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Would viswanathan-ramamurthy have shined in hindi film music?

Topic started by rs (@ 203.124.0.247) on Mon May 6 10:30:31 EDT 2002.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

The golden era of tfm must be the period when viswanathan-ramamurthy reigned supreme in the 1960's. Their songs have become immortal classics! Would they have shined in hindi film music, considering that they used a lot of hindustani ragas in their tamil film music? Just go to this website for a glowing commentary on their 1956 hindi film, Naya Aadmi:

http://members.tripod.com/~ATMJH/in4.html

Even though the songs in this film were well received, somehow they did not get any more opportunities in hindi films after this film. Would they have posed a formidable challenge to shankar-jaikishan in hindi films?
What do tfm surfers think?

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Srik (@ 208.51.40.110) on: Fri May 10 12:17:05 EDT 2002
  
  SL, I dont know if you heard this old hindi song
  Ja e ye A Ja e ye .. (i dont know the movie)
  msv has an opening pallavi lines in Thali bagyam (i think ),
  "enaku neeiym unakum nanum endrum kuzandai than"
  this movie is by R.C.Sakthi,was released (and vanished) in late 80's
  
  When asked about this MSV replied that it is something like 3+5=5+3.
  :)
  
  
• From: Srik (@ 208.51.40.110) on: Fri May 10 12:22:06 EDT 2002
  
  adding to sl's list of tamil to hindi export.
  RDB has used 1000'il orvan title theme music in SHAN theme music.
  
  SL, if possible if time permits, can you please write about, how msv was different from other composers of his time. Like his melodies, song structures, handling prewritten lyrics etc.
  Thanks.
  
  
• From: Sriram Lakshman (@ 64.105.35.40) on: Fri May 10 15:46:00 EDT 2002
  
  Srik, do not forget the famous 'muththu kuLikka vAreegaLA' from 'anubavi rAjA anubavi'. This was a fun song in HFM too where the entire pallavi was used as it is by RD Burman on the insistence of Mahmood, the comedian.
  
  
  
  
  
• From: Sriram Lakshman (@ 64.105.35.40) on: Sun May 12 04:52:14 EDT 2002
  
  OISG, 'o mehbooba o mehbooba' from Sangam ('64) by SJ has a melody flow , very similar to that of 'kaN padumE pirar kaN padumE' ('62) (by PBS)(kAththiruntha kaNgaL)of V-R. The pallavi starts and ends with the same note and the beat is the same. There is infact a pause after the word 'mehbooba' just like the pause after 'kaN padumE'. Interestingly, MSV composed 'kadavuL seitha pAvam' by TMS in 'nAdOdi' on the same lines as 'kaN padumE'.
  
  
• From: Sriram Lakshman (@ 64.105.35.40) on: Sun May 12 04:59:00 EDT 2002
  
  avr, 'bahu bEgum' a remake of 'pAsa malar' with a Lucknow-i backdrop ? I do not think so. Agreed 'bahu bEgum' has a terrific score, just like most movies that had Roshan as the MD and all his Muslim social movies.
  
  
  
• From: OISG (@ 193.188.97.152) on: Sun May 12 05:10:18 EDT 2002
  
  SL
  
  I can think of a Mahendra Kapoor song ( I think Biswajit was the actor) which was similar to "Unnaithan naan ariven ,mannavanae yaar arivar".
  
  Was Motor Sundaram pillai made in Hindi?Manme Muruganin is my fav.
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 68.51.203.216) on: Sun May 12 05:15:48 EDT 2002
  
  "ammavum neeye appavum neeye" from Kalathur Kannamma..I have heard the song as "twameva mata cha pitha twameva" in Hindi(the first two lines alone bear the similiarity tune-wise)..again not sure which version came out first or have they both been adapted from a common prayer song
  
  
• From: OISG (@ 193.188.97.152) on: Sun May 12 05:27:21 EDT 2002
  
  SL
  
  Apart from "Vanthavargal Vanga" & "Naatukulla Enakkoru" MSV has repeated the I line (Pallavi) in Mohana Punnagai.
  
  the song " Thennilangai Mangai,Vennilavin thangai"
  
  
• From: Sriram Lakshman (@ 64.105.35.40) on: Sun May 12 12:08:53 EDT 2002
  
  OSIG, the song you are talking about is 'tumhArA chAhnE wAlA khudA kI duniyA mein' composed by O.P.Nayyar, a late 60s-early 70s song.
  
  Vijay, 'pallANdu vAzhga', a MGR-ized version of 'dO AnkhEn bArah hAth' had KVM referring to Vasant Desai's original 'ae mAlik tErE bandhE hum' for his 'ondrE kulam endru pAduvOm'.
  
  
• From: sk (@ 137.132.3.7) on: Mon May 13 03:14:19 EDT 2002
  
  SL:
  
  Do you have Karthi's email address? I now have
  a good digital encoding of movie versions of the
  following three songs:
  
  chittukkuruvi muththam koduththu
  pArththa njAbagam illaiyO
  (Both are with the beginning music pieces.
  For those who doubt PS's ability to sing differently
  for different actresses, they only need to
  listen to these two great songs.)
  and, sonnadhu needhAnA.
  
  I want to send these to him. The movie versions
  are of a higher quality than the normal audio
  versions which we normally hear. (For example,
  the emotions felt in the movie version of
  sonnadhu needhAnA is much greater.)
  In those VR days were there separate recording sessions for the movie version and for the
  ordinary audio version?
  
  Earlier you mentioned mentioned about chorus singers,
  vocal harmony etc. Are these present in pArththa
  njAbagam illaiyO?
  
  
• From: Sriram Lakshman (@ 64.105.35.40) on: Mon May 13 03:32:56 EDT 2002
  
  SK, it is karti_ap@hotmail.com. adiyEnukkum anuppa vENdum.
  In 'pArththa njAbagam', it is not much, not half as much as it is in 'AdavaralAm' (karuppu paNam)
  , 'varavENdum oru pozhuthu' (kalaikkOyil)
  , 'suvai ethilE' (parakkum pAvai).
  
  The first 2 songs had TKR taking care of recording and you can notice the difference in quality of recording in the third song. The chorus part in 'varavENdum..' is so beautifully recorded, so subtle and haunting. This was more innovative in 'suvai ethilE' but lost out on the recording.
  
  
• From: sk (@ 137.132.3.7) on: Mon May 13 03:48:00 EDT 2002
  
  SL:
  
  I will get the mp3 files from home tomorrow and
  send it to you and Karthi. Are you at your usual
  hotmail address?
  
  
• From: Sriram Lakshman (@ 64.105.35.40) on: Mon May 13 03:58:41 EDT 2002
  
  Srikanth, MSV's composition style for pre-written lyrics....there are several facets to it apart from bringing out the meaning of the lyrics in a tune form. For instance,
  since OSIG has mentioned 'mOtor Sundaram pillai', let us consider the PBS-PS duet. The pallavi has a very short santham written by Kannadasan for both PBS and PS.
  PS : kAththiruntha kaNgaLE
  kathai aLantha nenjamE
  Asai ennum veLLamE
  pongi perugum uLLamE
  
  This pallavi is sung first time with variations/curves placed for the last words in every line thereby overriding the existing santham put in place by KD. Most composers would be happy with taking the existing santham along. The second time the pallavi is sung, the word 'uLLamE' acts almost as a conduit for PBS to start on his pallavi.
  
  kaNNireNdil veNNilA
  kathaigaL sollum peNNilA
  nAnirunthum neeyillA
  vAzhvil Ethu thEnila
  
  If you notice, the santham is the same as that for PS's part and most composers would compose the same tune. In this case, the tune is changed for PBS as if intending to convey a response rather than a begenning. This goes on till PBS sings the same pallavi in the tune PS sang her's !!!
  
  Another example for pallavi with different tunes for a KD song.
  
  PS's portion :
  poyilE piranthu poyilE vaLarntha pulavar perumAnE
  ummai purinthu koNdAL uNmai therinthu koNdAL intha poovayar kulamAthE
  
  This part itself has several sangathis and is sung atleast 3 times with variations and the last time, the word 'kulamAthE' is put through in such a way that the listener automatically expects a response from the male singer. The response is,
  
  poovilE piranthu poovilE vaLarntha poovayar kulamAthE
  unnai purinthu koNdAn uNmai therinthu koNdAn intha pulavar perumAnE
  
  This is in a different tune, befitting a response though most composers would be tempted to use the same tune as that for PS's part. The same words are then repeated in the tune that went with PS's part!!!
  
  There are far too many such songs by MSV, so many that it became a normal thing in MSV duets those days. There are several songs/duets with different tunes for the stanzas for the male and the female singer respectively.
  
  Composing tunes for KD's lyrics can be daunting because he is as unpredictable as unpredictability itself :). You could have crazy santhams like 'kaN mayyEnthum vizhiyAga....' , 2 liner stanzas like the ones in 'kamban EmAnthAn' or extremely short santhams but pregnant with great ideas.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• From: SL (@ 64.105.35.40) on: Mon May 13 04:08:19 EDT 2002
  
  SK, yes.
  
  
• From: G.Ragavan (@ 164.164.94.115) on: Mon May 13 09:27:25 EDT 2002
  
  I heard that MSV first refused to score music for Naalai Namathe with the fear of compulsion to reuse the same tunes which were super hit. How about the inspiration from hindi original? Can anyone post about this?
  
  
• From: OISG (@ 193.188.97.152) on: Mon May 13 10:36:12 EDT 2002
  
  None of the songs were inspired from YKB in Nalai namathe.
  
  1.Anbu Malargale - the PS version was soft but the TMS-SPB version had a better impact than Hindi.The song clearly expresses the feelings of urgency,extreme joy on reunion.
  
  2.Neela nayanagalil - An eyesore scene for this great song.The Hindi eqv was "churaliya".An absolute original Tamil song.Ofcourse the Hindi song wasn t an original!!
  
  3.Ennai vittal yearum - (oh!Mere Soni).Sorry the Hindi song is no match.As usual the scene is a "Midnight Masala"one.MSV would have attempted a RDB pattern for the pallvai (NOT THE TUNE).Prob a way to show "See!putting tunes like that of yours is easy!"
  
  4.Naan oru medai padagan - (aap ke kamre me koi!)
  Hindi version is better.No similarity in tune.
  
  5.Loving is game - (Lekaru hum) -Same as -4- above
  
  6.But the best song was not part of the film "Kadhal enbathu kaviyam" is easily the best among the 12.
  
  
  
• From: Srik (@ 209.130.217.102) on: Mon May 13 12:43:24 EDT 2002
  
  Balaji apporached MSV for Viduthalai, tamil remake of Q'rbani. He forced MSV to use the hindi songs,as they were very popular then. Though msv was not that busy at that time, Simply Msv did not accept the offer just for the reason he was asked to copy/adapt hindi songs. He told Balaji that he would give better songs. However Balaji did not agree he opted Chandrabose, who was forced to copy some of the songs. Before this Msv was the MD for most of Balaji's movies.
  
  
• From: G.Ragavan (@ 164.164.94.115) on: Tue May 14 00:39:06 EDT 2002
  
  OISG, "Kaathal Enpathu Kaaviyamanal" is there in the movie. I had seen that. Wonderful song. But picturization with MGR. :-(
  
  
• From: OISG (@ 193.188.97.152) on: Tue May 14 03:50:21 EDT 2002
  
  GR I have seen the movie 4-5 times but never seen the song.
  
  Even for "Engirutho vanthal" MSV used new tamil tunes for the popular "Khilona" songs."Ore Padal" and "Naan unnai" are great tunes.Even the Sakunthalam dance drama was fresh.
  
  When Balaji remade Jani mera naam as Raja ,here again none of the tunes were imported.
  
  "Irandil ondru" ,"Gangayile odam illayo","Nee Vara vendum" and "Kalyana ponnu" were much better than JMN songs.
  
  

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