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Raga of song please

Topic started by Gopal Prasad (@ greed.cs.umass.edu) on Sat May 17 07:42:45 EDT 1997.
All times in EDT +9:30 for IST.

Note: You may want to refer to the list of raga based film songs before posting a query.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Geetha (@ gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk) on: Fri Jun 19 09:37:00 EDT 1998
  
  Shankaran: Thanks for this. It's very hard for me to get hold of Malayalam music here in the UK....Is it available on the net at all? I've still not heard Yathra Mozli and Guru for the same reason. Thanks again, I'll look for it.
  
  
• From: Hari (@ 4037ad.sscl.uwo.ca) on: Fri Jun 19 12:00:54 EDT 1998
  
  Geetha,
  
  There is a scale called Kedar Nat in carnatic music that is a dha varjya derivative of Shankarabharanam (or equivalently Sarasangi). It seems to me that Nee oru kadhal sangeetham is in this scale. Unlike Kedaram or Nalinakanthi, two ragas that use the same notes as Kedar nat, this is not a vakra ragam. There is an occasional dha 2 in nee oru kadhal sangeetham in the charanam, but I think the scale is kedar nat. The song frequently features the phrase ri ga ma ga ri sa, which might indicate this could be in a (new?) vakra ragam. There is also something called kesar nat, which is also allied to kedar nat. I don't know much about that though...
  The Chitra song in Kalapani is also in this scale.
  
  Tilak Kamod is very similar to Nalinakanthi but uses dha2 quite frequently. Its scale is something like:
  
  pa_ ni_ sa ga ri ma pa ni sa
  sa ni pa dha ma ga ri ni sa
  
  Desh is also similar to T.K., but uses ni2 quite frequently...
  
  Hope this helps, rather than confuse matters.
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.29.219) on: Sun Jun 21 13:42:13 EDT 1998
  
  geetha,rajaraaman or anyone,
  could u clarify on my foll queries?
  
  1.is 'khilkte hain ghul yahan' the kishore kumar song from sharmili and 'maalayil yaaro' from chartiyan based on the same raaga as IR claimed?if so it is it suddha dhanyaasi
  
  2.is 'chinna chinna vannakuyil' based on gowri manohari?it sounds similiar to 'kanna varuvaaya' from manadhil urudi vendum.
  
  
• From: badri raghavan (@ 206.103.12.125) on: Mon Jun 22 00:17:58 EDT 1998
  
  nila kaigirathu from the movie indra is based on the raag "Maandu". there is a classical number "muralidhara gopala, mukunda srihari vaikunda"
  also on the same raagam.
  
  i find the discussion on raagas very stimulating and educative.
  
  
  
• From: S.Suresh (@ dwarpal.wipsys.soft.net) on: Mon Jun 22 02:27:24 EDT 1998
  
  Hi Vijay,
  
  I also think Malayil is based on Suddha Danyasi. Maybe "Khilte Hain" is also in the same ragam. I am sure of one thing. These songs are definitely based on a Pentatonic ragam. The Mohanam, Suddha Saveri, Hindlom group.
  
  Badri : I dont think Nila Kaigirathu is MAnd. I have heard a lot of people say that it is Hamir Kalyani. Some say it is Tilak Kamod. Many Rahman songs have this trait. It is very difficult to decide on the ragam.
  
  
• From: Geetha (@ gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk) on: Mon Jun 22 11:01:12 EDT 1998
  
  Hari: Thanks for that information, it's cleared up a lot for me....I too checked some books in the weekend and fund that Tilak Kamod is Hindustani Nalinakanthi, however both Nila Kayhirathu and Nee Oru Kaadhal appear to use Both Madhyamams.
  
  You may be right about a Vakra Ragam, which we'll have to find out about, which takes this type of note form....Your discovery of Kedar Nat seems to be the closest so far.....I'll have to see some Hindustani Books for this.....Here are the swaras from Nila Kaayhirathu.....Do these fit well:
  
  Sa Ma Ga Paa Pa Ma Pa Maa Ga Ma Gaa Ri Sa Ni
  Sa Ma Ga Paa Pa Ma Pa Maa
  Ga Ma Dha Dha Ma Ni Ni Dha Sa Ri Sa Ni Dha Pa
  Ga Ma Dha Dha Ma Ni Ni Dha Ga Ri Sa Ni Dha Pa Ma Ga
  
  The Ma is the Prathi madhyamam in these set of swaras.....hence, I thought of Kamir Kalyan....So, maybe is is Mishra Kedhar Nat?!?!?
  
  
• From: Geetha (@ gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk) on: Mon Jun 22 11:02:02 EDT 1998
  
  Hari: Thanks for that information, it's cleared up a lot for me....I too checked some books in the weekend and fact that Tilak Kamod is Hindustani Nalinakanthi, however both Nila Kayhirathu and Nee Oru Kaadhal appear to use Both Madhyamams.
  
  You may be right about a Vakra Ragam, which we'll have to find out about, which takes this type of note form....Your discovery of Kedar Nat seems to be the closest so far.....I'll have to see some Hindustani Books for this.....Here are the swaras from Nila Kaayhirathu.....Do these fit well:
  
  Sa Ma Ga Paa Pa Ma Pa Maa Ga Ma Gaa Ri Sa Ni
  Sa Ma Ga Paa Pa Ma Pa Maa
  Ga Ma Dha Dha Ma Ni Ni Dha Sa Ri Sa Ni Dha Pa
  Ga Ma Dha Dha Ma Ni Ni Dha Ga Ri Sa Ni Dha Pa Ma Ga
  
  The Ma is the Prathi madhyamam in these set of swaras.....hence, I thought of Kamir Kalyan....So, maybe is is Mishra Kedhar Nat?!?!?
  
  
• From: SRIKANTH (@ 161.225.48.3) on: Mon Jun 22 15:05:23 EDT 1998
  
  HI,
  Vijay : Kil thera 0 is in suddha danyasi.
  This has been already lifted 100% in song...
  Radhaien Nenjame..by V.Kumar or veda I dont remember the MD.
  
  Geetha :
  Regarding the Nambaur singari.... Hindolem...MSV blends light music so perfectly.
  The sitar interludes will sound more perfect...
  If you have a keyboard try playing it.
  Regarding SriRagam ...
  Gangai Yemunai is also based on Sri , but MSV mixes - Nayaki - a little bit.
  I will try to get more..
  
  Does any one know the raga of the humming in Rame andaalum Ravananan andalum in Mulum Mararumm... (le la le le la le )
  (I think I know the answer)
  Srikanth
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  Srikanth
  
  
  
  Srikanth
  
  
• From: Geetha (@ gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk) on: Tue Jun 23 05:11:49 EDT 1998
  
  Srikanth: I'm sorry, I still don't get the connotation of the MSV number.....Are you trying to tell me that it's in Hindholam or what?
  Please clarify. I'm now very interested in hearing the piece itself, is it on your great website?
  
  Thanks for the other Sri ragam piece, again, is there somewhere on the web where I can find it? As far as I know, Nayaki is not too dissimilar to Sri and Madhyamavathi....so, was it Sri, with a few accidentals, as most MD's seem to add, including the Maestro....
  
  
• From: haris (@ 206.103.12.125) on: Tue Jun 23 05:37:52 EDT 1998
  
  Adal kAneerO (MLV) (??) and Adal kalayE devan thandhadhu (kjy)(rAgavEndhar) both are based on ChArukEsi.
  nAdhmenum kOvililE(vj)(manmadha leelai) and nAdham ezhundhadhadi(kjy)(gOpura vAsalilE) both are based on sri ranjani.
  The similarities between the pairs is not only the ragas but also the starting words. The above may give us an insight on how MDs and lyricists go about deciding the raga for a song and the lyrics to start with...
  
  
• From: Geetha (@ gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk) on: Tue Jun 23 07:56:48 EDT 1998
  
  Haris: Excellent observation. Maybe this was the way it was done in the last decade.....Nowadays, look at these:
  
  Abheri - Singaravelane(very old), Janaki Devi, chinnanjiru vayadil enakkOr, nEla vAna odayil nEndukinra, poovE poochoodavA,rAkkammA, guruvayurappa, Poothirukkum Vaname, Shabba Shabba, Kaanodu.....
  
  Reethigowla - Chinna Kannan(oldest in list), Thalaiyai Kuniyum, Raaman Kathai, Meetaatha Oru veenai.....
  
  Keeravani - Keeravani(quite old), Dilruba, Anbe Anbe, Vennilave....
  
  Is there a pattern here in the internal lyrical combination, I wonder? My lyrical understanding is very little, so I don't know if comparisons exist...Do you think only certain lyricists and MD's choose like you've observed? Please update me. Thanks.
  
  By the way, Aadal Kaaneero is an MLV classic. A new song in Charukesi is Engange Engange(Nerrukku Nerr) and I think Alli Sundharavalli(MD IR) is also in Charukesi. More Charukesi's are; chinnathayaval, kAdhalin dEEpam onru, Manmadha Leelaiyai(old), Thoodhu selavadhAradi. A new Sri ranjani is Vaa Sakhi from Arasiyal.
  
  Also, for the Desh query, I forgot to add "Kaatru Kuthiraiyille" from Kadhalan by ARR, it's a short, but beautiful Desh nember. The Kadhal Rojave song from Roja starts off with the Aaaaa in Desh, but then carries on in Kafi, I think.
  
  Vijay: Sorry I can't help, I don't know the songs.
  
  Badri: I can't class Nila Kaahirathu as Mand, as it has the prathi Madhyamam. Please see Hari's detailed description of Kedhar Nat, it seems to fit the bill....S.Suresh is right, it has Hamir Kalyani touches....
  
  
• From: Ramaswamy Gireesan (@ m42.m59.big.ac.at) on: Tue Jun 23 08:10:29 EDT 1998
  
  Srikanth,
  
  I hadnt realised that 'namma Uru' is in Hindolam, thanks for the info. I have been playing that song on my KB for some time.
  
  Geetha, sorry I dont have the song in my collection, otherwise I would have uploaded it right away. Anyway, some more IR songs will go online in the next few days :-)
  
  Srikanth, 'khilthe hain gul yahan' is 'basically' in sudhdha dhanyasi, but :
  
  the very first line 'khilte hain gul yahaan' goes like :
  'p... m1 g2 m1 g2 r2 s'
  
  and near the end of the charanam:
  'chaar pal milen tho aaj' is
  'n2.. d2 n2.. d2 n2.. d2 n2 n2'
  
  I would say this could be Abheri, but to be on the safer side, this songs could be considered to be in the karaharapriya scale. More knowledgeable netters, please clarify.
  
  Regards
  
  G.Ramaswamy
  
  
• From: Geetha (@ gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk) on: Tue Jun 23 09:12:49 EDT 1998
  
  Ramaswamy: No problem, maybe Srikanth will do so?!?!? :) Thanks in advance guys.
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ 161.225.48.3) on: Tue Jun 23 13:59:08 EDT 1998
  
  Hi,
  A (good) news
  I have a program called Film Music and Raagas One hour program by Ragapravagam Sunder...Soon it will feature in my Site..
  I have find time to record and upload it...
  BTW:RG I got your email, I will reply to it ASAP.
  I will also upload nabaur singari....in our MSV channel
  Srikanth
  
  
• From: Geetha (@ gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk) on: Wed Jun 24 05:17:33 EDT 1998
  
  Srikanth: Thanks a lot for that, it's really appreciated....this way, I get to listen to stuff I missed out on in my childhood.
  
  I've heard some cassettes of Film Music and Ragas and they've been very interesting. I'll find out who featured in them for you. One programme I remember covered Gowrimanohari, Sankarabarnam, Sri Ranjani, Bhagayashree and a few more.....
  
  My Dad(he's the old songs buff) and I have done some programmes for Sunrise Radio, London in ragas like Amrithavarshini, Sri Ranjani, Bhagayashree, Gowrimanohari, Desh, Kalyani, Dharmavathi, Madhyamavathi, Mohanam, Suddha Dhanyasi, Abheri, Hindholam, Rare Ragas.....There is the IBC radio, where a lady called Yaso also does this type of programme. It may be available to you on cable, depending where you are. If you're interested, I'll find out the details.
  
  Ramaswamy, Srikanth: By the way, will you be interested in putting some of this material as a collated list on your web page? I'm willing to get information together for you. It's very accurate as it's checked by the Father of Ganseh-Kumaresh(violinists) in India. This way, people can get to hear the songs as well, as you both seem to have great collections of old and new music.
  
  
• From: Geetha (@ gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk) on: Wed Jun 24 05:17:44 EDT 1998
  
  Srikanth: Thanks a lot for that, it's really appreciated....this way, I get to listen to stuff I missed out on in my childhood.
  
  I've heard some cassettes of Film Music and Ragas and they've been very interesting. I'll find out who featured in them for you. One programme I remember covered Gowrimanohari, Sankarabarnam, Sri Ranjani, Bhagayashree and a few more.....
  
  My Dad(he's the old songs buff) and I have done some programmes for Sunrise Radio, London in ragas like Amrithavarshini, Sri Ranjani, Bhagayashree, Gowrimanohari, Desh, Kalyani, Dharmavathi, Madhyamavathi, Mohanam, Suddha Dhanyasi, Abheri, Hindholam, Rare Ragas.....There is the IBC radio, where a lady called Yaso also does this type of programme. It may be available to you on cable, depending where you are. If you're interested, I'll find out the details.
  
  Ramaswamy, Srikanth: By the way, will you be interested in putting some of this material as a collated list on your web page? I'm willing to get information together for you. It's very accurate as it's checked by the Father of Ganseh-Kumaresh(violinists) in India. This way, people can get to hear the songs as well, as you both seem to have great collections of old and new music.
  
  

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