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IR or ARR

Topic started by M.Anand (@ ihproxy1.proxy.lucent.com) on Tue Jan 18 01:03:04 EST 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

hi all, I am Anand from bangalore and a new visitor to the tfm page. I am a great fan of both ARR and IR. I browsed through all the earlier threads on ARR and IR. It seems to me that there are quite a few anti ARRs out here.

Let me tell you something about IRs music. IRs music became popular and sounded different because he tried to bring in a westernization of Carnatic ragas in his songs. Even a dappanguthu was in Lathaangi or sivaranjani. That actually made the difference. Otherwise he is no great MD. One might argue that such a westernization or incorporation of a carnatic raga in a dappanguthu or jazz is something that demands great applause. But IR doesn't deserve that because, if u say u are tuning a song in a particular raagam, you have to bring out the nuances, the laya and bhaava of the raagam in to the song. Just traversing the swaras in the raagam here and there does not mean that u have tuned a song in that raagam. Ilayaraaja has done just that, a mere traversal through the swaras. In many places, there were apaswaras also. ARR has tuned very few songs based on Carnatic ragas but they were classics. For example Mettu podu in Anjali is a beautiful song in Ananda Bhairavi. He has brought out every nuance of the raagam in that song. Minsaara Kanna in padaiyappa is an excellent piece in vasantha. En mel vizhunda mazhai tuliye is again a beautiful piece in kaapi. A real mix of the east and west. That is what u call fusion. Ilayaraaja boasts of having composed songs in rare raagas like chala nattai, kanakangi etc. For example pani vizhum malar vanam in chala nattai is again a pure note traversal. There was no attempt to bring out the nuances in the raaga. So IR knew how to make songs sound good but ARR gives a fine polish to each and every one of his songs. IR composed music for 700 odd films. Hey Ram is his 785th film. Considering 7 songs per movie, he has tuned almost 5500 songs. Huge number indeed but hardly 5% of those songs are listenable others are 100% pure junk. But 99.9% of ARRs songs are listenable and they are also good numbers. What do you say about this?

Regards,
Anand

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: rajaG (@ kcecfp02.sprint.com) on: Wed Feb 16 12:13:30 EST 2000
  
  This from a South India who lived all his life in North India:
  
  1. There is a perception that South Indians lead a simpler life style than North Indians.
  2. As an extension of item 1. above, in some shape or form, South Indians receive lesser compensation than their North Indian counter parts. This could be consequence of a combination of a) an improper extension of "pOdhum endra manamEy pon seiyum marundhu" b) 'serious under-cutting' of prices by competing south Indians c) the glamour and 'chabalam' of national recognition and d) incorrect comparison with prevailing prices in the 'only south Indian' markets.
  
  3. ARR is probably the first South Indian who has broken this barrier and is kicking-butt in terms of prices, recognition etc. etc.
  
  4. I strongly feel that he is a pioneer for the SI arts to break the 'equal commercial value' barrier with NI arts. I am all for strongly rallying behind him and others following his foot-steps and making SI the true cultural and 'commercial cultural' capital India.
  
  5. My dream will be when Deva beats the crap out of the Anu Maliks, Anand Milinds, Nadeem Shravans in terms of product roll out, prices, and delivery. Let's face it - within the genre of 'only copied songs', Deva is the arguably the best there is now
  
  
• From: thathuvavaathi (@ inehou-pxy05.compaq.com) on: Wed Feb 16 12:35:03 EST 2000
  
  Well said rajaG ! :-))
  
  Sanu claims he refused to sing for A R Rehman
  
  Yeah Right !! paada mudiyaadhunnu Shanu-dhaa (a.k.a. Modern-age Moookesh :) sonnadhunaala ARR-ukku oru maasam thookkamE varalaiyaam ;-))
  
  Digression : AFAIK,
  * Kumar Sanu has sung only one song for AR Rahman 'mil gayi mil gayi'
  * Malasia Vasudevan has sung only one song for AR Rahman. That is the CHORUS 'hilpO rE hilpO rE', in the song 'poo pookkum Osai adhai kEtkadhaan aasai' :-))
  
  yaarai enga vaikkaNum-nu ARR-ukku nallaavE therinjirukku ! ;-)))
  
  
• From: bb (@ masur.crhc.uiuc.edu) on: Wed Feb 16 13:00:35 EST 2000
  
  MV has sung for ARR in kizhakku cheemaiyilE.
  
  
• From: Gentle (@ mdu-d1.chn.vsnl.net.in) on: Wed Feb 16 13:03:55 EST 2000
  
  I think Mr.Anand needs to buy a hearing aid before he listens to songs.He has written the comedy of the millenium that 95% of IR's songs are junk.What a great comedian(Anand)!!!!!!!!!
  
  
• From: Ramki (@ ws122.telsoft.net) on: Wed Feb 16 13:05:08 EST 2000
  
  one more MV_ARR-Monalisa(Mr Romeo)
  
  
• From: pg (@ gate02.merck-medco.com) on: Wed Feb 16 13:14:14 EST 2000
  
  Malaysia Vasudevan has sung one song for ARR in Mr.Romeo : a great pepsi/gypsi/mixie song by the great diamundu.
  
  
• From: paamaran (@ tog-wakko1b.prognet.com) on: Wed Feb 16 13:55:24 EST 2000
  
  MV has also sung a song in Kizhaku Seemayilae for ARR
  
  
• From: siva (@ klj-228-20.tm.net.my) on: Wed Feb 16 15:03:36 EST 2000
  
  malaysia vaudevan also another song in mr.romeo-monalisa...
  
  
• From: Hari (@ 202.141.26.182) on: Wed Feb 16 15:44:38 EST 2000
  
  dear all
  
  edho oru threadla oru anbar sonnadha nyabagam-
  
  ARR said in an interview to Hindu that the Hindi film Pukar needed a 100 piece orchestra for every scene. Namma anbar had wondered whether it was in response to IR's 90 piece symphonic style recording for Hey Ram....
  
  Tell u what, I think he(our anbar) is 100% right. Pukar padam paarthuviitu ippo dhan thirumbi varen. If the statement attributed to ARR is authentic... then it is the single biggest piece of BullS**t I have heard in a long long time....
  Actually, I felt the music was pretty ok otherwise ( i mean the songs) BGM was, to put it mildly, pretty ordinary...
  
  ps - Titlesla re-recording credits were given to some other person (Not Sabesh-Murali, someone else, I forgot) does this mean background score was done by him/them?
  
  hari
  
  
• From: Gyani (@ iq-ind-as002-54.iquest.net) on: Wed Feb 16 17:12:52 EST 2000
  
  Why Rehaman has an advantage over Ilayaraja in North India? The name. Rehaman sounds North Indian. When Kamalahassan from South went to North India to get accepted he changed it to
  Kamal Hassan. This argument may be trivial but it makes a big difference for North Indians
  
  
• From: IQ (@ nas-98-145.stockton.navinet.net) on: Wed Feb 16 17:42:02 EST 2000
  
  PG:
  
  
  Vairamuthu yeppo saar avalavvu talented aanaru?
  "a great pepsi/gypsi/mixie" song was penned by Vaali! :)
  
  
• From: chidams (@ 38.23.1.248) on: Wed Feb 16 18:41:04 EST 2000
  
  MV has sung "Vetri Kodi Kattu" of "Padaiyappa" [I saw this in the audio-cassette cover]
  In any case, MV was never that popular
  
  
• From: suresh (@ dedicated-149.chn.vsnl.net.in) on: Wed Feb 16 23:57:52 EST 2000
  
  i'm not happy with MV's name being hauled over the coals as a side-act to some frantic kumar sanu bashing.. he's sung many good songs, some of IR's early nos. were just great IMO. 5 samples:
  
  1 kovil mani osai - k.pogum rayil
  2 alli thandha bhoomi - nandu
  3 aayiram malargale - pudhiya vaarppugal
  4 vaa vaa vasanthame - pudhukkavidhai
  5 poongaathu thirumbuma - mudhal muriyadhai
  
  thathuvavaathi??s insinuation -
  "yaarai enga vaikkaNum-nu ARR-ukku nallaavE therinjirukku ! ;-)))" is extremely funny to say the least.
  
  
• From: NOV (@ ptl-cache6.jaring.my) on: Thu Feb 17 01:20:59 EST 2000
  
  Suresh - I agree with you 100%.
  In fact I was so upset to see MV being bashed, that it propmted this set of JFF:
  
  http://newtfmpage.com/forum/jff.html
  
  :-))
  
  
• From: Jagdish. M (@ gw-nl1.philips.com) on: Thu Feb 17 02:06:43 EST 2000
  
  chidams,
  
  "Vetri kodi kattu" song was rendered by Sriram(new face). Somehow the audio cassette cover carries the name of MV. but anybody could easily make out that it is'nt MV's voice.
  
  
• From: prabhakar (@ 202.144.10.93) on: Thu Feb 17 03:21:35 EST 2000
  
  have anyone of you listened to the songs of pukar. The so called smashhit song of pukaar 'suntha hai' is a excellent example of FUSION MUSIC which shows all the nuances that can be brought about by ARR. Yes. It is a fusion of Vennilave Vennilave from Minsara kanavu and can you believe it . He has used the song Inji Iduppalaga from Devar Magan.
  
  Hats off to ARR for giving this tremendous fusion and hats off for all the people out there who will give credit to whatever crap that fellow churns out.
  
  
• From: chidams (@ 38.23.1.248) on: Thu Feb 17 13:11:54 EST 2000
  
  Thanks Jagdish for clearing the doubt.
  
  From the articles I have read, it seems to me that IR is a very devotional man with clean habits. Also he is gifted, to be able to compose the way he does. However, he was not marketed well. Even now, when someone asks him if there is any plans to record his earlier LP-based songs in digital format, he is not sure. Whereas, ARR is very good at digital quality sound. [I really hate the sound quality of the "Deiveeha Raagam" of "Ullaasa Paravaigal" from even CD; so is, "Kaatril" of "Johny"; it feels like I am hearing these from underpowered-radio-station in SW band radio]
  
  ARR seems to be marketing as per the taste of the people. He is very conscious about the fact that the songs should reach everyone. He is able to reach even north-indians with music like "Taal". [Eventhough the north-indians usually say that all the south-indian songs look the same, they are able to accept the "Taal" songs as non-south-indian album [Though we may say that all hindi-songs are similar; which is true to a great extent; and, we don't care to prove south-indian-music is not similar, to the north-indians]
  
  And ARR seems to be quite modest and says he has become more devotional by seeing IR.
  
  Also, there is a generation gap.
  
  MSV time was when the melody and mainly the lyrics ruled. IRs during 75-90s was when the music slowly taking over [some of Vaali's and GangaiAmaran's not-so-meaningful songs were hits]. But still, the songs were suitable for the situation in the movie. Now, the younger gen just cares about some catchy tune. They are even OK with MTV-style albums, which do not have a long-lasting life. In movies like "Jodi" the songs were not at all suitable for situation in the movie [songs like "Velli malarae", "Jeeva"]. And slowly, it looks like indian movies will become like English movies with no songs [and the songs coming separately from each artist as albums].
  
  So, this is the age of fast life. IR has not given decent albums like old times. Occassionaly, there is a song like "Ennai Thaalatta Varuvaalo" of "KM". Maybe, he does not want to give very good numbers and spoil the chances of his sons, who don't seem to be as gifted as IR.
  
  Somehow, there is a tradition in the TFM that, when there is a good new MD, the old MD just gives the way. This happened to MSV; after IR came, he slowly stopped producing good songs.
  
  I guess, this is the "Circle of life"
  
  
• From: pg (@ gate02.merck-medco.com) on: Thu Feb 17 13:42:09 EST 2000
  
  IQ :
  vAli kku diamundu kuraindhavar illai :
  
  pepsi/gypsy/mixie is equalled by another great oorvasi/pharmacy song.
  
  sabhash sariyAna pOtti !
  
  

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