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Raga of song please

Topic started by Gopal Prasad (@ greed.cs.umass.edu) on Sat May 17 07:42:45 EDT 1997.
All times in EDT +9:30 for IST.

The popular notation used on this page. The twelve notes of an octave are the following.

1   2   3   4   5   6   7  8   9  10  11  12
S  R1  R2  R3  G3  M1  M2  P  D1  D2  D3  N3
       G1  G2                     N1  N2

Download/Upload raga based songs.

"Raga based film songs" Database | Old Database | Indian Classical Music Forum | Hindi Raaga of Songs Thread

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Ram (@ 63.161.25.208) on: Thu May 9 21:36:34 EDT 2002
  
  Sundar Atre,
  Best song I could think of is "Paruvame"(the jogging song)....just hear the song the picture springs into ur mind....athu Bhoopalam nu nenaikaren(Kalaiyil paadum Raagam)
  
  
• From: Ram (@ 63.161.25.208) on: Thu May 9 22:02:38 EDT 2002
  
  IR_Fan,
  Manadile Oru Paattu in film Dhayam Onnu is mostly kalyani(although some portion gets out of that scale)...as usual confirm pls:-)
  
  
• From: Kupps (@ 156.153.255.134) on: Fri May 10 00:01:03 EDT 2002
  
  MS,
  
  Thanks for your first step answer to my question :-)
  
  I have a doubt:
  
  A ragam is not a "set of notes". It is a mood in itself. If the mood is not reflected in the song, I guess we cannot strictly call that song to be in a particular raga.
  
  In cinema MDs use a raaga termed to be for a specific mood, in a different mood. In such a situation can't we call them set in that raaga?
  (e.g.) Poovae ILaya poovae varam tharum a jubliant love mood song from KoLi koovudhu is said to be set in neelambari whose mood is sleepy.
  
  
• From: Ram (@ 63.161.25.208) on: Fri May 10 00:02:53 EDT 2002
  
  Kupps,
  Poove ilaya poove is Shankarabharanam IMHO
  
  
• From: IR_Fan (@ 202.88.152.159) on: Fri May 10 00:50:28 EDT 2002
  
  Ram/Kupps, rendume correct dhaan ;-)
  
  
• From: Ram (@ 63.161.25.208) on: Fri May 10 00:57:22 EDT 2002
  
  IR_Fan what abt my prev post?
  
  
• From: IR_Fan (@ 202.88.152.159) on: Fri May 10 02:50:15 EDT 2002
  
  Ram, 'Manadhile Oru Paattu' is Kalyani alright.
  
  And i have listened to 'Padagottum Pattamma' song from Chinnavar umpteen times. How come u have not? But raga base confirm panren.
  
  Last week u asked abt 'Kuyilukku Koo Koo' from Friends. I guess it is Keeravani based.
  
  
• From: Kupps (@ 156.153.255.134) on: Fri May 10 03:22:44 EDT 2002
  
  'Kuyilukku Koo Koo' from Friends. I guess it is Keeravani based
  
  ada aaamaa :-)
  
  naanu idha(keeravaaniyil amaidhuLLadhunnu) padichchirukkaen
  
  btw adhu aeppadi SB and Neelambari both correct? Andha paattu rendu raagaththula amainjirukka aenna?
  
  
• From: IR_Fan (@ 202.88.152.159) on: Fri May 10 04:26:10 EDT 2002
  
  Kupps :-)
  
  In that song, Neelambari weak (and in traces), ShBh strong..thats why...Just my opinion.
  
  
• From: IR_Fan (@ 202.88.152.159) on: Fri May 10 04:37:18 EDT 2002
  
  Kupps,
  
  Neelambhari - Pa Dha2 Pa usage in aarohanam. The scale is derived from ShBh and has the following AA AV
  
  AA - Sa Ri2 Ga3 Ma1 Pa Dha2 Pa Ni3 Sa
  AV - Sa Ni3 Pa Ma1 G3 R2 G3 S
  
  while ShBh is,
  
  AA - Sa Ri2 Ga3 Ma1 Pa Dha2 Ni3 Sa
  AV - Sa Ni3 Pa Ma1 Ga3 Ri2 Ga3 Sa
  
  I feel this case is just like 'Pachmala Poovu' from Kizhakku Vaasal.
  
  
• From: Raghu (@ ) on: Fri May 10 07:04:25 EDT 2002
  
  Azhagiya thirumakane from Tik Tik Tik - I chanced to hear it in SUN TV yday.Yesudas and Shailaja.
  
  Wonderful song set in kahraharapriya!Sheer genius in composition. dunno how i missed this song all this time. wht say others ?
  
  
• From: Sindhuja (@ 203.197.176.4) on: Fri May 10 07:14:21 EDT 2002
  
  MS,I guess u haven't understood my doubt -or rather I haven't made it clear-I'm not talking abt. songs that r not raaga based(like adisayam from Jeans which sounds ShankarAbharanam-ish or say,Chaiyya chaiyya...-these don't strictly follow any particular rAgA..)Me talking ONLY abt. shruthiBhedam and nothing else-The rAgA of such songs depends on where u set the Sa,i.e the shruti(OF course,I don't have to tell YOU all this-u know much more,am just trying to make my point clear..:-))So,how do u decide where to fix the Sa?Here I go again(people must be bugged of reading this,but am desperate to get this clarified...):-
  The starting swaram of "Andhi mazhai" if taken as Sa , the RAgA is Ramani,if Ma,it is Vasantha.So,which is the actual rAgA?Or,is it technically right to say that it can be called Vasantha as well as Ramani(which r shrithi bhedams of each other)?
  Ram,and abt. this RAgam-Ramani-i learnt it from none other than our IR,abt. a year and a half back,when we were discussing abt. the same song.
  The notes that Anu has given r right.
  
  
• From: satsona (@ 203.199.192.162) on: Fri May 10 07:52:58 EDT 2002
  
  same query for the 4th time :
  
  Raaga of Adhikaalai nerame (Radhika and Pratap film)
  
  anyone pls let me know....plsssssss
  
  
• From: IR_Fan (@ 202.88.152.159) on: Fri May 10 08:01:58 EDT 2002
  
  sat, can u give a link for the song?
  
  
• From: Sundar Atre (@ 130.203.216.54) on: Fri May 10 09:54:20 EDT 2002
  
  Check this link and also IR's "How to name it" for one more shrithibedham example
  
  http://www.raajangahm.com/reviews_raaja2.html
  
  
• From: Sundar Atre (@ 130.203.216.54) on: Fri May 10 10:02:59 EDT 2002
  
  Maybe you guys have already seen this on Shruthi bedham too:
  http://www.newtfmpage.com/ci/ci13.html
  
  I heard some where that GNB is attributed to originating this stuff in "recent" times.
  
  
• From: Anu (@ 68.49.138.51) on: Fri May 10 12:09:06 EDT 2002
  
  You are right Sundar - Sruthi bedham started with GNB (i have read in 'sruthi' music mag that he wanted to practise sruti bedham to simulate his voice with a nagaswaram) and is still prevailing strongly in GNB school of music. MLV was mainly criticised for extensive sruthi bedham in her peak years though some positive critics called it an intellectual expertise. But as always, many critics say usage of Sruthi bedham subdues the beauty & grammar of the actual raga under consideration.
  
  
• From: Raghu (@ 164.164.142.12) on: Sat May 11 07:45:58 EDT 2002
  
  There is one malayalam song from the film gaanam "aalapanam.." - Yeasudas and Janaki and tht song is supposedly one perfect eg of shruthibhedam. kalyanai and thodi it is. composed by none other than v Dakshinamoorthy.I think MS may be familiar with tht song. dunno abt others!!
  
  can any one say where can i find the MP3 of tht tik tik tik song ? pls!!
  
  
• From: Ram (@ 63.161.26.234) on: Sun May 12 00:27:57 EDT 2002
  
  IR_Fan,
  Odai Thanni Uppu Thanni in Film "Sivappu Thaali" is Charukesi:-)
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.25.241) on: Sun May 12 17:55:34 EDT 2002
  
  Sindhuja:
  
  The answer to your question remains the same. The same question asked by me and answered by IR in the OR. Just by transposing the the sa the raga does not "become" that. Let us take an example:
  
  sa ri ga pa dha sa = mohanam
  
  ga pa dha sa ri ga = sa ga ma dha ni sa = hindholam as trasnposed mohanam.
  
  Now if a singer keeps on singing the "ga pa dha sa ri ga" over and over in a mohanam song, it does not "automatically become" hindholam. I think the microtones or the gamakap parayogams are the ones which determine the feel of the raga. Hence a raga's "Sa" will have to be fixed intuitively mostly. But there are composers who beat our intuitions to a great level that we will hardly be able to "fix" the Sa for a particular song.
  
  (1) maargazhip poove - ARR mixes SD and hindholam so effectively that we can hardly recognize what raga is playing at a given time.
  
  (2) un pErai chonnale - KR mixes SD and mohanam. we had a good discussion earlier on this.
  
  U may say that the intuition differ :-) Yes they do, but surprsingly not greatly. It seems like when somebody sings "saamaja varagaman", most of us are able to perceive the hindholam and not its shruthi bedhams namely (mohanam, SD etc..)
  
  
  Raghu:
  
  Yes I know that song. A fantastic semiclassical number. It starts in an arbitrary aalaapanam and plants its feet on thodi before running to kalyaNi. but I am not sure if it si a shruthi bedham..HAve to play on KB and see. This is one song in which KJY's delivery is absolutely admirable. SJ comes as a distant second.
  
  
• From: Sindhuja (@ 203.197.182.157) on: Mon May 13 00:45:41 EDT 2002
  
  MS,that was a good explanation,though I'm not convinced with the intuition part of it.(Ivlo kashta pattu explain panni irukeenga,ippo convince aahala-nnu sonnadum ore veruppa irukka?sorry!:-))
  All of us tend to percieve SAmajavaragamanA as Hindolam coz it's a well-known,age-old song and we've been told from the beginning that it is Hindolam and moreover,in Carnatic music,usually,b4 a song is sung or played,the singer or the player sings or plays Sa Pa Sa-so that solves everything!U know which pitch it is and thus know where to fix the Sa!
  Tell me this-what does Andhi mazhai sound like,to u?U take the very first swaram in the song as Sa or Ma?Does this song sound like Vasantha or Ramani to u?Or,do u say that this is like Margazhi poove-where we just can't fix the rAgam?
  {{U may say that the intuition differ :-) Yes they do, but surprsingly not greatly.}}:
  We just saw,in this thread itself how greatly intuition differs when IR_fan,IR and myself came up with 3 diff. rAgAs for Sundari,which were all shruthibhedams of each other. I agree,though that the no. of such controversial cases IS less-i.e mostly,we all DO tend to hear a song in the same rAgam.
  Sorry,I swear this will be the end of this discussion if I'm bugging all of u!:-)
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.25.241) on: Mon May 13 02:00:06 EDT 2002
  
  hmmm..I do agree that people's intuitions are definitely influenced by what they learn as they grow up. Somebody tells u it is hindhOLam all along and u develop a "hindholam" ear for that :-) But why is it that only some songs confuse and not others ? hmm..I am neither educated nor a genius to answer that qn..where is IR ? :-)
  
  And what is raga ramani ? I have long held that andhimazai is panthuvaraaLi and misconstrued to be vasantha...but as u reveal, since it is a shruthi bedham, it could well be what we "perceive" :-)
  
  So let there be peace !
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 68.51.203.216) on: Mon May 13 02:20:22 EDT 2002
  
  Sindhuja, (from previous discussions in the OR) try using the interludes, the prelude mridhangam piece to help find the "sa" in the song and then give it a shot. You might still end up confused like most of us, but thats the logical way to go about it. I had "intuitively" thought the song to be in Vasantha till today :-)
  
  

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