been as frequently used as sindhubhairavi, i might be wrong.
  
  4. the interlude music is mainly composed in synth, and it does not have some of the instruments that are characteristic of 'muslim' style songs.
  
  anyway, i don't wish to discuss this further in this thread. i just wanted to let u know why i felt otherwise, that's all.
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.26.181) on: Wed Jul 14 15:37:36 EDT 1999
  
  BTW,
  did u think that 'gayathri ketkum' from kaakaichiraginile sung by unni and bhava (set in raaga sindhubhairavi) is 'muslim' style?;))
  
  
• From: Geetha (@ gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk) on: Thu Jul 15 12:49:46 EDT 1999
  
  Vijay: Did yuou read my statements at all? When did I mention Sindhubairavhi? When did I say it was used more than MMG? Please answer that.
  
  Secondly, I gave you a list of MMG raga songs which weer NOT in 'Muslim' style and asked you to compare them with Allah un aanai padi. Did you do that? NO, instead, you've mis-interpreted my statements totally!
  
  Please Read my statement again!
  
  The music was very 'Muslim' sounding, the Raga MMG is also used very much by the Muslims. I would definitely say that this is a Muslim style song.
  MMG may be a Carnatic Raga, but so is Keeravani, these are both used very much in Arabic music.
  
  Keeravani, Hemavathi e.t.c are Minor ragas, used a lot by the Arabs, thus making 'Muslim' music. MMG Raga is also used there a lot, if you listen to Arabic muisc, it will definitely have some pieces in MMG. Sindhubairavhi has not featured in their music as far as I know.
  
  I don't understand why you have resorted to mis-quoting me and twisting my words, when all I made was a statement about IR's 'Muslim' style songs as being good. Unni may have a Carnatic sounding voice, but in the 'Allah' song, the Islamic tinge was definitely there, IMO, please don't try and make me look like a fool if you don't agree with my statement, by bringing in Ragas that I didn't mention!
  
  I believe "Sorkathil Nikkah" is also set in MMG Raga, this may re-iterate my point.
  
  
• From: SM (@ nat01smurugap.sgum.mci.com) on: Thu Jul 15 15:05:23 EDT 1999
  
  Geetha,
  
  What about "natta nadu kadal meedhu naan paadum paattu" song from "Chembaruthi". I feel this song too has shades of "Muslim" style.
  
  
• From: kiru (@ surf0004.sybase.com) on: Thu Jul 15 15:57:07 EDT 1999
  
  Srinath,
  I do not want to get into a political debate. But it is a fact that Northern India has more Muslim/Arab influence than the South. This is reflected in their music as well. For that matter, I beleive Hindustani and Carnatic have same roots. It is just that Hindustani has been influenced. I think you are just in a 'vambu pannufying mood' when you talk about Europe not going gaga over IR :-)
  
  I am surprised that not many people are discussing the 'Muslim' angle to ARR's music. Surely, the high pitched singing really gives me that feel. Though it is not blatant as a Nagore Hanifa song.
  
  Geetha's point that MMG and Keeravani are used by Arabs is an interesting point. It is quite possible that this got into the raga repertoire because of their influence. Considering, the whole raga set was formalised only 2 or 3 centuries earlier this is highly likely.
  
  In TN, to give a muslim character to a song, the handheld drum (whats it called ??) is used. ARR just avoids this. Most of ARRs songs are inspired by Middle Eastern melodies. I remember hearing something similar to 'arabic kadalorum' in a Moroccan restaurant. 'Allah Un AAnaippadi' doesn't sound totally muslim to me. It actually sounds like an attempt to merge Muslim/Hindu sounds together ( a arabic kind of instrument+veenai in the orchestration, even the two different choruses in the beginning). 'sorgaththiil nikkAh' sounded ARRish to me because of the 'muslim' character to the song (high pitched singing in the ascent).
  
  Well, all this talk is to explore the reason why IR is not popular in North.
  
  (BTW, I am not rAga savvy, so you guys have to pardon my non-technical talk).
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.28.73) on: Thu Jul 15 17:37:03 EDT 1999
  
  Geetha,
  i never said anywhere in my posting, that it was YOU who mentioned sindhubhairavi . is is just your inference. i have just said that, IMO, MMG has not been used as frequently as sindhubhairavi('yaavum arivaar','allah allah'etc. all these songs are loosely based on sindhubhairavi) in tamil songs.
  this is just MY opinion. iam really sorry if i confused you, since i typed that in haste. well add the follwing statement as point 1 in my above list:
  
  1. I believe sindhubhairavi is the raaga that gives the 'muslim' style and not MMG.
  
  now read my arguments. i hope it gets clear.
  
  But i still do not agree with you;))
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.28.73) on: Thu Jul 15 17:39:23 EDT 1999
  
  Kiru,
  i believe ARR became popular first because of songs from films like roja and rangeela in the north.
  i cannot find any 'muslim' style songs in these 2 albums. what do u think?
  
  

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