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Is TFM in a vicious cycle of degeneration?

Topic started by rajaG (@ 208.24.179.211) on Tue Sep 26 15:43:14 EDT 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

I have checked the archives and for some reason a topic with a similar heading is gone!
So here's is some food for thought.

1. Actors like Ajith, Vijay, etc commanding MDs to copy from "English CDs" and set them to Indian lyrics.
2. MDs like Deva, Sirpi copying left, right and center, in situations excluding item 1 above.
3. Bad pronunciation of singers.
4. MDs like SAR repeating the same tune over and over and over......you get the point (and many times in the same film)
5. ARR not putting any effort in re-recording at all- merely playing the songs in the movie with slower/faster versions.
6. ARR, Srikanth (Deva's son), etc blatantly indulging in lip-synch activities. Other lesser known artists, engaged in karaoke singing. While this does not directly affect TFM it speaks for the lack of confidence in the talents of the artists.
7. Many occurences of really stupid lyrics - though most of them may be blamed on the director/producers adamant insistence or same boring situations.
8. Absence of thespians who could inspire Kannadasan, TMS, SPB, PS etc to give their best.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.87.28.203) on: Wed Mar 5 16:51:53 EST 2003
  
  Udhaya -
  
  I have been somewhat bewildered by the way "song" is used in these fora. Is a song a tune? Is a song the singing voice? Is a song the domain of the MD or the Singer or both? But let's not dwell too much on it, as it might seem like hair-splitting. Let's settle for "interchangeably" for now.
  To share my sense of understanding - I look upon a "song" as a composite - and a coming together of tune,voice and words in a seamless blend where every component complements and coaxes the other to achieve a heightened sensory experience.
  
  Jency is not on par with Sadhna as a singer - in purely voice and range terms. Admittedly, she has sung many a good IR composition, and whatever else one might say about her voice quality or ability, it should be clear that her pronunciation of Tamil (for a malayalam speaker) was more or less standard , although not exemplary. Yes, I did listen to the her songs from Mullum Malarum, Niram Maradha Pookkal, Karumbu Vil, Johnny, Engeyo Kaetta Kural etc. But to say that I listened to them for Jency's voice would be disingenuous, for what captivated one was the tune and the genius of IR. Hence, the "hummability" factor was IRs, not Jency's. I still believe that all of IRs compositions sung by Jency and SPS would have been stellar (in singing terms) had the same been offered to a more qualified and qualitative voice.
  
  While it is true that we all bring our own baggage to how we receive and rejoice in any particular song, and that the listening experience in more multi than mono, this subjectivity cannot be applied to pronunciation. That is, and has got to be "black and white."
  
  "Snegidhaney" and "Chuppke Se" - same tune, same voice, but what a "pronounced" difference between the two!
  
  It is not my intention to diminish the obvious singing talent of Hariharan, Sadhna, Udit or Shreya. They all have their merits and accomplishments. However, I'd be damned if I got rapturous about their linguistic contribution to TFM.
  To strech the Briyani metaphor: I am not the sort that's going to crunch stones with every mouthful, and still glow about the fragrance of the hidden cardamom.
  
  
• From: hihi:-) (@ 128.111.113.76) on: Wed Mar 5 17:07:47 EST 2003
  
  ex of jency spoiling a great song: en vAnilE orE veNNilA
  
  
• From: Fliflo (@ 130.203.165.194) on: Wed Mar 5 17:14:22 EST 2003
  
  hihi:-)
  
  ex of jency spoiling a great song: en vAnilE orE veNNilA
  
  Ellam ennappa solreenga. I thought that is a wonderfully dispensed. mmm..discussionoda uchcham kuzhappma??
  
  
• From: Fliflo (@ 130.203.165.194) on: Wed Mar 5 17:16:00 EST 2003
  
  
  read it as in my previous posting
  
  ..dispensed song.
  
  
• From: peeps (@ 12.162.224.6) on: Wed Mar 5 17:18:06 EST 2003
  
  aruL,
  its one of my fav songs and till now cud not find anything odd in the singing.can u please point me some places where she fails in tht song?pronounciation problem'a illa bhaavam illatha singing'a?Are we referring to the same song?:-))
  
  
• From: hihi:-) (@ 128.111.113.76) on: Wed Mar 5 18:52:58 EST 2003
  
  peeps: :-)) the same song (from johnny?). the way she sing the pallavi itself is aweful (kAthal dhIbangal - often she says 'l' and not 'L' kavidhai thArakai); 'N'-s become 'n' quite often. the second stanza is bad (iraNd'u' ...). vAya akalamA virichiNdu pAduvathu pOl irukkum ivar pATTaik kETTAl:-). the songs in which i like jency are 'kAdhal Oviyam', 'adi peNNE ponnUnjal Adum iLamai', 'mayilE mayilE', 'thamthana thamthana'. most other songs (including 'iru paRavaikaL malai muzuvathum' could have been rendered better). all imho.
  
  
• From: hihi:-) (@ 128.111.113.76) on: Wed Mar 5 18:54:11 EST 2003
  
  kiru: :-)).
  
  i might be meeting kavi alexander in the next few days. do you have anything to communicate to him?
  
  
• From: Fliflo (@ 130.203.167.152) on: Wed Mar 5 20:01:17 EST 2003
  
  It's good to see grammatical perfectionists reproving some classic hits. Hope IR hearkens them and attempts to rectify them in future. :))
  
  
  
  
• From: Sharma (@ 61.6.38.132) on: Wed Mar 5 20:17:09 EST 2003
  
  Strange that Jency's songs are praised and enjoyed for the tune and genius of IR but Sadhana Sargam's songs are condemned and derided for mispronunciations. Beauty is indeed in the eyes of the beholder. Some people see the ant across the river but are unable to see the elephant in front of their eyes.
  
  Kupps, please post your opinions withot fear or favour. Real music fans without rose-lens will never question your right to an opinion and blame it on degeneration -- which is only in the claimants' own brains.
  
  
• From: Fliflo (@ 130.203.167.152) on: Wed Mar 5 20:30:36 EST 2003
  
  Your hold is still not tight Mr. Sharma. Browse the entire newtfmpage and ensure yourself with the statistics. I am cocksure that the difference in percentage criticizing SS's pronounciation over Jency's would be gigantic.
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 68.51.215.28) on: Wed Mar 5 21:04:04 EST 2003
  
  Digression:
  
  Arul, if you still happen to have contacts with Rajaangahm, is there any way for you to get the mp3 or atleast high realaudio quality versions of some rare IR albums and songs that have been featured in their site like Ezhumalaiyaan Magimai, Metti, BalaNagamma, Ilamai Kolam (Nee illaadha podhu)etc.? Some of the songs from these albums have been very elusive.
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.87.28.203) on: Wed Mar 5 22:55:35 EST 2003
  
  Sharma -
  
  If you'd please do me a favour and read my post again (I believe you are referring to what I had posted? I infer this from "tune and genius") I said that Jency's pronunciation was not exemplary and that the IR tunes which went her way would have fared better had they been sung by another established, and better qualitfied singer.
  Jency may not have been the best thing that happened to TFM, but to be fair to her, she also did not make tamizh sound "foreign" the way SS & Co. do. Even Chitra and Sujata have their "malayalam" moments in tamizh songs, but SS is in a league all her own when it comes to her tamizh skills (and after how MANY songs??) For the record, I also found Mitali Singh's Yamunai Aatrile Eera Kaatrile to be a fine song, which would have lingered a lot longer had the singer got her words and stresses right. So, yes, these singers were/are propped UP by IRs tunes, and not the other way around.
  
  In context, I was responding to Udhaya's comment that music "appreciation" is multifaceted and varied for each listener. But a song does suffer hugely, as does the listening experience, when the mispronunciations - glaring and different every time in SS's case - curtail the complete enjoyment of a tune.
  
  I wouldn't know much about ants across the river or elephants up close, but this much is certain: the essence and import of a post is surely in the eyes of the reader.
  
  
  
• From: st (@ 212.153.190.3) on: Thu Mar 6 00:54:20 EST 2003
  
  Kiru,
  i couldnt see anything in my posting that you could call as an argument.
  Anyway i wasnt saying that anyone is right/wrong here. In fact in one of my postings some time back i had said, "top ten ley varey paatu paakra maadriaa iruukku".(Though there are good numbers still coming, but that was my overall observation). U can be assured that the "above 25 thing that i said..." is a scientifically backed theory and not from my PHD papers. The evidence is in people like me (& i think thiru) finding it hard to digest the fact that people today ask some songs to be played that atleast i would not hear even as a last option. Ur technical analysis of a song that u dislike but someone else enjoys is not going to change either of your opinions.
  
  
• From: Prabhu (@ 202.54.40.210) on: Thu Mar 6 02:48:54 EST 2003
  
  A great discussion. (esp. enjoyed the onslaught of Udhaya and Suresh 'Peter' on Sam - 2 seasoned tomcats putting a presumptuous rat in its place? A tickle followed by teeth-rattling slaps...:)))
  
  Why havent you guys brought in the picturisation aspect? Probably demands of the industry have made 30-40 extras in a song a routine feature. Add to this the dress sense of the characters portrayed in today's films. This definitely influences the kind of music the movie will get.
  Plus, the importance given to choreographers has been increasing, so atleast 1-2 foot-tapping numbers have to be included at any cost. So melodies are out. Plus, in such a case, the composers definitely wont give anything remarkable for the interludes too.
  
  That should be one of the reasons why we oldtimers like recent songs where at most 1-2 characters appear.(eg chellam song from Album)
  
  
• From: Sam (@ 132.235.18.15) on: Thu Mar 6 03:24:48 EST 2003
  
  While its a fact there are gems and duds with the Past, so it is with the Present. And I view it as improper to compare a classic from any time with a dud from the other. A little disinterested survey would tell you this. While it is convenient to accept/ignore/forget a thing of the Past, why not with Present? I am not calling for a complaint attitude or askin ourselves to submit to whatever is offered, but rather protesting the snobbish disposition of praising the Past at the expense of Present........ and vice-versa.
  
  When somebody appreciates the inclusion of 3/4 beat in a 4/4 time in Yen Iniya Pon Nilave (please excuse my tamil, I donno tamil, I am telugu) what obstructs him from atleast acknowledging (forget appreciation) the presence of the same in No Problem (Love Birds)?
  
  When one can rave on the harmonic bass in Ninnu Kori Varnam, why not the same with Pookum Malargal from the new movie? Or Kadhal Sadugudu which showed bass guitar is also about slapping and sliding?
  
  Poove Sem Poove intro guitar plucking provided a variation of D-G-Em progression without actually playing the relevant notes, so did Sugam Sugam provide a variation on the Cm-G progression.
  
  When u say Guitar Man when u refer to Ilaya Nila why not the same with a Laysa Laysa, or a Gulmohar Malare or a July Madham?
  
  The violins go wild in the Key of A , and then SPB cooly begins the song on G (Rakkamma kaiya thattu). In Kadhal Vanoli (album) major part of the interlude is in the key of C# minor, and Sujatha conveniently starts the charanam in Cminor (on the note G). Hariharan and Chinmaayee sing in all possible scales of Cminor and then she (and the flute) go to another scale for the charanam in Kannathil Muthamittal.
  
  Vaan Megham intro drumming symbolises thunder (roll on the tom toms) follwed by rain (trills on the cymbals). So do, in the song Anbay (Rhythm), the violins symbolise the arrival of dark clouds one after the another by repeating the theme one on the other.
  
  In the other direction:
  Gentleman offered a variety of percussion, while April May (Idhayam) showed how complex ur drum rolls can be using only one drum, and in one song.
  
  People go gaga over vocal harmony in Smaayiyaay (KK), and convienetly forget a Devanin Kovil.
  
  While we can appreciate the change of meters in Adhisayam thirumanam, lets not forget the second interlude in Aathadi amaadi (Jallanta thullintha, geetanjali in telugu).
  
  Are'nt there any worthy albums these days? Whenever i hear a En Swaase kaatre or a Dum Dum Dum or a Parthale Paravasam or a Iruvar, one can see the effort put into it by the MD, musicians and the singers. As long as people keep experimenting with songs like Niram Prithu, Ennule ennule, Adhisayam thirumanam, Kadhal Vanoli or that version of Endaro Mahaanu Bahvulu from malayalam movie Devadoothan, I would not worry about the musical quality degrading. True, (some of)these songs may not be commercial successes, but then atleast it shows Mds once in a while try go beyond the normal. And suppose if it really gets worse, film music is not the only music.
  (And please do not view this post as a excercise in this man versus that man, rather as the presence of some elements in this time and that time. I have cited the songs I am familiar with.)
  
  
• From: st (@ 212.153.190.3) on: Thu Mar 6 04:56:46 EST 2003
  
  I dont know which Sam you are, but the above one was real good.
  In short i liked the foll 2 things u said,
  >>improper to compare a classic from any time with a dud from the other >protesting the snobbish disposition of praising the Past at the expense of Present........ and vice-versa <<
  
  

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