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Everything you always wanted to talk about ARR vs. IR but were afraid..

Topic started by rajaG (@ daecfp01.sprint.com) on Wed Aug 18 17:12:52 EDT 1999.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Too many posters are using other topics to discuss/slam/comment/praise IR/ARR that I thought we could use this one thread as a catch all for all those posts. Welcome guys!!!

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.22.112) on: Mon Aug 23 15:58:03 EDT 1999
  
  Srikanth, sollradhukku mannikkaNum. indha maadhiri discuss paNNum pOdhu "idhu thaan da, vaada pOda " appadeengara vaarthaigaLa thavirkkalaamEy.
  
  thx
  
  MS
  
  
• From: Rama (@ 166.34.128.34) on: Mon Aug 23 16:57:30 EDT 1999
  
  Hello Friends,
  Raja has come a long way for 25 years. When you listen to his songs you have a lot to think and research on. Where as ARR is just catering the not so serious fans of TFM. In this hurrying world people call a song a hit if it is just catchy for that moment.
  Time will prove that how great MSV and IR are and really where ARR is. Because ARR is contemperory musician whose songs are catchy for that day or may be until his next album comes. Which means he can never be eternal like MSV or IR.
  ARR made 6 year olds to sing chikku bukku rayilu and humma humma, tell me how many kids now hum those tunes or even remember those.
  This is a fast paced world where people dont have time to think of any class in the song or any minute beauties in the song. So the music directors are happy and dont have to think a lot or work a lot for scoring. That is why Deva's songs are a hit now, S.A.Rajkumar's songs are hit and so are ARR's.
  ARR lifts tunes from all latest western hits. Well ofcourse he scores another 4 songs for the film. The lift is for 2 or 3 lines in the popular song. But finally the hit song from the movie is that lifted song and that too for those 2 lifted lines. This is really sad to know.
  I read an answer in arasu answers in kumudham some time ago. IR made tamil people turn ears towards tamil song from hindi songs, ARR made hindi people turn ears towards tamil songs. But I think ARR made Indian people turn their ears again towards the western songs.
  Thanks
  Sorry for being too long
  R...
  
  
• From: kiru (@ surf0004.sybase.com) on: Mon Aug 23 16:59:59 EDT 1999
  
  Re: briga - Every MD has their own style/focus. They do not have to use every technique in any school of music.
  
  IR's contribution to TFM is more innovative than inventive. In one sentence his contribution can be summed up as -
  
  "Seamless integration of Western Classical Music with Indian music in a structured way".
  
  Even though he is known for variety there is always a structure or formula behind his composing . This structure can be exploited by any person who has studied his style to compose new songs/tunes. I hope formula is not misunderstood for boring/repetitive. Coming up with a formula/structure is a major contribution to any particular field.
  
  Yes, MSV used WCM in TFM. Even IR has acknowledged this. But it took IR to formalise this style.
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ proxy2-external.moline1.il.home.com) on: Mon Aug 23 18:38:36 EDT 1999
  
  Ok
  Srinath; I did not say "mellisai" belongs to MSV.
  I have also put Raja enhanced bgm. Basically Raja had a map to do light music, someone up there put that raja introduced bgm --- I listed out few songs which had better bgms. I proved that there were bgms in the past.
  
  Kiru , Srinath and others;
  
  I am not just asking 10 valid points raja introduced new in tfm. But people rather givening points are just repeating the same pallavi as raja is great, msv is waste etc.
  
  Hari;
  'MSV had some stupid idea that when ever the saranam changes, he had to change the talam. -- theriyama solarienga...nothing but simply igonorence.
  IR infact broke all this fixed rules.'
  - -- Fixed rules means what.
  Rama;
  "Raja has come a long way for 25 years"
  ----. Shall we count
  Main issue here; what are the new things musically - raja did for tfm....I just asked 10 of them.
  
  
  Vijay:
  He attempted the new venture of composing non-filmi western classical albums like HTNI, which eventually caught the attention of musicians worldwide. -- Msv did the first ever non-filmi album, also he had few bhathi albums like krisha ganam to his account. also Vijay htni 60% were ready made scores by bach, (eg:preludiam in EMaj) raja tried to place a indian score over it. One of them happened to be thulasi dala... We are not discussing strong points of raja, we are discussing what raja introduced to the tfm.
  
  
  
• From: srikanth (@ proxy2-external.moline1.il.home.com) on: Mon Aug 23 18:40:01 EDT 1999
  
  typo:I am not just asking 10 valid points raja introduced -- please remove the "not."
  
  ---> I am just asking 10 valid points raja introduced
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ proxy2-external.moline1.il.home.com) on: Mon Aug 23 18:42:03 EDT 1999
  
  Kiru ;
  
  "Coming up with a formula/structure is a major contribution to any particular field. "
  
  -- Long time ago I argued Raja's score are predicitable as they based on formula's....
  -- everyone trashed me here for my words.
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.27.21) on: Mon Aug 23 18:44:12 EDT 1999
  
  OK srikanth, what about the other points that i have mentioned? ;))
  
  All MD's make non-filmi albums, what the heck, I guess even deva has made non-filmi albums but IR was the one chosen to perform in RPO and that's why I said that he caught internatioanl attention;))
  
  To answer your question, Raja introduced interlude music and re-recording in TFM.
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ proxy2-external.moline1.il.home.com) on: Mon Aug 23 20:20:15 EDT 1999
  
  Raja introduced interlude music and re-recording in TFM. Vijay;-- do you say songs before raja did not have interlude...all the songs had interludes. ( most songs from 1960 had 2 different interludes due to space restriction on SP/EP records they were truncated, but if you hear the direct movies tracks you will know more. (Most of my old collection are directly recorded from the movie audio track.)
  
  
  "chosen to perform in RPO"
  ---- where is it? ----- Symphony is Big bermuda triangle. I can also claims x was chosen by z philharmonic. --- as far as most of know BPH is not perferming any raja's score till date.
  And many fans of IR just talking about the Yeti..but not seen the YETI yet.,
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ proxy2-external.moline1.il.home.com) on: Mon Aug 23 20:21:15 EDT 1999
  
  Raja introduced interlude music and re-recording in TFM. Vijay;-- do you say songs before raja did not have interlude...all the songs had interludes. ( most songs from 1960 had 2 different interludes due to space restriction on SP/EP records they were truncated, but if you hear the direct movies tracks you will know more. (Most of my old collection are directly recorded from the movie audio track.)
  
  
  "chosen to perform in RPO"
  ---- where is it? ----- Symphony is Big bermuda triangle. I can also claims x was chosen by z philharmonic. --- as far as most of us know BPH is not performing any raja's score till date.
  And many fans of IR just talking about the Yeti..but not seen the YETI yet.,as on date -- Raja took the credit without doing it.
  
  
• From: Kamesh (@ hlr-13-91.tm.net.my) on: Mon Aug 23 21:26:13 EDT 1999
  
  Reg Briga - (Sorry, I am a novice ) Is the song Kalyana Then Nila high on Briga content? Can anyone clarify?
  
  
• From: hari (@ 98cb5d12.ipt.aol.com) on: Mon Aug 23 22:19:59 EDT 1999
  
  srikanth,
  I cant speak in the technical terms. Listen to kamban embanden and other so called typical msv songs. Tabla did not mend with the tune, and whenever saranam changes, talam too. YOu can find the same characteristic in KVM songs too. Except the great hummable tunes MSV created, only handful of his songs had any good, settled orchestration.
  
  e.hari
  
  
• From: Sabesan (@ 116-ppp-b.tnt09.agis.net) on: Mon Aug 23 22:54:57 EDT 1999
  
  edhu enna TFModaa sabakedaaa... topicaaa thavira mathada pathieee pesureengaa......
  
  hello BB pesamal topicaaa IR vs MSVnu mathidalaaamaaa??????
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ proxy1-external.moline1.il.home.com) on: Mon Aug 23 23:06:53 EDT 1999
  
  ehari; Still the same old answer, Ignorence.
  I think the tape you have might have some problem.
  
  
  "Everything you always wanted to talk about ARR vs. IR but were afraid.." (btw:I am not afraid)
  --- I just asked 10 new things raja did for tfm, MSV was bought into the picture just to prove what raja had done had been already done by MDs of the past.
  
  
  
• From: aruvi (@ spc-isp-tor-uas-97-34.sprint.ca) on: Mon Aug 23 23:13:02 EDT 1999
  
  Seven notes, and they fool around with it. Nothing new. Nothing original. Everything is already there. Raja and Rahman, are just names. There are other names. Who says these two are better. No way. Just because there is one sun that is recognized by our vision doesn't mean that those stars are not also suns. So all is same. Raja and Rahman are just names. Nothing more, nothing less.
  
  
• From: kiru (@ surf0004.sybase.com) on: Tue Aug 24 00:47:18 EDT 1999
  
  Srikanth,
  You agree then that IRs music is 'formulaic'.
  I am sure you can come up with ten formulae that he uses. So there you go, you have your 10 contributions !! I am dead serious
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.28.53) on: Tue Aug 24 01:47:40 EDT 1999
  
  srikanth,
  i never imagined that u would take my words literally. When i said that Raja introduced interlude and re-recording what I meant was he was the one who gave these 2 aspects a new dimension and brought out the importance of these. how many MSV films are talked about now for re-recording? how many MSV songs are remembered for interlude music? that is my point.
  
  He might be a great tune composer but he did not give that much importance to interludes as IR gave. I think u know this too, but for some reason u dont want to accept it. Go and ask TFM music listeners who are in their 50s and 60s now about 10 melodious songs of MSV, they'll easily remember but 10 songs with great interludes, Iam not sure. Raja made people take notice of his interlude music and re-recording.
  
  Just because the symphony has not been released does'nt mean it has not been composed. People in this forum have actually verified this info. It WAS conducted in London and hopefully it should be released soon. (or atleast I wish so)
  
  
• From: Music_connoisseur (@ 203.197.134.235) on: Tue Aug 24 03:22:20 EDT 1999
  
  IMO, all this endless argument only goes to prove that each of MSV,IR and ARR is/was great in their own right at their own time. Each has his individuality and there is no point comparing the three - everyone has his own opinions which are subjective.
  
  I think there cannot be an objective comparison between composers who are at a certain level. Objectivity stops when comparing the Anand-Milinds of the world with ARR, IR.
  
  
• From: thattha (@ 98a6f411.ipt.aol.com) on: Tue Aug 24 03:28:28 EDT 1999
  
  Athu ennavo pa - IR onnumae pudhumayae pannalayam. Averu pattu la bigas (ithu thamizha?) ilayam. Eppadiyo pogattum.
  
  Inaikku koda avaroda 10 pattu (srikanth sir nichyama athula onnumae puthumaya illay) ketaen, ellam nala irunthathu. US la engayo tamil natta vittu ivvaluvu thorathala kooda man vasanai visithu. Manasukku nimathiya irunthathu. Brigas ekkaedu kettu pogattum.
  
  
  

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