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ARR's song making style

Topic started by kiru (@ 192.138.149.4) on Tue Oct 3 18:56:17 EDT 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

I'd appreciate if knowledgeable people can contribute to this thread, hopefully explaining musical techniques in a form that everybody can understand

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Athi (@ 129.188.33.221) on: Thu Oct 5 17:09:15 EDT 2000
  
  Looks like ARR is getting lots of marketing
  for his music in this page with people
  delving deep into everything he has done.
  ARR will love it going by the amount of
  publicity he gets for his music.
  
  I wanted to make a clarification about
  the traditional song structure and IR's
  usage. To my best music discerning ability,
  IR is the one who introduced the concept of
  variety of interludes in the songs which gave
  freshness to everything he composed. He also
  reduced the length of the song which MSV and
  the likes were composing before but gave more
  variety of music(instruments) in the song.
  So to classify IR's music as old fashioned
  just to conclude ARR tried something new,
  doesn't make any sense to me and looks like
  a marketing gimmick.
  
  Athi
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.149.4) on: Thu Oct 5 17:50:50 EDT 2000
  
  Athi lets keep comparisons out of this thread. Even though Fan gave out some opinions, I think, he did not actually cross the line.
  BTW, I'll post the summary as an URL soon.
  
  
• From: fan (@ 216.190.255.35) on: Thu Oct 5 18:02:52 EDT 2000
  
  This thread talks about "ARR song making style"
  we did not waste our time by discussing "good , bad and ugly", but there comes the spoil sport, ... kiru and other I am afraid this thread is going to have its end very soon. Thanks for the healthy discussions we had till date.
  
  
• From: rjay (@ 208.51.40.112) on: Fri Oct 6 11:42:22 EDT 2000
  
  Kiru,
  
  Let me hasten to clarify that the self referential start "Udayamagum velaiyil" was
  thrust in by me, not Udhaya. It seemed to fit
  the situation and also present his name,
  so I forced it in there.
  Sorry for the digression.
  
  RJAY
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 63.89.188.114) on: Fri Oct 6 13:09:01 EDT 2000
  
  fan, Kiru,
  Thanks for the plug.
  
  rjay,
  Thanks for the clarification.
  
  To all except one poster here:
  Let's continue to move on with this topic, please. Detractors should not be allowed to dictate the flow of this thread. Any time a personal opinion is shared in public there will be reactions and most of the time these reactions will be off-kilter, so let's ignore and move on.
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.149.4) on: Fri Oct 6 13:30:34 EDT 2000
  
  Udhaya..thanks for taking the humor in the correct vein :-)
  I have summarized the discussions in -
  http://members.tripod.com/kbkaran/arr.html
  
  If there are any inaccuracies/subjectiveness :-) in it please let me know.
  
  
• From: fan (@ 216.190.255.35) on: Fri Oct 6 13:36:57 EDT 2000
  
  Ok, Lets move on
  I was hearing the song "athini" in Thenali.
  The songs does not follow the regular format.
  things change a lot., Also at the starting of the song he has used "Didjeridu" , this is an australian instrument. did any one notice it. ?
  
  Percussion sounds are very tight, merges very well the chorused guitar.
  
  The bridge to the humming in the pallavi is interersting and this moves to something new kinds of chorus (Kiliye Kiliye)
  and comes back to pallavi.
  Pallavi sounds like "Ahir bharavi" like raga.
  
  Saranam:
  Raga changes to Panthuvarali like raga,
  
  Try to find the sounds and placement in this song.
  
  HH has tried hard to sing, could have been avoided. we need to see how this is shot, imho it is really a grand arrangement.
  
  
• From: Nishanthi (@ 216.199.26.125) on: Fri Oct 6 13:48:34 EDT 2000
  
  Hey Guys,
  Don't U have any other work to do?
  ARR worked under IR initially. Now it is the time for ARR to become another IRR. We can't compare "Guru" and "Sishyan".
  
  Nishanthi
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 63.89.188.114) on: Fri Oct 6 13:59:13 EDT 2000
  
  Nishanthi,
  If your perception is clouded let me sound the fog horn for you, "this is a discussion forum". Naturally, we come here to discuss. If for you this topic isn't worth discussing, please tend to all the valuable work you must so obviously suffer from.
  
  
• From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.227) on: Fri Oct 6 14:35:37 EDT 2000
  
  Fan,
  Give your views on other songs too especially "swasame".
  
  Thanks,
  Trend
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.149.4) on: Fri Oct 6 14:46:46 EDT 2000
  
  I think new albums and stuff like that should be discussed in a separate thread. We want to 'dissect' any or typical ARR's songs here.
  
  
• From: fan (@ 216.190.255.35) on: Fri Oct 6 14:52:13 EDT 2000
  
  what kiru says is right, I dont intend to review, I tried to see what instruments he has used and how he used. Whats new to in the song to make it a hit. ?
  
  Trend: I will post a review (in reviews) as soon as i get the CD. I dont belive in real audio.
  
  
• From: rjay (@ 208.51.40.112) on: Fri Oct 6 17:14:35 EDT 2000
  
  Kiru
  
  The summary is good. I have two suggestions to
  improve it. Alongside the conclusions give the examples that led to the conclusion. For someone
  who reads the document the conclusions may not
  make sense without the details.
  
  Thanks
  RJAY
  
  
• From: rjay (@ 208.51.40.112) on: Fri Oct 6 17:15:59 EDT 2000
  
  The second suggestion is to mention the
  discussion participants.
  
  RJAY
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.149.4) on: Mon Oct 9 10:31:52 EDT 2000
  
  Rjay, thanks for taking a look at the summary (http://members.tripod.com/kbkaran/arr.html). I hope others do as well.
  Meanwhile, I can suggest some exercise for you guys - can we take a non-ARR song change it into an 'ARR' song by giving it his style of rhythm to it ?? This can be done in MIDI. Both MIDI versions should be made available for comparison.
  
  
• From: pg (@ 12.20.190.1) on: Mon Oct 9 11:20:37 EDT 2000
  
  kiru :
  
  there is a technical term for what you are suggesting. It is called 'remix'.
  
  :-)
  
  
• From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.230) on: Mon Oct 9 12:19:19 EDT 2000
  
  Kiru,
  
  How about "Vinnoodum Mugiloodum"?That should be fun!!!
  
  Trend
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 63.89.188.210) on: Mon Oct 9 12:34:13 EDT 2000
  
  can we take a non-ARR song change it into an 'ARR' song by giving it his style of rhythm to it?
  
  No, you can't. What you will come up with is your idea of an ARR song. By suggesting this you are putting forth the idea that ARR songs are wrought by sprinkling an existing traditional song with derivative rhythm loops. This would be an insult to almost any composer. It would end up sounding like what T.L. Magarajan did to some classic songs by applying computerized rhythm to it. Just awful.
  
  We can pick apart a song technically to understand the various ingredients. But to think that you can rebuild a song like ARR by using some base elements that he has...good luck.
  
  
• From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.227) on: Mon Oct 9 12:46:05 EDT 2000
  
  Hi Guys,
  
  In a few of ARR songs the pallavi just before the end of the song there is a delay between male and female voice.I liked that a lot esp. in "Theendai"(ESK) and "Kandukondain"(KK).
  
  Could anyone give more info on this?Like for example can this be done only for certain ragas?
  
  Which is the first song he tried this?
  
  Thanks,
  Trend
  
  
  
• From: rjay (@ 208.51.40.112) on: Mon Oct 9 13:35:33 EDT 2000
  
  Kiru, if that was so easy, many imitators of
  Raja and Rahman could be successful!
  
  Here are some of my thoughts:
  
  Emphasis on rhythm is just one of the aspects
  of Rahman's style. But any good creative artist
  (not necessarily music) constantly breaks his
  own rules. In fact, creativity itself is the opposite of repetition or mechanical functioning.
  During creation, an artist quickly becomes aware
  of the rote response and avoids it constantly.
  This alertness and trying to see the new every
  moment is what makes creative act so addictive.
  
  Having said that, there is nothing wrong in trying
  to ape a composers style. Most of us learn by
  aping the master's works. Claiming that the results would be like Rahman's may be the wrong
  thing to do.
  
  Srikanth has done some good re-arrangements of
  Raja's "Ilamai" and MSV's deivam thantha veedu.
  
  Deva tried to ape Rahman's style and did a good
  job on Aasai. Konja naal poru thalaiva is a neat
  Rahmanish interpretation of 'Varadappa Kanji
  varadhappa' mood!
  
  
  
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 63.89.188.210) on: Mon Oct 9 13:47:18 EDT 2000
  
  rjay,
  There's a difference between Srikanth re-arranging IR's tunes and Srikanth attempting to re-arrange a song as he believes IR would have. The former makes for a good experiment; the latter assumes that he knows IR's style inside out and can replicate it with ease. The latter is presumptuous and insulting.
  
  
• From: rjay (@ 208.51.40.112) on: Mon Oct 9 13:57:45 EDT 2000
  
  Udhaya, thanks for the distinction.
  
  Yes, that is the difference between adding
  my own ideas to go with a composers melody,
  versus putting on the shoes of a composer
  and thinking up ideas he would come up with.
  
  The second experiment may never predict a future
  song, but might create a song that sounds like
  the composer's tunes. Claiming that 'that is all
  to his style' is the insult.
  
  It is possible to create fake songs, it is like
  mimicrying M.N.Nambiar's voice saying 'Aaththa
  aadu valartha'. For a brief moment, you can
  create the illusion of the original composer's
  style. Ultimately it might have a comic effect.
  We have seen Shankar ganesh successfully create
  MSV'ish numbers like "Malai charalil" and later
  switch to Raja's style and make "Pattu vanna
  rojavaam".
  
  
• From: rjay (@ 208.51.40.112) on: Mon Oct 9 14:01:30 EDT 2000
  
  And if I may dare, I felt the famed "Ennai thalatta
  varuvalo" was a Rahman arrangement of Raja tune.
  Similarly the vande mataram from Bharathi.
  
  And Rahman often does fakes of his own work.
  Suttum vizhi chudarthan is an example.
  
  Someone showed Picosso one of his paintings
  and asked him "is this an original picasso or
  a fake?" He looked at it briefly and replied,
  "it is a fake" and added, "sometimes I paint
  fakes".
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.149.4) on: Mon Oct 9 14:02:47 EDT 2000
  
  Just hold guys (esp. Udhaya)..I am not saying one can replicate/duplicate ARR 100%. The idea is to understand the 'defining' characteristics of ARR's songs ONLY (pg..nAradar vElaiya ? :-) )
  (please read my summary which lists all that we have talked about ARR's style. So why would I misunderstand the rhythm ALONE is ARR's style).
  
  (I am into 'patterns' and thats the motive here).
  
  Well..I dont know much music technicalities but here are my observations ..correct me if I am wrong.
  1) ARR was the first to use 'synth drum' beats for slow/melody songs.
  2) Actually, he replaced the traditional percussion accompaniment with 'synth drum' as a standard practice.
  
  But then again this was/is a common practice in the POP genre.
  
  I know there are imitators (who are doing the above) of ARR and he is commerically successful and maintains his uniqueness because of his creative skills.
  
  
  
  
  

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