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Compare and Contrast IR's musical style(s), especially with the BGM tracks, with those of composers of Hollywood

Topic started by Music_lover (@ 202.141.98.226) on Wed Apr 28 08:58:08 EDT 2004.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Compare and Contrast IR's musical style(s), especially with the BGM tracks, with those of composers of Hollywood, viz., Maurice Jarre, Henri Mancini, John Williams, Jerry Goldsmith, Bernstein, John Barry, Alan Sylvistri, Danny Elfman, Ennio Morricone, Howard Shore, Hans Zimmer, James Horner and so on

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Music_lover (@ 202.141.98.226) on: Thu May 13 07:59:28 EDT 2004
  
  Osho and Gyan - assuming that some Hollywood composers are getting influenced by IR, the question is, HOW and WHY ?
  
  I cannot just imagine a Hollywood composer going around buying a CD with a 'murukku meesai' Kamal on its cover (Sakalakala Vallavan) from a SFO Bay Area Music store or a LA store !
  
  so the question is WHEN and WHERE and HOW did they get to listen to the scores of IR ?
  
  that would be equally interesting to find out!
  
  
• From: Music_lover (@ 202.141.98.226) on: Thu May 13 08:24:56 EDT 2004
  
  Gyan - I just listened to the Millennium piece - I strongly disagree that it is an inspiration - apart from the spacing between the percussion beats in the beginning, I see absolutely no similarity -
  
  NO - I wouldn't call such things as inspirations -
  
  
• From: Osho (@ 203.197.136.34) on: Thu May 13 08:33:06 EDT 2004
  
  Music_lover, May be we went a bit overboard in saying that it was a influence. But i cant guess how two composers can remarkably come closer to what you call original composition. That doesnt make sense as far as i'm concerned. The initial 30 seconds do resemble "Ilamai idho idho". The rest is in no way associated or influenced by IR's music. Also if you hear greenaway and klaus bedalts(Pirates of Carribean) compostion you will be amused by the similarities they have. Understandably so because i believe both the composers have co-ordinated in the past.
  
  Music_lover, did you hear the Beautiful mind track what do you say about that.
  
  
• From: Srivatsan (@ 136.182.2.222) on: Thu May 13 09:48:20 EDT 2004
  
  Gyan - I completely agree with Muisc_Lover w.r.t to the Millenium peice ... this is not inspiration! But whatever, after you said it, I cannot not think of the the sakalakalavallavan intro when I listen to this song ... guess thats IR 'effect'!
  
  
• From: Srivatsan (@ 136.182.2.222) on: Thu May 13 09:55:53 EDT 2004
  
  ET and Vegam Vegam from Anjali ... films of different generes, different generations one can say, definitely different cultres, but music - wonderfully on the same pattern, subliminally affecting you, giving you a feeling of the space beyond ... IR is absolutely fantastic ... he is far ahead of his time!
  
  
• From: Osho (@ 203.197.136.34) on: Thu May 13 10:11:03 EDT 2004
  
  Music_lover, gyan , Srivatsan can you guys give me some pointer where by we can compare similar movie themes (or musical situations) of hollywood films and that of Indian films where IR has scored music for.
  For example Amistad (John Williams/ Spielberg) with that of Kaalapaani (IR/ Priyadarshan)(some of the scenes atleast and like wise. That will give us a better platform to compare and contrast IRs work.
  
  
• From: Srivatsan (@ 129.188.33.221) on: Thu May 13 10:15:23 EDT 2004
  
  What about 'Kaadhal Oviyam' song from Alaigal Oivadhillai, 'Endha poovilum vaasam undu' from Johny - there is a big hue and cry that IR has 'lifted' this from some composer - Osho enna solreenga? What about the title music of 'Marubadiyum'?
  
  
• From: Osho (@ 203.197.136.34) on: Thu May 13 10:30:12 EDT 2004
  
  Srivatsan, the writing is clear on the wall. You might have heard Dmitry and IR's marupadiyum title (StringsParady). Do you see any similarities. No way! They are distinct and they belong to respective composers. Its the mood both of the tracks generate that is common and thats why i mixed it together.
  Please also hear the "Beautiful Mind" track i mixed. Both of them expose the naive mind of Forrest (Forrest Gump) and Anjali (Anjali). In this case also the composition is original, i.e no inspiration vice versa. I have put down the dates so that after people hearing the tracks shouldnt think that Anjali was influenced by Forrest Gump!!!. Lets take the influence topic away and concentrate on the original intention of the thread.
  
  
• From: Srivatsan (@ 129.188.33.221) on: Thu May 13 10:47:09 EDT 2004
  
  Okay Okay .... I am sorry if I had given a wrong impression ... I had always felt that the Murattukaalai song was amazingly fresh, and it sounds new even now ... just wanted to listen to your opinion about this song ... Is there any composition for a similar situation of hollywood films?
  
  I am not much of a film goer, but I listen to music a lot. So I would not be able to point out film names/composer names but I would love to learn!
  
  
• From: Srivatsan (@ 61.1.200.248) on: Thu May 13 11:49:48 EDT 2004
  
  Osho and Music_Lover, what about the terror and the fear feeling captured in the BGMs of Nooravadhu naal and Poovizhi vaasalile? Osho, continuing on the lines of your posting, can you upload some peices comparing IRs music in this aspect with the west?
  
  
• From: Osho (@ 203.197.136.34) on: Thu May 13 12:06:58 EDT 2004
  
  Prabhu das to my rescue please. Can you upload some more bgm's of IR to your repository at coolgoose.
  
  Srivatsan will definetly try to do it.
  
  
  
• From: Gyan (@ 4.158.117.20) on: Thu May 13 14:19:06 EDT 2004
  
  Srivatsan & Oshao: the composition of Greenaway is quite complex, and has the "same intro" (WITHOUT ANY DOUBT) of Sakalakala Vallavan, i am talkin of the 30 secs percussion and the shouting at the ending of it.
  
  why i am also saying that it is IR influenced composition is because in the main theme which i can place later (about 19 mins, but i tried uploading the first 5 minutes and it failed - about 9 mb and 192 kbs, i will reduce the weight of the mp3 to say 124kbs or somehting) in the first 90 seconds, u can hear faint Tamil voices as the intro picks up gently and rises to a crescendo of very IRish-Salilda style percussion and trumpets !!!!!!
  
  Then the African song is typically African, I think - but study the chord changes in the song itself, plus bass and use of certain instruments, before that song. I think the Greenaway did a fantastic job, but heavily inspired unlike any Hollywood film composition (of course with the exception of Danny Elman' works!!!) and it is very IRish based, however, with an idiom on the "intellectual" and the stretched side of things, which in some good sense Indian music does not anywhere pretend to be at any time.
  
  Despite the intellectualism and Picassoistic impressionist cubism par whatever, I still like the theme development of the first intro i Placed already, just listen to it a few times and u can see without doubt IR style composing for a Western audience, that is a dragged out, not instantaneous, not spontaneous, but indeed well developed theme.
  
  Pls wait for the main theme. By the way, does anyone know who composed "Avalukkave Naan" there are two fantastic rock n roll type classics. I think it must be Sathyam or Rajan Nagendra or Vijay Bhaskar, but the 3rd song sounded typical Gangai Amaran in that movie.
  
  
• From: Gyan (@ 4.158.117.20) on: Thu May 13 15:08:03 EDT 2004
  
  http://web.music.coolgoose.com/music/song.php?id=116740
  
  This corroborates what I meant - IR has inspired Greenaway' Disneyland music without doubt. this is 50 sec only just the voices. i will try to put atleast 5 more minutes of the 19 min percussion plus song and variations later. as i said, this is not American type composing at all, u can recognize in a more elaborate manner or in an idiom IR would adopt for American audiences. The new Millennium is I guess heralded by IR' genius thru Greenaway (which by the way most Americans won't know about of heard of, I have understood, who cares for Disney "music", unless accompanied by Disney cartoons, even then only the cartoon characters will be remembered!!!!! Has rest of the world' time come to enjoy IR? I am not sure yet. But, some work is gone ahead for that. Beatles&Shankar, Greenaway, Rahman, now Sonia Gandhi may be setting the platform!!!! Yes, a platform is necessary and a perfect timing. 2004 and 1994 two different ages and yes, the power of powerful music to help various peoples mature is never before so significant than now Wait and see!!! Defintely, time for Peace has come, Elijah, Illiad, Ilayaraja...... dove, Annakkilli.... maybe too much of my own hopes, let me not take it too far to crazyland;-)
  
  
• From: k (@ 192.138.150.249) on: Thu May 13 18:04:33 EDT 2004
  
  Great going guys..Osho and Gyan posts are apt to the title of this thread. There really exists some merit in visiting newtfmpage still.
  Gyan, you are making a good case for the inspiration. Osho, is bringing out so much similarities is style and substance, that it only goes to prove how much of music knowledge IR has. All the pieces put out by Osho are really really pleasant. I noticed that the Alan Silvestri's style where a string background is used to back up the main piano melody is generally what IR uses in songs with vocals in the foreground. In the piano piece, you can see how IR uses so much polyphonic sound which gets drowned out because of bad recording. If only given good recording facilities and a real orchestra, we will see how good IR is in the company of stalwarts from other countries. Sometimes the 4 or 5 minutes for a song is not enough for him..he probably needs to do 3 or 4 movements for a song. No wonder, he likes the freedom in the BGM.
  
  
• From: I am going a bit off here?!!!!! sorry, abou that! (@ 4.158.114.193) on: Thu May 13 19:01:18 EDT 2004
  
  k, i placed a 6 min main theme also which also includes the tamil voices in 60 to 110 sec timeline.
  
  http://web.music.coolgoose.com/music/song.php?id=116746
  
  most important, everyone please listen to the first around 2 min "IR inspire Millennium". I just listened to it again and I can't but stress the influence is incredible. first, the first 30 sec the percussion is ditto copy, then: the violin sweeping is played exactly on the xylophone type instrument, not just IR style, but also the sounds/bass and the "phrasing" itself - "question answer or dialog type mode of phrasing" is incredibly IR!!!!!!! Please get all the 3 and then I will be removing them in a few days.
  
  this is just how IR would compose for a Western audience. It is incredible as far as I see it is a just a fantastic variation on the Ilamai Idho Idho song itself. hey, change a few notes here and there and just stretch it a bit, what have you got!!!!!!
  
  meantime, let me check out Alan Silvestri and Lilo Schifrin, of late they are different, very.
  
  By the way, the violin backing - u have to hear Indru Poi Nalai - Mere Pyaari Dil Ki Raani, second interlude, a few other early songs long before Silvestri and Lilo Schifrin probably leared to do it, IR had it in 70s songs.
  
  
• From: SSSSA (@ 66.57.14.197) on: Thu May 13 20:39:54 EDT 2004
  
  It is enthralling! thamizhle 'mayir koochchrivadhu' appadeennnu solvAngalE, adhu pOla!!
  great going guys, keep going!!
  IIR is great!!
  p.s. I can only appreciate this!!
  BTW, pl. fill it up with your inspirational writings. I am copying these! and, IIR is comming to my place this wednesday.!!
  
  

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