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ARR's song making style

Topic started by kiru (@ 192.138.149.4) on Tue Oct 3 18:56:17 EDT 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

I'd appreciate if knowledgeable people can contribute to this thread, hopefully explaining musical techniques in a form that everybody can understand

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: isai-rasigan (@ 208.142.210.30) on: Thu Oct 5 12:35:46 EDT 2000
  
  fan
  
  From your postings, I realise that Rahman takes more time to record the song than to conceive it. He spends more time on the 'sound' aspect of the song than the 'music' aspect of it. Am I right? I think that is the reason why his songs 'sound' new and fresh.
  
  BTW, IR used human voice for rhythym in 'raajaathi raaja un thanthirangkaL' (mannan). The sound 'thuk thu thu thuku thuk thuk' is a human sound.
  
  
• From: fan (@ 216.190.255.35) on: Thu Oct 5 12:43:53 EDT 2000
  
  isai-rasigan, that sounds more of a chours, in this you will not know it is a voice,this sounds like more like patch.
  
  Kiru, try to hear parthen rasithen "thinadhe" song, see how poorly the delay is handled, the delay does not go with the beat. Just there is delay thats all. The violin score played over the pallavi with keyboards spoil the clarity. They overlap percussion and voice, the score is ok (just ok) but the sound selection, placement balacing makes it sound bad.
  But the song improves a lot at the second saranam. Overall the song is better than deva's
  cacophony, novel attempt. Shanker Sings it well with enthu.
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 63.89.188.115) on: Thu Oct 5 12:47:13 EDT 2000
  
  Ever since ARR, the traditional sandham in TFM hasn’t been the same. Whether you find the sandham refreshing or undisciplined depends entirely on the boundaries you set for music. Personally, I welcome the fact that ARR blew the lid off the traditional sandham structure which had straight-jacketed TFM by his time. Before my previous statement brings in examples of exceptions to the sandham rule by everybody from G.Ramanathan to IR, let me assure everyone that I’m aware of the past. I still enjoy the tradional structure too since a good song is good song no matter how it's put together. When I say that ARR blew the lid off the traditional sandham, I’m not excluding others’ straying from the norm, I’m merely emphasizing the extent of innovation and experimentation he has brought to TFM. I will use the song “nenjinilae” from Uyirae as an example.
  
  nenjinilae nenjinilae
  nenjinilae nenjinilae oonjalae
  naanangaL en kannilae
  
  [what would you call the above three lines? It’s not the entire pallavi since that comes later in the song! Until someone clarifies it, I’ll call it a teaser pallavi, notice the sandham shift coming up]
  
  konjiri thanjik konjikkoa mundhiri muththoli sindhikkoa
  manjali varnach chundhari vaavae
  thaanginnakkath thakadhimiyaadum thanganilaavae hoay
  konjiri thanjik konjikkoa mundhiri muththoli sindhikkoa
  panjoli varnach chundhari vaavae
  thaanginnakkath thakadhimiyaadum thanganilaavae
  
  [The likes of the above stanza we’ve seen before. IR mastered its use with hundreds of folksy choruses ala “sembavala muththukkalae…” which precedes “Arachcha sandhanam” from Chinnathambi, but there’s yet another shift…]
  
  thangak kolusallae kolung kuyilallae maarana mayilallae hoay
  thangak kolusallae kolung kuyilallae maarana mayilallae
  
  [the above two lines bridge the chorus and the pallavi; the slow lines imperceptibly fade into the pallavi]
  
  nenjinilae nenjinilae oonjalae naanangaL en kannilae
  sivandhadhae en manjalae
  kalyaanak kalyaanak kanavu en ullae
  nenjinilae nenjinilae oonjalae naanangaL en kannilae
  sivandhadhae en manjalae
  kalyaanak kalyaanak kanavu en ullae
  nenjilae...oonjalae...
  
  [finally, the traditional pallavi!]
  
  oarap paarvai veesuvaan uyirin kayiril avizhumae
  oarap paarvai veesuvaan uyirin kayiril avizhumae
  sevvidhazh varudumboadhu thaegaththangam urugumae
  ulagin oasai adangumboadhu uyirin oasai thodangumae
  vaannilaa naanumae mugilizhuththuk kaN moodumae
  
  [the first traditional charanam!]
  
  (nenjinilae) [repeated pallavi to root listeners with it]
  
  haeyk kuruvaarik kiliyae kuruvaarik kiliyae
  kukkuru kurukuru koovik kurugik kunnimanaththai
  ooyal aadik kooduvagukkik koottu vizhikkinnae
  maaran ninnaik koogik kurugik koottu vizhikkinnae
  kukkuru kurukuru koovik kurugik kunnimanaththai
  ooyal aadik kooduvagukkik koottu vizhikkinnae
  maaran ninnaik koogik kurugik koottu vizhikkinnae
  
  [the above chorus is mind-blowing not only by the surprise it affords a trained ear, but because it’s different than the first chorus! But before you anticipate something else, the following bridge used before the first pallavi reappears]
  
  (thangak)
  
  [and brings us to the second charanam.]
  
  kungumam aen soodinaen koalamuththaththil kalaiyaththaan
  kooraippattu aen uduththinaen koodal pozhudhil kasangaththaan
  mangaik koondhal malargaL edharku kattilmaelae nasungaththaan
  dheepangaL anaippathae pudhiya porul naandhaedaththaan
  
  (nenjinilae) [repeat pallavi and repeat chorus after]
  
  What a spin ARR throws to what most MDs would have been happy with as a standard pallavi, charanam, pallavi, charanam scheme. This is why ARR is special. No, he doesn’t hit bulls-eye every time he experiments, but then you hit bulls-eye ever time only when your target is easy. ARR is always reaching and consistently fails here and there, but with each attempt he propels himself towards something new and along goes the willing listener.
  
  
• From: NaNbaN (@ 209.217.61.115) on: Thu Oct 5 12:47:30 EDT 2000
  
  Good Discussion.... Well I was very very curious how ARR scores his music. I tried to copycat his structure or formula or whatever in the piece I tried to compose(??). Let me know how it sounds.
  Then I will give my impression abt ARR and IR style.
  
  Copycat,
  NaNbaN
  
  **************************************
  You can find the music piece here
  http://members.nbci.com/vinayworld/
  ***************************************
  
  
• From: fan (@ 216.190.255.35) on: Thu Oct 5 12:51:29 EDT 2000
  
  isairasigan: A sound "sounds good" only when the score is good, else it is just a calling bell or cell phone tone. He does work on his score. Converting those raw sounds to music needs lot of creativity and talent.
  
  I tell this often to my fellow musicians, If tones and patches from a synth are misused, it is nothing more than programable calling bell. :).
  
  
  
• From: fan (@ 216.190.255.35) on: Thu Oct 5 13:00:26 EDT 2000
  
  U , Kizi.super example, I was looking for you from yesterday, this is one of best arr songs.
  very Well explained.
  
  (btw: for many who are not aware: Udhaya is wonderful lyric writer, he has written wonderful lyrics in our forth coming album.,
  one example: this song is about ilamai.
  "thAvi theeriyum meenAi kelu...valayai ninAithu vAdAthu..", and RajaG sung it with great emotion.
  )
  
  
• From: hari (@ 146.6.101.207) on: Thu Oct 5 13:16:54 EDT 2000
  
  Dear fan,
  
  Its unfortunate that u have jumped to the conclusion that I am biased, - a needless and baseless observation.
  
  I could easily make out a change in scale in Maanamadhura...Anyways, I wud like a comparison between the song i mentioned- kavidhai kaelungal and maanamadhura... The scale change in KK is absolutely imperceptible and perfect! And the scale change in MM ... well I realised it the moment the scale changed... If u are still convinced that I am biased, please ignore this posting.
  
  hari
  
  
• From: fan (@ 216.190.255.35) on: Thu Oct 5 13:30:46 EDT 2000
  
  Hari..
  Ok, i hear you, I am sorry.
  
  I happened to visit KL twin towers, people were telling me about the tower, it is worlds tallest etc etc. I have also been to Sears towers, chicago, there also people told it is worlds largest man reacheble tower bla bla...
  
  I cannot sit and argue with each of them saying sears towers is the tallest and twin tower is tallest, both are tall and they have good things in them. I admired both.
  
  The songs you have mentioned was good, there were more chords changes than scale change. I dont want to just blindly tell this is nothing etc, what IR did was novel interesting, at the same time what arr did, made me think, i admire both since the scale change technique was handled well by both.
  I dont want to discount arr just by saying ir has done this scale change in punnagai mannan so i cannot accept this, this is not proper, it is gimmick etc...bla blas...,
  
  A Msv fan will then tell what ir done is nothing as msv has done scale changes in AnbeVa itself.
  This is a never ending cycle.
  
  Franky arr did a scale change in "manamadurai"
  If i remember this song also bagged many awards.
  
  Instead of taking
  Aanthakalathu BA is better than current MBA
  
  Let us see how arr works, what are his good points, What pushed him to the top.
  I am sure we will get an answer very soon. Hope you understand me here.
  
  
• From: fan (@ 216.190.255.35) on: Thu Oct 5 13:37:54 EDT 2000
  
  Instead of taking
  typo read it is as intead of talking
  
  ...:)
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.149.4) on: Thu Oct 5 14:21:16 EDT 2000
  
  Udhaya that was very good. It looks like he wanted to do a two part charanams with the pallavi interspersed. It was a nice touch to give only part of the pallavi in the beginning.
  Well you were talking about sandhams but in the example you were explaining more about the format of the song. Maybe you were pointing out the sandhams in this song are different as well.
  
  I will add new 'sandham' and 'format' to the list of features of ARR's songs. Thiis is a good example of ARR's innovation but it would be beneficial to see what a 'typical' ARR song is like, IMHO.
  (I know Udhaya is a lyric writer thru his self-referential :-) song written for Ravi's tune).
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.149.4) on: Thu Oct 5 14:30:28 EDT 2000
  
  NanBan,
  You are exactly doing what I would have done if I had any little musical skills - make an imitation to show you understand the structure. I would like to hear more from you.
  Fan, see my ears are not that musical..but I think I get what you are trying to say about the thinnAdhE song. I can see its another rhythm based composition as well.
  
  
  
• From: NaNbaN (@ 209.217.61.115) on: Thu Oct 5 14:53:53 EDT 2000
  
  Thanx Kiru... but I know nothing in music, not even ABC's. I am just avid listener. Just tried use some common sense + ARR's Rythmic structure. I am seriously crippled by lack of knowledge in music to proceed further. I have some more pieces I will upload later.
  
  Copycat,
  NaNbaN
  
  
• From: hari (@ 128.83.59.128) on: Thu Oct 5 16:09:31 EDT 2000
  
  ok cool about that. I agree with u that harping on and on about the "good old days" is kind of.. a bad thing to do. Well,as to which is better, its a subjective thing. So the ideal thing is to comment on what somebody (in this thread- ARR) has done, without a suggestion of a comparison to former greats, and each "fan" can have his own opinions. Lets talk technical stuff.
  
  But its impossible to be ideal, so these comparisons, and notions (i think u r ARR-biased, and u think I am IR-biased) are inevitable. I am sorry to have brought up the issue of comparison in the first place.
  
  hari
  
  

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