Topic started by Music fan (@ 208.154.130.13) on Tue Oct 10 14:34:19 EDT 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.
Dear fans of music
Of late, there have been many threads in this forum discussing about IR and his music in general. I don't deny that. But many have been just discussing his new albums, his new projects or in general very superficial which does not delve much into the analysis of his compositions. Maestro Ilayaraaja is a peerless composer and he is one of the very few to compose around 4000+ songs and compose music for around 800 movies. He writes music and his creations show his ingenuity. In this topic, I request the musically learned people to analyze some of his great works.
As a starter, please analyze the song "thendral vandhu theendum bodhu" from Avatharam. Please let us know the intricacies the Maestro has used to create this number. Since I am a lay man in music, I do not have much to say about this song, except that the song is in the lines of western classical music. The song is harmonious and great to listen to.
Needless to say, I believe this topic is never a waste of time. Not many have the opportunity/skill to analyze a great composer's music. So, on behalf of music lovers and fans I request people to participate here and analyze many of the gems given by Maestro.
Responses:
- Old responses
- From: rjay (@ 208.51.40.112)
on: Thu Oct 12 18:51:57 EDT 2000
Vijay,
That is a nice idea. Actually, I am working on it.
Meanwhile, I have created a basic document so that readers dont have to dig through the old responses. They can see all of it on one page with audio.
Friends, please have a look.
It is at
http://www.geocities.com/rjaymidi/aedho.html
Thanks
RJAY
- From: kishmu (@ 198.102.112.201)
on: Thu Oct 12 18:55:28 EDT 2000
Well, I can answer this one.
Go to http://www.keyboardmag.com and then to "Master CLass". There are numerous MIDI samples that describe each style, and give u tips on how to "jam" over the common chord progressions. There are music notations too for those that know reading music, and they are very interesting to learn. These patterns are used in traditional POP, R&B and other music styles, and MDs in TFM have long incorporated them to suit our taste. Our idea is to build upon them, like jazz is all for improvisation.
To progress step by step, it is a nice idea to learn the terms first - like what staccato, temolo etc means, and come up with examples of their use in TFM. I know this is far from what this thread is intended for, but it is always better to know something first before we start talking about it. Like vijay pointed out, a separate thread on this, and its link on top of this page would be most beneficial. MIDI samples will also be great. Please dont get the idea that Iam preaching here...coz its a common mistake to think little knowledge is enough to understand something and this was what I have been noticing in these threads.
- From: vijay (@ 129.252.23.102)
on: Thu Oct 12 19:01:22 EDT 2000
Kishmu, thanx for the link.
- From: vijay (@ 129.252.23.102)
on: Thu Oct 12 19:01:53 EDT 2000
Rjay,
OK, i'll look into that site.
- From: aruLaracan (@ 134.124.160.10)
on: Thu Oct 12 19:51:57 EDT 2000
rjay,
can you please increase the font size? it's too small to read without getting a head ache :-)
- From: rjay (@ 208.51.40.112)
on: Fri Oct 13 11:03:27 EDT 2000
arul,
Sorry! I thought I had optimized for 800x640 screen. Are you on 1024? Or should I make it bigger still?
rjay
- From: aruLaracan (@ 134.124.160.10)
on: Fri Oct 13 11:33:29 EDT 2000
:-)). yes i am using a 1024 screen :-) yes did read it tho'!
- From: kiru (@ 192.138.149.4)
on: Fri Oct 13 15:50:34 EDT 2000
rjay..I liked the doc..very good. aruLaracan..eat your vitamins :-)
- From: rjay (@ 208.51.40.112)
on: Fri Oct 13 16:11:54 EDT 2000
Thanks Arul, Kiru.
I wanted to quickly point out a major stylistic
feature of Raja and realized that Valaiosai is
the best example of that.
Raja creates Intros BGMs which I would call
songlets. Each songlet has a slow/soft beginning
and a development, a climax and resolution.
Let us take Valaiosai.
the flute intro starts slowly, with long notes. Then when the
harp counterpoints come in, the flute plays
quicker notes until a break (silence) happens.
There has been a beginning, development and climax
and resolution.
Let us take the first BGM. This has three songlets! The keyboard bell like theme, the
guitar theme, string quartet theme. Each has
a climax. Can you see this?
Same in second BGM. Female voice songlet,
followed by String section songlet. can you
spot the begining, build up and climax in each?
This gives a clue into how he builds a interesting
song. He creates 8 to 10 small songlets - each
having a beginning, buildup, climax and resolution.
The techniques he uses to build the climax is
to either bring in new instruments (especially
bass) or most often more chord changes or quicker
notes.
Let us take the Second BGM Lata songlet.
Laala Laaala Laaa Laaa - Laa Laa
Note that this is a beginning. He uses long notes
of same mood throughout. the general melodic
contour is a falling one.
Laala Laala laa laa - laa laa
Here we see a build up. The notes are similar
phrasing (note durations). But the melodic
countour is a rising one. See the increase in
musical tension.
Laa Laa, Laa laa - Laa Laa
Laa Laa, Laa laa - Laa laa
See how distinctly the phrasing is faster
and the melodic contour has risen still
up. And I suspect at least three chords in each of these.
Climax
This structure is seen in many many of Rajas
intros and interludes.
Some more examples:
Poongathavae thazh thiravai - intro strings
Guruvayoorappa - Intro piano.
Try listening to some of Raja's songs
looking for how he builds and releases musical
tension.
- From: Srinath (@ 198.133.22.66)
on: Fri Oct 13 16:15:26 EDT 2000
rjay:
The way you're going. I think you are just going to freak out on "Poongatru" BGMs from Mooram Pirai :) BTW, great doc on Aedho Mogham, loved it !
- From: rjay (@ 208.51.40.112)
on: Fri Oct 13 16:20:17 EDT 2000
Thanks Srinath.
Poongatru review would be great, but small
correction, I dont intend to review many more.
Maybe 4 or 5. TFM readers should be starting to
write those reviews!
- From: rjay (@ 208.51.40.112)
on: Fri Oct 13 16:23:07 EDT 2000
The site
http://www.guitaronemag.com/
has many archived articles on various guitar styles with good examples.
- From: Venkatesh (@ 206.49.110.156)
on: Tue Oct 17 04:10:02 EDT 2000
Can we next take up Naan Thedum Sevvanthi Poovithu from Dharmapathini?
- From: Venki (@ 12.35.64.19)
on: Tue Oct 17 13:13:26 EDT 2000
Venkatesh
Analysing Naan Thedum Sevvanthi Poovithu would be great. I wasn't so curious how songs are made before I heared this song. This is the song which made me go music craze.
Venki
- From: kk (@ 198.4.92.5)
on: Tue Oct 17 15:28:36 EDT 2000
venki me too. its was the one made me crazy for IR.
- From: Paithiyam (@ 198.102.112.201)
on: Tue Oct 17 17:03:17 EDT 2000
I too became mad, and later had to be admitted after listening to the song
- From: Venki (@ 12.35.64.19)
on: Tue Oct 17 17:19:13 EDT 2000
Thanks for your comments Paithiyam, I like comedy tracks like yours.
Venki
- From: cram (@ 206.103.12.102)
on: Wed Oct 18 05:33:22 EDT 2000
each time i listen to "naan thedum", i go hyper. what a song!!! look at the way IR begins: tungtungtungtung tungtungtungtung pampampam paaapam pampam papam ...tootoootooo. phenomenal. pls someone analyse it better.
- From: Venkatesh (@ 206.49.110.156)
on: Wed Oct 18 07:49:04 EDT 2000
I think Naan Thedum... is set to Hindolam. It also resembles another song - Paada vandadho gaanam from Ilamai Kaalangal. An electrifying song with lots of nuances and we need to study it closely.
Where are you rjay?
- From: Linker (@ 208.153.11.100)
on: Wed Oct 18 08:37:04 EDT 2000
Beethoven " target="_top">http://www.infobeat.com/stories/cgi/story.cgi?id=2570638046-e3c">Beethoven
I thought this may be interesting. Sorry for the digression
- From: Linker (@ 208.153.11.100)
on: Wed Oct 18 08:38:27 EDT 2000
Sorry for the sothapals
http://www.infobeat.com/stories/cgi/story.cgi?id=2570638046-e3c
- From: rjay (@ 208.51.40.112)
on: Wed Oct 18 12:33:52 EDT 2000
Naan thaedum
Here are my quick observations: (from memory
playback)
1. Intro:
a) Hindustani Style Alaap by Raja
The song is set in Hindolam which is the same
scale as Malkauns in Hindustani. This Raga
does not have a Pa, and so there is
a majestic serious feel to it. This is
evident in the alapana.
Raja starts with
a high pitched start, an elaboration and a
flow-down in pitch ending. It illustrates a good
range of his voice, with a good deal of emotion. A similar alaapana is in Karnan song. But then
comes the surprise:
b) String section fanfare
The pizzicato strings set an ostinato in three
notes against which the strings play a lavish
slide-heavy theme.
c) Flute break
Raja's trademark flute calls.
2. Pallavi
The pallavi is a catchy variation of
Samaja varagamana, set to a tight tabla rhythm.
The anupallavi flows around well, especially
a variation is sung in "vasam" is very good.
I suspect that around Povom ini kadal desam,
there is a foreign note, which is characteristic
of hindustani singing.
- From: rjay (@ 208.51.40.112)
on: Wed Oct 18 12:48:53 EDT 2000
Anyone know clip of "Naan thaedum" on the web?
- From: vijay (@ 129.252.22.149)
on: Wed Oct 18 15:35:45 EDT 2000
Rjay,
There have been strong accusations of IR singing out of shruthi in all his songs. u havent made any mention of that;))or do u think otherwise?
- From: rjay (@ 208.51.40.112)
on: Wed Oct 18 17:21:34 EDT 2000
When the songs came out, we were all so mesmerized
by his musical skills and the emotion and direct
impact of his singing that we never noticed
the musical imperfections. There are many who
still prefer his singing "Idayam oru kovil" to
SPB version!
You have to tune out the man's personality to notice his imperfections!
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